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A new way of identifying targets


Guest Knightrider
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Guest Knightrider

Instead of casting our eyes at various Premiership sides and certain European players and going "he's a good player, I like him", it is about time some logic went into our transfer plans. It has concerned me for some time now that we are always being linked with the same old players, like the Distins, the Bridges and the Upsons, this shows a real lack of thinking in regards to our transfer policy, as if any player will do if they are good enough, are a big enough name or have a big enough reputation. This type of transfer policy has meant many arrivals failing and a lot of wasted money. Time to change our ways.

 

Take Duff for example:

 

Good player? (tick)

Available? (tick)

Big reputation? (tick)

 

Lets buy him then.

 

Now had the club asked themselves some questions such as:

 

Do we really need him? (no)

Is he a player on the up? (no)

Is he injury free? (no)

Will his signing bring out the best in N'Zogbia? (no)

Is midfield a priority? (no)

 

Lets not buy him then... should have been the answer.

 

It is easy to identify a good player, and we are very good at doing the obvious, but it is far from easy buying the RIGHT players and that is why we have failed in the transfer market since SBR's time, who in Robert and Bellamy to use an example, bought the right players, for all the right reasons, despite questions marks over the latter's ability (6 goals in a relegation season for Coventry) and the former's reputation (no prior Premiership experience).

 

SBR bought Bellamy for a reason, to inject pace into the forward line, to provide a runner to Shearer's line leading and headingh prowess, he bought Robert to give the team some balance and shape, for his crossing ability, to turn Shearer's heading abilities into goals.

 

We need to follow those simple rules of buying the right players.

 

Today:

 

Off the pitch

 

NUFC has financial troubles

Has fallen in stature

Is in the middle of a rebuilding period

 

On the pitch

 

Small squad

Unbalanced squad

Lacks ball players

Injury problems

 

So we need to factor in all of the above and marry that to our transfer policy, meaning we only buy players:

 

A) We can afford (fees and wages)

B) Who have good fitness records (Unlike the Duffs, Owens)

C) Who aren't over the hill (we are in the middle of a rebuilding process, we need players who can do a job for us tomorrow, as well as today so to speak)

D) Who can play the ball (i.e. decent passers of the ball)

E) For weak positions (defence and not LW)

F) Who can play in a number of positions (due to our financial restraints/small squad)

G) Who are hungry and can grow with us (players not here for a payday or because they've fallen on hardtimes themselves)

 

This new way would rule out a Michael Owen, a Damien Duff, an Albert Luque, a Jean-Alain Boumsong, an Olivier Bernard, a Antoine Sibbierski.

 

We must also when identifying new players, factor in where they will fit into the team, how they will work in the team and whether they will be a good partner for certain players. If Defoe was made available for £5m tomorrow, I'm in no doubt that we'd try to buy him, despite him being a carbon copy of Martins and Owen, i.e. small, pacey and one-dimensional. We need to cut that out and not buy players because they are good players or because they are available, but because they are right for us and represent good value for money, short and long-term.

 

We should never deviate from these plans, and would be more successful in the transfer market if we had such plans. It isn't rocket science Freddy and Glenn.

 

A good example of a right player for NUFC would be a Distin (ironically), free or cheap, can play in a number of positions, will be here for 3-4 years, can pass the ball, is experienced and would strengthen a weak position.

 

An example of the wrong player for NUFC would be a Defoe, expensive, similar to what we have, is one-dimensional and would not strengthen attack (he'd just be making up the numbers).

 

Another example of the wrong player for NUFC would be a Woodgate, injury prone and expensive (wages).

 

Bridge too, injury prone, on the way down, would be expensive (wages) - so no, despite being a good player. So is Duff, so is Martins, so is Luque, all wrong players for us.

 

We must also do our homework regarding players' characters as we've had our problems on that front over the years.

 

Also, we need to recognise our strengths and weaknesses, which SBR and KK were very good at. Compromise defence for attack for examples where full-backs are concerned, buy good attacking full-backs, you can drill defence, but attack isn't so easy, if a player just doesn't have the technique or skills in that area.

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Guest Knightrider

maybe add does he fit in with our system/preferred formation

 

Aye that anarl, which is why I question the signings of Martins, who despite his succcess, I think was bought purely because we were desperate (having failed with others) and he was available. Now we must buy players who can work with Martins, so no defenders that are crap on the ball, no point kicking it long to him and Owen...

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I agree with a lot but is Bridge really injury prone? Before he went to Chelsea im sure he held a record for not missing a game over a long period and since he has been at Chelsea he has had a couple of injuries but has mainly been kept out as Jose doesn't seem to rate him as a first choice player. Would love Bridge here personally.

 

Distin would be a good signing, he isn't anything close to world class but he is a decent defender who can lead the back line, he has pace and as far as im aware doesnt miss too many games. He can also bring the ball out from the back which is something we are desperate for and can cover a number of positions. We should definitely be in for him and Ben Haim who although not as commanding is a good defender and can cover across the back 4 well and has a lot of years ahead of him in the game.

 

Striker is a funny one for me, IF and its a big one Owen stays fit then we arent going to be able to afford a striker who will oust him or Martins (imo) but as said its a big if. We should look at Viduka, unlike the defence we have a little more breathing space in attack so can afford to gamble on a player who has shown some injury problems in the past and Viduka has plenty of ability plus he is the type of player who I think would work well with either Martins or Owen. Wouldn't cost much either (just a signing on fee and maybe a fair wage).

 

We certainly need to concentrate on defence as a priority, at least one commanding centre half and a full back either side. The full backs also need to be quality and not just someone who will "do a job". For too long we have shot ourselves in the foot by not getting the backline sorted and just try and get by on the attack making up for defensive errors.

 

We could also do with another creative player in midfield, Giles Barnes would be worth looking at as he is very versatile, young and would add a bit more height to the team.

 

This all said it will cost a lot of money to correct everything that is wrong with the squad in one summer but we certainly need to start making sure we have enough players in the squad to put out a first choice 11 who will challenge for European places before we start bringing in cover (like Duff).

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Guest JamesD

yeah, but i think we would want better defenders who don;t play the longball regardless of whether or not we bought martins.

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yeah, but i think we would want better defenders who don;t play the longball regardless of whether or not we bought martins.

 

the defenders are blantantly being told to play the long ball, not as if the midfield (without Emre) can come up with anything more creative

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Our scouting system is non-existant, let's face it, which is why we tend to get linked with the middle-of-the-road Premiership players, even those who are good players, ones like Bridge, Barton, Upson, Distin, SWP, Ashton, Defoe etc etc.

 

None were cheap but why can't we find players like Evra, Heinze and Vidic? Looking to the Premiership will always double the value of the player, but we don't seem able to look abroad with any sort of consistency at all, happy to make do with looking at the "best" the Premiership has to offer, like our bids for Zat Knight and Huth last summer - whoopee.

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Guest Knightrider

I agree with a lot but is Bridge really injury prone? Before he went to Chelsea im sure he held a record for not missing a game over a long period and since he has been at Chelsea he has had a couple of injuries but has mainly been kept out as Jose doesn't seem to rate him as a first choice player. Would love Bridge here personally.

 

Distin would be a good signing, he isn't anything close to world class but he is a decent defender who can lead the back line, he has pace and as far as im aware doesnt miss too many games. He can also bring the ball out from the back which is something we are desperate for and can cover a number of positions. We should definitely be in for him and Ben Haim who although not as commanding is a good defender and can cover across the back 4 well and has a lot of years ahead of him in the game.

 

Striker is a funny one for me, IF and its a big one Owen stays fit then we arent going to be able to afford a striker who will oust him or Martins (imo) but as said its a big if. We should look at Viduka, unlike the defence we have a little more breathing space in attack so can afford to gamble on a player who has shown some injury problems in the past and Viduka has plenty of ability plus he is the type of player who I think would work well with either Martins or Owen. Wouldn't cost much either (just a signing on fee and maybe a fair wage).

 

We certainly need to concentrate on defence as a priority, at least one commanding centre half and a full back either side. The full backs also need to be quality and not just someone who will "do a job". For too long we have shot ourselves in the foot by not getting the backline sorted and just try and get by on the attack making up for defensive errors.

 

We could also do with another creative player in midfield, Giles Barnes would be worth looking at as he is very versatile, young and would add a bit more height to the team.

 

This all said it will cost a lot of money to correct everything that is wrong with the squad in one summer but we certainly need to start making sure we have enough players in the squad to put out a first choice 11 who will challenge for European places before we start bringing in cover (like Duff).

 

Good post Jon.

 

Regarding injury prone players, I now wouldn't take a chance, same with players with attitude issues which would rule out the likes of Ashton who I rate and Collins John who I think would make a decent squad player, we have to be tough on these issues for me.

 

I don't think it would take a lot of money to correct many of the issues either, we just have to be a bit more creative and sensible. By using the loan system/bosmans and by buying versatile players we can kill a few birds with one stone so to speak and we've proved before if you buy the right players (Bellamy and Robert for example) even at decent money and at the expense of one or two side issues, an average team can be transformed into a potent one with potential.

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Guest Knightrider

Our scouting system is non-existant, let's face it, which is why we tend to get linked with the middle-of-the-road Premiership players, even those who are good players, ones like Bridge, Barton, Upson, Distin, SWP, Ashton, Defoe etc etc.

 

None were cheap but why can't we find players like Evra, Heinze and Vidic? Looking to the Premiership will always double the value of the player, but we don't seem able to look abroad with any sort of consistency at all, happy to make do with looking at the "best" the Premiership has to offer, like our bids for Zat Knight and Huth last summer - whoopee.

 

Aye, sad isn't it. There are some decent players to be had at the basement of the French, Dutch and  German leagues and some good players in Spain too, not household names, but good players with a grasp of the basics, who could develop into better players. We should never limit ourselves to the Premiership. Indeed we should look further down to the Championship and League 1 and 2 as there are some good players kicking about down there too.

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Guest JamesD

yeah, but i think we would want better defenders who don;t play the longball regardless of whether or not we bought martins.

 

the defenders are blantantly being told to play the long ball, not as if the midfield (without Emre) can come up with anything more creative

i think a lot of that has to do with the lack of creativity from both butt and parker in the middle. usually when emre comes back, our style of play is very different. more passing on the ground and less longball.

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Guest Knightrider

yeah, but i think we would want better defenders who don;t play the longball regardless of whether or not we bought martins.

 

the defenders are blantantly being told to play the long ball, not as if the midfield (without Emre) can come up with anything more creative

i think a lot of that has to do with the lack of creativity from both butt and parker in the middle. usually when emre comes back, our style of play is very different. more passing on the ground and less longball.

 

The problem still exists. Because we have no ball player at the back Emre will drop deep to collect the ball, meaning we get outnumbered in midfield, or the midfield drop deeper to condense the gap between themselves and Emre, which isolates the forward line. Tactics are part of the fault, but the abilities of those at the back are the main factors.

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Disagree with the basic premise of the OP that we don't do the things advocated anyway, simply that the manager has different opinions to you and isn't in possession of a crystal ball.

 

This stood out for me though:

 

Will his signing bring out the best in N'Zogbia? (no)

 

Are you actually coaching kids? What are you teaching them? If there's a player in your position who's better/ more experienced than you ignore them and don't try to learn anything from them. If possible move to a new team where you're automatic first choice with no competition so you can play in as many games as possible, at least 50-60 a season? Worrying.

 

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I agree with a lot but is Bridge really injury prone? Before he went to Chelsea im sure he held a record for not missing a game over a long period and since he has been at Chelsea he has had a couple of injuries but has mainly been kept out as Jose doesn't seem to rate him as a first choice player. Would love Bridge here personally.

 

Distin would be a good signing, he isn't anything close to world class but he is a decent defender who can lead the back line, he has pace and as far as im aware doesnt miss too many games. He can also bring the ball out from the back which is something we are desperate for and can cover a number of positions. We should definitely be in for him and Ben Haim who although not as commanding is a good defender and can cover across the back 4 well and has a lot of years ahead of him in the game.

 

Striker is a funny one for me, IF and its a big one Owen stays fit then we arent going to be able to afford a striker who will oust him or Martins (imo) but as said its a big if. We should look at Viduka, unlike the defence we have a little more breathing space in attack so can afford to gamble on a player who has shown some injury problems in the past and Viduka has plenty of ability plus he is the type of player who I think would work well with either Martins or Owen. Wouldn't cost much either (just a signing on fee and maybe a fair wage).

 

We certainly need to concentrate on defence as a priority, at least one commanding centre half and a full back either side. The full backs also need to be quality and not just someone who will "do a job". For too long we have shot ourselves in the foot by not getting the backline sorted and just try and get by on the attack making up for defensive errors.

 

We could also do with another creative player in midfield, Giles Barnes would be worth looking at as he is very versatile, young and would add a bit more height to the team.

 

This all said it will cost a lot of money to correct everything that is wrong with the squad in one summer but we certainly need to start making sure we have enough players in the squad to put out a first choice 11 who will challenge for European places before we start bringing in cover (like Duff).

 

Good post Jon.

 

Regarding injury prone players, I now wouldn't take a chance, same with players with attitude issues which would rule out the likes of Ashton who I rate and Collins John who I think would make a decent squad player, we have to be tough on these issues for me.

 

I don't think it would take a lot of money to correct many of the issues either, we just have to be a bit more creative and sensible. By using the loan system/bosmans and by buying versatile players we can kill a few birds with one stone so to speak and we've proved before if you buy the right players (Bellamy and Robert for example) even at decent money and at the expense of one or two side issues, an average team can be transformed into a potent one with potential.

 

Quality players on loan is a good way to cover positions while you have other priorities. There are a good number of players avaible for free this summer who would improve our squad and some who would improve our first 11 and although they may get better offers we should be at least be making an effort to bring them in. One problem with Roeder is that he comes across as someone who is told no or isn't given a completely positive reception he gives up and moves on then given the constraints he puts on himself he quickly runs out of targets and we are left with what we have. He needs to have the bottle and grit to keep trying for his target or at least not restrict himself so much. 

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Guest Knightrider

Disagree with the basic premise of the OP that we don't do the things advocated anyway, simply that the manager has different opinions to you and isn't in possession of a crystal ball.

 

This stood out for me though:

 

Will his signing bring out the best in N'Zogbia? (no)

 

Are you actually coaching kids? What are you teaching them? If there's a player in your position who's better/ more experienced than you ignore them and don't try to learn anything from them. If possible move to a new team where you're automatic first choice with no competition so you can play in as many games as possible, at least 50-60 a season? Worrying.

 

 

Fair enough, but if we do indentify players that way, Duff sure is an odd signing, as are numerous others. I think you know deep down that there is an inherent flaw in our policy and before anyone starts, I'm not having a go at the club here either, signing the right players is damn hard but I can't help feel we don't exactly help ourselves or do ourselves any favours because of our policy or ways in the transfer market.

 

Regarding Duff and N'Zogbia, by signing the Irishman we are curtailing the Frenchman's development, blocking his path to the first-team and that isn't even going into the whole "did we really need Duff"? debate either which just adds to the whole idiocy of his signing anyway. N'Zogbia or any talent like him needs to play as many games as they can at that age to develop IMO, not competition. Did Fergie buy a class player to provide competition for Giggs or did he allow his talent to flourish by playing games uninterrupted?

 

And while Duff is or was a top player, he didn't bring anything new to the club that N'Zogbia couldn't provide, i.e. he is no improvement down that left-flank, as his performances have shown.

 

My theory is that Duff was bought to temper any concerns that Roeder, this disappointing appointment, could attract top players, that and to appease an element of fans who crave big name signings and to signal to the world that hey "all the top players want to play for us" - Freddy's words not mine. Got to live up to that now don't we...

 

 

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Disagree with the basic premise of the OP that we don't do the things advocated anyway, simply that the manager has different opinions to you and isn't in possession of a crystal ball.

 

This stood out for me though:

 

Will his signing bring out the best in N'Zogbia? (no)

 

Are you actually coaching kids? What are you teaching them? If there's a player in your position who's better/ more experienced than you ignore them and don't try to learn anything from them. If possible move to a new team where you're automatic first choice with no competition so you can play in as many games as possible, at least 50-60 a season? Worrying.

 

 

Fair enough, but if we do indentify players that way, Duff sure is an odd signing, as are numerous others. I think you know deep down that there is an inherent flaw in our policy and before anyone starts, I'm not having a go at the club here either, signing the right players is damn hard but I can't help feel we don't exactly help ourselves or do ourselves any favours because of our policy or ways in the transfer market.

 

Regarding Duff and N'Zogbia, by signing the Irishman we are curtailing the Frenchman's development, blocking his path to the first-team and that isn't even going into the whole "did we really need Duff"? debate either which just adds to the whole idiocy of his signing anyway. N'Zogbia or any talent like him needs to play as many games as they can at that age to develop IMO, not competition. Did Fergie buy a class player to provide competition for Giggs or did he allow his talent to flourish by playing games uninterrupted?

 

And while Duff is or was a top player, he didn't bring anything new to the club that N'Zogbia couldn't provide, i.e. he is no improvement down that left-flank, as his performances have shown.

 

Giggs has only played over 40 games in a season once in his career, and Man U typically play over 60 games a season. Maybe he was played too much as a youngster which fucked up his long-term fitness?

 

I still can't quite believe you would recommend playing a 19 year old for 50-60 games a season, and if we don't flog him into the ground who would we play on the left who wouldn't just be a make-do solution? Please don't say Luque.

 

My theory is that Duff was bought to temper any concerns that Roeder, this disappointing appointment, could attract top players, that and to appease an element of fans who crave big name signings and to signal to the world that hey "all the top players want to play for us" - Freddy's words not mine. Got to live up to that now don't we...

 

You don't have a very high opinion of your fellow supporters do you? I know I've come to expect that a lot of people have different ideas about the players/club than me (ie wrong ones), but even I don't think there are a significant number who are as superficial and ignorant as to be appeased simply by "big name signings". Maybe you could point some out on this board?

 

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Guest Knightrider

Disagree with the basic premise of the OP that we don't do the things advocated anyway, simply that the manager has different opinions to you and isn't in possession of a crystal ball.

 

This stood out for me though:

 

Will his signing bring out the best in N'Zogbia? (no)

 

Are you actually coaching kids? What are you teaching them? If there's a player in your position who's better/ more experienced than you ignore them and don't try to learn anything from them. If possible move to a new team where you're automatic first choice with no competition so you can play in as many games as possible, at least 50-60 a season? Worrying.

 

 

Fair enough, but if we do indentify players that way, Duff sure is an odd signing, as are numerous others. I think you know deep down that there is an inherent flaw in our policy and before anyone starts, I'm not having a go at the club here either, signing the right players is damn hard but I can't help feel we don't exactly help ourselves or do ourselves any favours because of our policy or ways in the transfer market.

 

Regarding Duff and N'Zogbia, by signing the Irishman we are curtailing the Frenchman's development, blocking his path to the first-team and that isn't even going into the whole "did we really need Duff"? debate either which just adds to the whole idiocy of his signing anyway. N'Zogbia or any talent like him needs to play as many games as they can at that age to develop IMO, not competition. Did Fergie buy a class player to provide competition for Giggs or did he allow his talent to flourish by playing games uninterrupted?

 

And while Duff is or was a top player, he didn't bring anything new to the club that N'Zogbia couldn't provide, i.e. he is no improvement down that left-flank, as his performances have shown.

 

Giggs has only played over 40 games in a season once in his career, and Man U typically play over 60 games a season. Maybe he was played too much as a youngster which fucked up his long-term fitness?

 

I still can't quite believe you would recommend playing a 19 year old for 50-60 games a season, and if we don't flog him into the ground who would we play on the left who wouldn't just be a make-do solution? Please don't say Luque.

 

My theory is that Duff was bought to temper any concerns that Roeder, this disappointing appointment, could attract top players, that and to appease an element of fans who crave big name signings and to signal to the world that hey "all the top players want to play for us" - Freddy's words not mine. Got to live up to that now don't we...

 

You don't have a very high opinion of your fellow supporters do you? I know I've come to expect that a lot of people have different ideas about the players/club than me (ie wrong ones), but even I don't think there are a significant number who are as superficial and ignorant as to be appeased simply by "big name signings". Maybe you could point some out on this board?

 

 

No I wouldn't play N'Zogbia in every game, i.e. 60 a season, something I haven't said I would do. As for Giggs, who knows whether playing a lot of games so early in his career affected him injury wise, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. What playing regularly did do however which can't be denied, is it brought his game on in leaps and bounds.

 

Regarding the fans... everytime the transfer window comes around, on forums, this and others, radio-phone ins and general fan talk at work, in and around the ground and in Toon, loads demand big name signings and that we spend big money, even if we don't have any. Just look at when we signed Owen, people shouting "Souness, Souness". Aye, not easily appeased...

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No I wouldn't play N'Zogbia in every game, i.e. 60 a season, something I haven't said I would do.

 

Yet you still haven't said who would play instead. Which games would they play in, the important ones or the "easier" ones? Do you think most supporters would be happy with the situation when n'zogbia was rested and replaced by someone not used to playing on the LW? What about when he suffers the typical run of poor form that young players have after their first good season? Do you not think people would be whining about lack of adequate backup in that position just like they are now about the full back positions?

 

As for Giggs, who knows whether playing a lot of games so early in his career affected him injury wise, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. What playing regularly did do however which can't be denied, is it brought his game on in leaps and bounds.

 

Ridiculous statement. So it's "who knows" regarding injuries, but "can't be denied" regarding playing development. I could just as easily say "who knows whether playing a lot of games so early in his career brought his game on in leaps and bounds, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. What playing regularly did do however which can't be denied, is affect him injury wise."

 

Would you say that team based training for regular games each week is better for a young players development than training geared more to the development of the player without the pressure of the needs of the team week in week out?

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Guest Invicta_Toon

'New Way' FFS

 

a mega uber post to basically say sign the right players. You honestly think that isn't our policy?

 

your mega post completely ignores one thing - will the player come here?

 

And laughable that you consider Sibierski a failed transfer

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'New Way' FFS

 

a mega uber post to basically say sign the right players. You honestly think that isn't our policy?

 

your mega post completely ignores one thing - will the player come here?

 

And laughable that you consider Sibierski a failed transfer

madras in agreeing with vicky shocker
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Guest Knightrider

No I wouldn't play N'Zogbia in every game, i.e. 60 a season, something I haven't said I would do.

 

Yet you still haven't said who would play instead. Which games would they play in, the important ones or the "easier" ones? Do you think most supporters would be happy with the situation when n'zogbia was rested and replaced by someone not used to playing on the LW? What about when he suffers the typical run of poor form that young players have after their first good season? Do you not think people would be whining about lack of adequate backup in that position just like they are now about the full back positions?

 

As for Giggs, who knows whether playing a lot of games so early in his career affected him injury wise, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. What playing regularly did do however which can't be denied, is it brought his game on in leaps and bounds.

 

Ridiculous statement. So it's "who knows" regarding injuries, but "can't be denied" regarding playing development. I could just as easily say "who knows whether playing a lot of games so early in his career brought his game on in leaps and bounds, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. What playing regularly did do however which can't be denied, is affect him injury wise."

 

Would you say that team based training for regular games each week is better for a young players development than training geared more to the development of the player without the pressure of the needs of the team week in week out?

 

Look, we are going around in circles here. The top and bottom of it as I see it is that Duff was an unnecessary signing, signed without much logic or reason behind it, a player we just didn't need. You can argue about good cover for N'Zogbia all you like but we are not in a position to spend good money on good cover not when first-team positions needed strengthened first, hell we didn't even replace Boumsong which left us short at the back.

 

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't have decent cover in back up, if we want to become a good team, we'll need 22 good players in every position, but first you need to have 11 good players for the first-team before you start on the back up team and in N'Zogbia we already had a good LW, yet we have no good full-backs or centre-backs and you could argue, Martins and the injured Owen aside, no good strikers.

 

That £5m we spent on Duff could have bought us two full-backs, or a centre-half, or another striker, players we NEEDED and players who would benefit us. Has Duff benefitted us? Has he benefitted N'Zogbia? No, so my point stands.

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Guest Knightrider

'New Way' FFS

 

a mega uber post to basically say sign the right players. You honestly think that isn't our policy?

 

your mega post completely ignores one thing - will the player come here?

 

And laughable that you consider Sibierski a failed transfer

 

I never said Sibierski was a failed transfer, but he was a sign of our failiure in the transfer market and anyone who can't see that isn't living in reality. My post didn't ignore "will he come here" either, that goes without saying, and applies to any transfer policy or any player.

 

The facts speak for themselves on this one, we buy the wrong players, as evidenced by the number of players who simply fail here, or how we are forever needing to address the defence, full-bak, midfield and attack. Under SBR we were always one or two players short, yet we've signed more players in the last few years than we ever have, yet we are a lot of players short, no?

 

And Vic, no I don't think we care too much for signing the right players, this is Newcastle United, all the top players want to sign for us, we just have to sign them and watch them do the business...

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Look, we are going around in circles here. The top and bottom of it as I see it is that Duff was an unnecessary signing, signed without much logic or reason behind it, a player we just didn't need. You can argue about good cover for N'Zogbia all you like but we are not in a position to spend good money on good cover not when first-team positions needed strengthened first, hell we didn't even replace Boumsong which left us short at the back.

 

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't have decent cover in back up, if we want to become a good team, we'll need 22 good players in every position, but first you need to have 11 good players for the first-team before you start on the back up team and in N'Zogbia we already had a good LW, yet we have no good full-backs or centre-backs and you could argue, Martins and the injured Owen aside, no good strikers.

 

That £5m we spent on Duff could have bought us two full-backs, or a centre-half, or another striker, players we NEEDED and players who would benefit us. Has Duff benefitted us? Has he benefitted N'Zogbia? No, so my point stands.

 

We're not going round in circles. We're not going anywhere because you're avoiding answering any of the points.

 

Anyway, I'd like your opinion on this proposed set of transfers for Summer 06:

 

RB: Chimbonda - 2m plus Faye and Butt who have both been linked with Wigan in the past

LB: Bridge - 3-4m

ST: Gudjohnson - 4-5m

RW: Malbranque - 3m

CB: Campbell - 1m

LM: Barry - swap for Milner

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Guest Knightrider

Look, we are going around in circles here. The top and bottom of it as I see it is that Duff was an unnecessary signing, signed without much logic or reason behind it, a player we just didn't need. You can argue about good cover for N'Zogbia all you like but we are not in a position to spend good money on good cover not when first-team positions needed strengthened first, hell we didn't even replace Boumsong which left us short at the back.

 

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't have decent cover in back up, if we want to become a good team, we'll need 22 good players in every position, but first you need to have 11 good players for the first-team before you start on the back up team and in N'Zogbia we already had a good LW, yet we have no good full-backs or centre-backs and you could argue, Martins and the injured Owen aside, no good strikers.

 

That £5m we spent on Duff could have bought us two full-backs, or a centre-half, or another striker, players we NEEDED and players who would benefit us. Has Duff benefitted us? Has he benefitted N'Zogbia? No, so my point stands.

 

We're not going round in circles. We're not going anywhere because you're avoiding answering any of the points.

 

Anyway, I'd like your opinion on this proposed set of transfers for Summer 06:

 

RB: Chimbonda - 2m plus Faye and Butt who have both been linked with Wigan in the past

LB: Bridge - 3-4m

ST: Gudjohnson - 4-5m

RW: Malbranque - 3m

CB: Campbell - 1m

LM: Barry - swap for Milner

 

What points am I avoiding? I've addressed your points with my own which you obviously don't agree with, which is fine, I'm not going to go round and round in circles though in a fruitless attempt to sway you to my way of thinking or to agree with me, I disagree with your own points too and I'm not going to change my mind so agree, to disagree, eh?

 

As for the players, I take it those are players I wanted us to sign in the summer? If so, and?

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Chimbonda - fair enough

Bridge - dismissed in OP

Gudjohnsen - cost 12+3m euros - too expensive

Malbranque - only £2m less than Duff, same age as Duff, versatile like Duff, on form not as good as Duff. Are we that short on cash?

Campbell - high wages, poor fitness, in decline, not hungry

Barry - pipe dream getting him at all never mind a swap for Milner

 

Plus you're offloading 2 of our best players this season.

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Guest Knightrider

Chimbonda - fair enough

Bridge - dismissed in OP

Gudjohnsen - cost 12+3m euros - too expensive

Malbranque - only £2m less than Duff, same age as Duff, versatile like Duff, on form not as good as Duff. Are we that short on cash?

Campbell - high wages, poor fitness, in decline, not hungry

Barry - pipe dream getting him at all never mind a swap for Milner

 

Plus you're offloading 2 of our best players this season.

 

Hindsight eh ;)

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