Scouting overhaul?

[lovejoy]

at last

 

 

 

 

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/sundaysun/tm_headline=scouting-network-needs-rebuilding%26method=full%26objectid=18807155%26siteid=50081-name_page.html

 

 

Scouting network needs rebuildingMar 25 2007

 

 

 

 

By The Sunday Sun

 

 

Glenn Roeder last night vowed to rebuild a Newcastle scouting network he claims is all but non-existent . . .

 

In order to identify transfer targets worthy of his quest for success at St James's Park.

 

While Roeder describes his summer player search as his biggest challenge as United boss, his first - and biggest - signing of the summer may perform off the pitch.

 

"We haven't got the recruitment personnel - ie the scouting network - we need, and we're working on that," Roeder revealed.

 

"We've got one full-time scout. Frank Arnesen, at Academy level at Chelsea, has got more than 20 full-time scouts all around the world looking for young talent under 21.

 

 

 

 

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"The chairman is trying to help me and we've highlighted someone we want to employ.

 

 

"We are trying to persuade him to leave his current club to come to Newcastle, and he would help me greatly.

 

 

"We would be employing his address book. He has got contacts, and we haven't."

 

 

 

[Guest eyeball_tickler]

is terry mac the only scout we have? im sure he was appointed as a scout when roeder took over.

 

and didnt we steal 2 scouts from west ham last year, or did i just imagine that?

[stozo]

is terry mac the only scout we have? im sure he was appointed as a scout when roeder took over.

 

and didnt we steal 2 scouts from west ham last year, or did i just imagine that?

Terry Mac isn't a scout. David Mills is our only full-time scout.

 

If I remember the two guys from West ham were into their 60's so I'd imagine they are just working part time.

[Dinho lad]

It took them that long to realise it? Idiots.

[Guest smoggeordie]

It took them that long to realise it? Idiots.

 

Oh yes, i'm sure Glenn just woke up this morning and thought "Hang on, what are these scout thingies? They might be useful"

 

Did he fuck. We've had more pressing matters than employing scouts since he came. He's just got round to it now.

[Guest NIToon]

Comments like having the need for a better scouting network highlight the need for something we are sorely missing and that is a 'Director of Football', ie someone who can oversee the recruitment and scouting of talent and let GR get on with the day to day stuff. 

 

Why this is only coming to light now given our rather unsuccessful forays into the market shows that the tree needs a shake, I'm sure a few monkeys will fall out

[Guest nufc 4 life]

we have supposedly signed montgomery from Rangers as our new scout

[tmonkey]

Doesnt seem like theres going to be much of an overhaul. Just an attempt to get a man on board who has lots of "contacts" - ie, a quick fix that papers over the cracks. Why appoint 7-8 more scouts when we can just get one guy in who can ask a mate about this player or that?

 

Meh, but I guess I cant complain, because at least were trying to recitfy the problem. Of course, its natural for one of the worlds 8 bestest clubs to have virtually no scouting network in place. Our recent domestic and European successes, as well as the numerous successes in the transfer market, have proven that we dont need one. So its unreasonable to expect more, especially since its not the job of the chairman at all to ensure or demand that a good scouting network is in place. Hes got other things to do, its not his responsibility.

[Baggio]

More proof that a Director of Football is needed.

 

1 scout, Jesus wept! :lol:

[Jaehyun]

we have supposedly signed montgomery from Rangers as our new scout

Then does that mean another contract for Bernard?

[Yorkie]

we have supposedly signed montgomery from Rangers as our new scout

 

Paul Montgomery?

 

He's been here for yonks ain't he?

[Greg]

we have supposedly signed montgomery from Rangers as our new scout

 

Paul Montgomery?

 

He's been here for yonks ain't he?

 

He used to be but then he left.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Doesnt seem like theres going to be much of an overhaul. Just an attempt to get a man on board who has lots of "contacts" - ie, a quick fix that papers over the cracks. Why appoint 7-8 more scouts when we can just get one guy in who can ask a mate about this player or that?

 

Meh, but I guess I cant complain, because at least were trying to recitfy the problem. Of course, its natural for one of the worlds 8 bestest clubs to have virtually no scouting network in place. Our recent domestic and European successes, as well as the numerous successes in the transfer market, have proven that we dont need one. So its unreasonable to expect more, especially since its not the job of the chairman at all to ensure or demand that a good scouting network is in place. Hes got other things to do, its not his responsibility.

It's a disgrace that we haven't got a scouting network. It's no wonder we never get bargains (N'Zogbia being the one exception) and always end up spending £10 million on already established 'stars' from other clubs. Why didn't previous managers have this set up or did all their scouts go when they went? One thing you can say for Roeder is that at least he is trying to set up the things at the club most of us would have assumed were already in place!

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Doesnt seem like theres going to be much of an overhaul. Just an attempt to get a man on board who has lots of "contacts" - ie, a quick fix that papers over the cracks. Why appoint 7-8 more scouts when we can just get one guy in who can ask a mate about this player or that?

 

Meh, but I guess I cant complain, because at least were trying to recitfy the problem. Of course, its natural for one of the worlds 8 bestest clubs to have virtually no scouting network in place. Our recent domestic and European successes, as well as the numerous successes in the transfer market, have proven that we dont need one. So its unreasonable to expect more, especially since its not the job of the chairman at all to ensure or demand that a good scouting network is in place. Hes got other things to do, its not his responsibility.

It's a disgrace that we haven't got a scouting network. It's no wonder we never get bargains (N'Zogbia being the one exception) and always end up spending £10 million on already established 'stars' from other clubs. Why didn't previous managers have this set up or did all their scouts go when they went? One thing you can say for Roeder is that at least he is trying to set up the things at the club most of us would have assumed were already in place!

 

You thought we had any scouts when Souness was here? Jesus

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

You thought we had any scouts when Souness was here? Jesus

No. We had a DVD player, a tv and a big pile of player highlight DVDs from player's agents.

 

Does Willie McKay count as a scout? 

[Guest JamesD]

i was wondering how they did it before youtube.

[Unlucky Luque]

i was wondering how they did it before youtube.

 

to letters:

 

 

 

FM

[Guest Knightrider]

Yet more evidence of the mismanagement that has blighted this club, in the year 2007, to have no scouting system, is an absolute joke, seriously. There are clubs like Bolton who have had a scouting system in place for over 5 years now. It is things like this that fills me with zero hope for the future.

[Baggio]

Yet more evidence of the mismanagement that has blighted this club, in the year 2007, to have no scouting system, is an absolute joke, seriously. There are clubs like Bolton who have had a scouting system in place for over 5 years now. It is things like this that fills me with zero hope for the future.

 

Which is why we should employ someone separate from the manager to take care of things like this, that way when the manager does leave someone will still be in place to run every other aspect of the club apart from the first team.

 

1 scout is a joke and just highlights that we're being run like the Worlds biggest pub team.

[biggs]

roeder has followed souness who in turn followed robson and i guess the two former should have had there own scouting network etc as in an old boys network .but roeder has had long enough to get this up and running and ffs why wait so long .hope the new guy can spot a talent when he sees one and roeder can ruin his career for him .

[Guest Knightrider]

Yet more evidence of the mismanagement that has blighted this club, in the year 2007, to have no scouting system, is an absolute joke, seriously. There are clubs like Bolton who have had a scouting system in place for over 5 years now. It is things like this that fills me with zero hope for the future.

 

Which is why we should employ someone separate from the manager to take care of things like this, that way when the manager does leave someone will still be in place to run every other aspect of the club apart from the first team.

 

1 scout is a joke and just highlights that we're being run like the Worlds biggest pub team.

 

I'd rather have a manager that has the enterprise (and skills) to overhaul such a setup himself, personally like, ala Big Sam. Everything at a club must be of the direction of the manager, i.e. everything must be lead by the manager. A Chelsea fan I know reckons the fall-out between Mourinho and Abramovic is very real and not fabricated or overhyped and all down to the academy and scouting, Mourinho's responsibility for those things have been removed apparently, with your man Arnesen and others now in control and he ain't happy and rightly so. If a club is to have a vision, it has to come from the manager and be directed by him, not by some middleman hired because the manager isn't quite good enough to do the overhauling himself or doesn't have such an overall vision.

 

Even if we did appoint such a man, he'd be undermined to some extent anyway by the board who without saying it, are basically against any form of hands on approach by the manager or anyone else, which is why they dish out jobs for the boys and keep things in the family.

 

Depressing isn't it? God they need to go like. I made a post a few months ago about overhauling the scouting setup and while I imagined it to be bad based on knowledge gained and the obvious, I honestly didn't realise things were this bad, shocking really.

 

Things like this piss me off more than a defeat.

[Baggio]

Yet more evidence of the mismanagement that has blighted this club, in the year 2007, to have no scouting system, is an absolute joke, seriously. There are clubs like Bolton who have had a scouting system in place for over 5 years now. It is things like this that fills me with zero hope for the future.

 

Which is why we should employ someone separate from the manager to take care of things like this, that way when the manager does leave someone will still be in place to run every other aspect of the club apart from the first team.

 

1 scout is a joke and just highlights that we're being run like the Worlds biggest pub team.

 

I'd rather have a manager that has the enterprise (and skills) to overhaul such a setup himself, personally like, ala Big Sam. Everything at a club must be of the direction of the manager, i.e. everything must be lead by the manager. A Chelsea fan I know reckons the fall-out between Mourinho and Abramovic is very real and not fabricated or overhyped and all down to the academy and scouting, Mourinho's responsibility for those things have been removed apparently, with your man Arnesen and others now in control and he ain't happy and rightly so. If a club is to have a vision, it has to come from the manager and be directed by him, not by some middleman hired because the manager isn't quite good enough to do the overhauling himself or doesn't have such an overall vision.

 

Even if we did appoint such a man, he'd be undermined to some extent anyway by the board who without saying it, are basically against any form of hands on approach by the manager or anyone else, which is why they dish out jobs for the boys and keep things in the family.

 

Depressing isn't it? God they need to go like. I made a post a few months ago about overhauling the scouting setup and while I imagined it to be bad based on knowledge gained and the obvious, I honestly didn't realise things were this bad, shocking really.

 

Things like this piss me off more than a defeat.

 

You can't expect a manager to do it all, what Allardyce has set up at Bolton is something that can be done at a club like that as he isn't under any real presure there, he's still only scouting average European leagues for players rather than top young talent like Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and now Liverpool are. You're also banking on Freddie Shepherd employing a manager capable of setting up something like this as well as running the first team, judging by his last 2 appointments I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

The talk of Mourinho's fall out with Abramovich over Arnasen is the first I've heard of it and sounds like bullshit, most reports have it down to the signing of Shevchenko who Mourinho didn't want.

[Guest Knightrider]

Yet more evidence of the mismanagement that has blighted this club, in the year 2007, to have no scouting system, is an absolute joke, seriously. There are clubs like Bolton who have had a scouting system in place for over 5 years now. It is things like this that fills me with zero hope for the future.

 

Which is why we should employ someone separate from the manager to take care of things like this, that way when the manager does leave someone will still be in place to run every other aspect of the club apart from the first team.

 

1 scout is a joke and just highlights that we're being run like the Worlds biggest pub team.

 

I'd rather have a manager that has the enterprise (and skills) to overhaul such a setup himself, personally like, ala Big Sam. Everything at a club must be of the direction of the manager, i.e. everything must be lead by the manager. A Chelsea fan I know reckons the fall-out between Mourinho and Abramovic is very real and not fabricated or overhyped and all down to the academy and scouting, Mourinho's responsibility for those things have been removed apparently, with your man Arnesen and others now in control and he ain't happy and rightly so. If a club is to have a vision, it has to come from the manager and be directed by him, not by some middleman hired because the manager isn't quite good enough to do the overhauling himself or doesn't have such an overall vision.

 

Even if we did appoint such a man, he'd be undermined to some extent anyway by the board who without saying it, are basically against any form of hands on approach by the manager or anyone else, which is why they dish out jobs for the boys and keep things in the family.

 

Depressing isn't it? God they need to go like. I made a post a few months ago about overhauling the scouting setup and while I imagined it to be bad based on knowledge gained and the obvious, I honestly didn't realise things were this bad, shocking really.

 

Things like this piss me off more than a defeat.

 

You can't expect a manager to do it all, what Allardyce has set up at Bolton is something that can be done at a club like that as he isn't under any real presure there, he's still only scouting average European leagues for players rather than top young talent like Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and now Liverpool are. You're also banking on Freddie Shepherd employing a manager capable of setting up something like this as well as running the first team, judging by his last 2 appointments I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

The talk of Mourinho's fall out with Abramovich over Arnasen is the first I've heard of it and sounds like bullshit, most reports have it down to the signing of Shevchenko who Mourinho didn't want.

 

Mourinho does it all (or did depending on who you talk to), so does Fergie, Benitez and so has Wenger, and they are under far more pressure than anyone at Newcastle United will ever likely to be for the foreseeable future, so again, why can't a manager not put in place such systems here at United? Why a DOF?

 

As for Big Sam and Bolton, the pressure may be different but the job details are the same, yet he found time to overhaul Bolton's setup. Infact he drafted the blueprint in just 2 weeks from what I remember (he once spoke at great length on the John Barnes' Football show about it), he then went to his board and they gave it the green light, he then got in the required people and a few years later...

 

Again, I don't disagree with a DOF and you do make some really valid points, but I think you're so fixated on the idea it is like we must have a DOF. If I'm reading you wrong, let me know, but that's how it comes over as.

 

I'm open to it like, but I'd far rather have a top manager with the enterprise to do it all himself. Alas neither is going to happen at Newcastle though  :'(

[Guest Knightrider]

The talk of Mourinho's fall out with Abramovich over Arnasen is the first I've heard of it and sounds like bullshit, most reports have it down to the signing of Shevchenko who Mourinho didn't want.

 

Just what I was told, not sure whether I believe it myself tbh, although the Shevchenko thing does seem a little too obvious, no? Mourinho won't be told who to sign and play of course, but would he knock back the purchase of a player considered to be one of the best in the world at scoring goals?

 

Chelsea would be mad to let him go though, or piss him off, utter mad. I think he'll leave myself like, can't see him sticking around as he'll be a wanted man and will be able to pick and choose, Madrid, Milan, anyone almost.

[Martin Lol]

How on earth does FFS think players can be identified if there's just one scout?  It does give the impression that signings have been made more on the strength of agents' recommendations and youtube videos put together by the agents.  As agents have a vested interest in who goes here, it's not surprising that so many transfers that have been concluded have gone flat.

 

Baggio has spoken here and before on the need for a DoF, I spoke about it again in the 'improving on  a shoestring' thread.  There's not many things that me and Baggio agree on but the benefits of a DoF is certainly one.  But to not have a DoF and still only have one full time scout is verging on lunacy!  How many miles in a year would he do looking at players???  No wonder it takes forever to sign a player when Roeder says he's scouting someone.  Beggars belief tbh.

 

 

The talk of Mourinho's fall out with Abramovich over Arnasen is the first I've heard of it and sounds like bullshit, most reports have it down to the signing of Shevchenko who Mourinho didn't want.

 

The rumour mill down here suggests that as Abramovich's relationship with Mourinho has got progressively frosty, RA has turned more and more to Arnesen for his advice.  Wouldn't surprise me in the least, first class wheeler dealer, Arnesen would know how to make the most of the breakdown in relations between Abramovich and Mourinho.  I would agree Arnesen wasn't the reason for the fallout, he's just likely to be the beneficiary.