Newcastle submit £300m plans to develop SJP - Official

[NE5]

its not surprising your knowledge and view is so limited when you are only bothered about the clubs history since 1992, BTW.

 

I'm bothered about where we are now, not where we were 10, 20 or even 30 years ago.

 

If you had listened to someone with more modern day football knowledge than yourself, someone like me for example, you would have known that Roeder would be an awful appointment, but you didn't did you?

 

 

and how many times have you seen Newcastle, in the last decade, and before that ?

 

Like I said, ignorance of history is ignorance of the bigger picture.

 

If you think 10th in the top league is "awful" then your delusion and lack of awareness of REAL mediocrity is proven, and sadly, whatever you think your knowledge is, it only serves to emphasise your ignorance.

 

You can continue to call a chief scout a "DOF" if you like, and it makes you feel good.

 

As I have also said, what we want is directors who make the right appointment every time, who buys the right players at the right price every time, just like every other club does. Perfection every time.

 

 

 

Ah the "How many games have you been to" argument! You asked me that about a month and I told you, still you can't remember answering questions in this thread so I don't expect you to remember something from a month ago.

 

10th is awful though for the 5th best team over the past decade! mackems.gif

 

As for a DOF, I find it extremely funny that you argue you don't want one when you don't even know what one is. I really can't be bothered to argue with a sad old t*** like yourself with an obvious agenda anymore, the sort of sad t*** who signs up to a s**** site like Howaythetoon pretending to be me so that he can have something in his signature.

 

Obsessed tbh.

 

PS - I've edited your spelling mistake for you.

 

oh dear, I'm chuffed, I have a stalker.

 

You get dafter by the minute.

 

Congratulations on the site you have eerrr....setup, signed up to ? I'm sure you will get loads of brilliant posters all talking about your DOF.

 

I haven't got a clue what you mean about setting up a username, I don't care if it is you or not. In fact, I'm glad it isn't now that you say it isn't. We would rather not have to listen to you harping on about DOF's all the time.

 

 

 

I'm sure it wasn't you, I suppose you're not Leazes"top boss Souness"Mag on toontastic either even though you have exactly the same IP address and post exactly the same posts.

 

You're off your fucking head you silly old fool.

 

such insults !!!

 

dear me.

 

The things people resort to when they know they have lost.  mackems.gif

[Wullie]

Jesus has only just come back to life, you think he wants to be weeping on a day like this?

 

Poor bugger.

[Dokko]

Jesus has only just come back to life, you think he wants to be weeping on a day like this?

 

Poor bugger.

 

mackems.gif x  x 1000 =   

[Baggio]

its not surprising your knowledge and view is so limited when you are only bothered about the clubs history since 1992, BTW.

 

I'm bothered about where we are now, not where we were 10, 20 or even 30 years ago.

 

If you had listened to someone with more modern day football knowledge than yourself, someone like me for example, you would have known that Roeder would be an awful appointment, but you didn't did you?

 

 

and how many times have you seen Newcastle, in the last decade, and before that ?

 

Like I said, ignorance of history is ignorance of the bigger picture.

 

If you think 10th in the top league is "awful" then your delusion and lack of awareness of REAL mediocrity is proven, and sadly, whatever you think your knowledge is, it only serves to emphasise your ignorance.

 

You can continue to call a chief scout a "DOF" if you like, and it makes you feel good.

 

As I have also said, what we want is directors who make the right appointment every time, who buys the right players at the right price every time, just like every other club does. Perfection every time.

 

 

 

Ah the "How many games have you been to" argument! You asked me that about a month and I told you, still you can't remember answering questions in this thread so I don't expect you to remember something from a month ago.

 

10th is awful though for the 5th best team over the past decade! mackems.gif

 

As for a DOF, I find it extremely funny that you argue you don't want one when you don't even know what one is. I really can't be bothered to argue with a sad old t*** like yourself with an obvious agenda anymore, the sort of sad t*** who signs up to a s**** site like Howaythetoon pretending to be me so that he can have something in his signature.

 

Obsessed tbh.

 

PS - I've edited your spelling mistake for you.

 

oh dear, I'm chuffed, I have a stalker.

 

You get dafter by the minute.

 

Congratulations on the site you have eerrr....setup, signed up to ? I'm sure you will get loads of brilliant posters all talking about your DOF.

 

I haven't got a clue what you mean about setting up a username, I don't care if it is you or not. In fact, I'm glad it isn't now that you say it isn't. We would rather not have to listen to you harping on about DOF's all the time.

 

 

 

I'm sure it wasn't you, I suppose you're not Leazes"top boss Souness"Mag on toontastic either even though you have exactly the same IP address and post exactly the same posts.

 

You're off your f****** head you silly old fool.

 

such insults !!!

 

dear me.

 

The things people resort to when they know they have lost.  mackems.gif

 

Lost what?

[Yorkie]

There's been computerised images of the hotel, etc... has there been anything of the stadium extension itself?

[Martin Lol]

 

Do you consider 2nd, 13th, 13th, 11th, 11th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 14th and 7th nowadays to be failure?

 

 

No, it was a successful period in Newcastle's recent past.  But do you believe Newcastle are about to replicate those figures over the next 10 years?  I don't think so.

 

Do you think the club is going backwards and other clubs are overtaking us?

 

Yes or no?

 

Yes, without doubt.  5 or 6 years ago neither Spurs or Bolton were remotely close to Newcastle's level.  Now both clubs have caught up and overtaken Newcastle (imho).

 

And it may do you good to look at the Spurs boards, or meet some of their supporters, because plenty of them are whinging on about their own club too, just like you and NUFC.

 

 

There will always be fans who want things done differently, even Chelsea and Man Utd are not exempt from this.  The vast majority of Spurs fans are happy with the direction the club is taking and the progress being made.

 

Spurs are a club our board should model themselves on, they have overtaken us on a budget because their board have got things right on and off the field, their board is better than ours by quite some distance, they've proved there is more to running a football club than throwing money at (poor) managers.

 

I would never suggest who Newcastle should model themselves on in the future, but I don't disagree with what you've said about Spurs.

 

There are many of us who see a manager doing his job okay, then him falling away after a few years, when we find he hasn't the skills to keep it going. Some of the managers even see this. Strachan has said he believes a good manager has a lifetime of about 3 or 4 years at a club, a great one can reinvent his side, but these are rare men.

 

Totally agree.  Managers like Fergie, Wenger and SBR are rare indeed. I include SBR as he managed at the top level for over 20 years and (imho) would have turned Newcastle around again, but wasn't given the time to do so.  So the belief that a good manager (not a great one) has only 3-5 years in him only reinforces the need for a DoF.  I'll return to that at the end.

 

 

I've told you what I think of this Comolli. If you are talking about a man who scouts then he has a good record, so far. If you are talking about someone who runs and develops a youth team, which you are or have done, then Irvine and Roeder have done this job for Newcastle...............

 

..................Lastly, I will repeat what I have said to you before. A DOF is bollocks if you have a manager who knows what he is doing. And as for scouts, all clubs have scouts, and all clubs have people running their youth setups. I am not interested in using a fancy title to describe a scout, which is basically all you are doing. Alex Ferguson doesn't need a DOF. Your constant copy and paste jobs about DOF's and following me around to harp on about it is boring the arse off me.

 

Quite frankly, I don't think you have any comprehension of what Comolli does for Spurs.  Comolli, as DoF, is responsible for the Academy, he does not run the youth set up.  He is responsible for the scouting network, he is not the chief scout.  He has his own transfer budget of in excess of £10m per year to sign half a dozen youngsters provided that their individual fee does not exceed a certain figure and that their salary does not exceed a certain figure.  When Adel Taarabt was signed from Lens, Comolli told Levy that he was signing Taarabt, not asking if he could be signed.  There is a level of delegation of duties which (I would believe) far exceeds that which exists at SJP.  At the weekend, some newspapers were reporting that a Brazilian kid is being bought and will be loaned to FC Brussels to shortcut work permit problems.  This is no different to what Arsenal did with Carlos Vela (in Spain) and Comolli has complete control in that area.  It's Comolli that has created 5 associations/partnerships with other clubs in Europe and Africa and there is no doubt that there will be more. 

 

Comolli is also responsible for the proposed upgrading of WHL (or new stadium) and the progress on the new Academy which alone will be costing approximately £33m.  He's the one who liaises with the local planning areas, he's the one who had a meeting with Ken Livingstone, the Lord Mayor of London, just 2 weeks ago regarding the transport infrastructure around WHL.

 

I would describe Comolli as the visionary who has put together the blueprint for the future of Tottenham Hotspur.  Levy is the one who backs the plans with money and Jol is the one who makes those plans happen.  If things go wrong on the pitch, it's the coach who goes, not the planning, not the blueprint for the future, it's for Comolli and Levy to get the right coach in to make it happen.

 

As I said before, 5 or 6 years ago Newcastle were streets ahead of where Spurs and Bolton were at that time.  Now I believe Newcastle are behind both.  Bolton and Sam Allardyce have the strategy there is no doubt, I would still put them ahead of Spurs in development terms, they have had the strategy in place longer.  What Bolton don't have is the financial resources to keep taking that one step further.  At some stage Allardyce will go and I believe Bolton's level of ambition will go with him.  Spurs now have the strategy (since 2004 when Arnesen joined) and have some financial resource to go with that.    Spurs have the fanbase but they don't have the large stadium to generate the significant income through the turnstiles of say Old Trafford, the Emirates or SJP.  Newcastle, by contrast, have the fanbase, the large stadium and the income structure but don't have the strategy.  If there was the strategy was already in place, Newcastle wouldn't be trying to join the Big 4, they would already be part of the Big 5.  In fact, they did have the strategy and their place at the top table and threw it all away when SBR was shown the door.

 

Returning to the original thread, any expansion of SJP should be good for Newcastle.  But it can only be of real benefit when the strategy to take the club forward is in place and that means improving the squad and the Academy structure.  Personally I see little sign of that happening other than in a haphazard manner and, as a Spurs fan, long may that continue.  As a football fan, I think it's a sad sight to see a squandered opportunity.

[NE5]

 

Do you consider 2nd, 13th, 13th, 11th, 11th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 14th and 7th nowadays to be failure?

 

 

No, it was a successful period in Newcastle's recent past.  But do you believe Newcastle are about to replicate those figures over the next 10 years?  I don't think so.

 

Do you think the club is going backwards and other clubs are overtaking us?

 

Yes or no?

 

Yes, without doubt.  5 or 6 years ago neither Spurs or Bolton were remotely close to Newcastle's level.   Now both clubs have caught up and overtaken Newcastle (imho).

 

And it may do you good to look at the Spurs boards, or meet some of their supporters, because plenty of them are whinging on about their own club too, just like you and NUFC.

 

 

There will always be fans who want things done differently, even Chelsea and Man Utd are not exempt from this.  The vast majority of Spurs fans are happy with the direction the club is taking and the progress being made.

 

Spurs are a club our board should model themselves on, they have overtaken us on a budget because their board have got things right on and off the field, their board is better than ours by quite some distance, they've proved there is more to running a football club than throwing money at (poor) managers.

 

I would never suggest who Newcastle should model themselves on in the future, but I don't disagree with what you've said about Spurs.

 

There are many of us who see a manager doing his job okay, then him falling away after a few years, when we find he hasn't the skills to keep it going. Some of the managers even see this. Strachan has said he believes a good manager has a lifetime of about 3 or 4 years at a club, a great one can reinvent his side, but these are rare men.

 

Totally agree.  Managers like Fergie, Wenger and SBR are rare indeed. I include SBR as he managed at the top level for over 20 years and (imho) would have turned Newcastle around again, but wasn't given the time to do so.  So the belief that a good manager (not a great one) has only 3-5 years in him only reinforces the need for a DoF.  I'll return to that at the end.

 

 

I've told you what I think of this Comolli. If you are talking about a man who scouts then he has a good record, so far. If you are talking about someone who runs and develops a youth team, which you are or have done, then Irvine and Roeder have done this job for Newcastle...............

 

..................Lastly, I will repeat what I have said to you before. A DOF is bollocks if you have a manager who knows what he is doing. And as for scouts, all clubs have scouts, and all clubs have people running their youth setups. I am not interested in using a fancy title to describe a scout, which is basically all you are doing. Alex Ferguson doesn't need a DOF. Your constant copy and paste jobs about DOF's and following me around to harp on about it is boring the arse off me.

 

Quite frankly, I don't think you have any comprehension of what Comolli does for Spurs.  Comolli, as DoF, is responsible for the Academy, he does not run the youth set up.  He is responsible for the scouting network, he is not the chief scout.  He has his own transfer budget of in excess of £10m per year to sign half a dozen youngsters provided that their individual fee does not exceed a certain figure and that their salary does not exceed a certain figure.  When Adel Taarabt was signed from Lens, Comolli told Levy that he was signing Taarabt, not asking if he could be signed.  There is a level of delegation of duties which (I would believe) far exceeds that which exists at SJP.  At the weekend, some newspapers were reporting that a Brazilian kid is being bought and will be loaned to FC Brussels to shortcut work permit problems.  This is no different to what Arsenal did with Carlos Vela (in Spain) and Comolli has complete control in that area.  It's Comolli that has created 5 associations/partnerships with other clubs in Europe and Africa and there is no doubt that there will be more. 

 

Comolli is also responsible for the proposed upgrading of WHL (or new stadium) and the progress on the new Academy which alone will be costing approximately £33m.  He's the one who liaises with the local planning areas, he's the one who had a meeting with Ken Livingstone, the Lord Mayor of London, just 2 weeks ago regarding the transport infrastructure around WHL.

 

I would describe Comolli as the visionary who has put together the blueprint for the future of Tottenham Hotspur.  Levy is the one who backs the plans with money and Jol is the one who makes those plans happen.  If things go wrong on the pitch, it's the coach who goes, not the planning, not the blueprint for the future, it's for Comolli and Levy to get the right coach in to make it happen.

 

As I said before, 5 or 6 years ago Newcastle were streets ahead of where Spurs and Bolton were at that time.  Now I believe Newcastle are behind both.  Bolton and Sam Allardyce have the strategy there is no doubt, I would still put them ahead of Spurs in development terms, they have had the strategy in place longer.  What Bolton don't have is the financial resources to keep taking that one step further.  At some stage Allardyce will go and I believe Bolton's level of ambition will go with him.  Spurs now have the strategy (since 2004 when Arnesen joined) and have some financial resource to go with that.    Spurs have the fanbase but they don't have the large stadium to generate the significant income through the turnstiles of say Old Trafford, the Emirates or SJP.  Newcastle, by contrast, have the fanbase, the large stadium and the income structure but don't have the strategy.  If there was the strategy was already in place, Newcastle wouldn't be trying to join the Big 4, they would already be part of the Big 5.  In fact, they did have the strategy and their place at the top table and threw it all away when SBR was shown the door.

 

Returning to the original thread, any expansion of SJP should be good for Newcastle.  But it can only be of real benefit when the strategy to take the club forward is in place and that means improving the squad and the Academy structure.  Personally I see little sign of that happening other than in a haphazard manner and, as a Spurs fan, long may that continue.  As a football fan, I think it's a sad sight to see a squandered opportunity.

 

Basically, I simply don't agree that it is down to setting out a particular course of action, it boils down to having a person who knows what he is doing and has good judgement. You have said it yourself, if the coach goes, it is up to them to find the "right" coach, and if they don't, then the strategy won't matter too much, will it ? Do you think Santini would have done as decent a job as Jol ?

 

All the clubs could set out such a strategy, but only 2 clubs are going to win the league and the FA Cup, just like now, and those clubs will generally be the ones with the people who know what they are doing the most.

 

I know Comolli is more than a chief scout, but essentially, when spotting players, this is what he is doing and no more. If he makes a poor judgement, or poor judgements, then he's failed. If one of his staff do it, the buck for that stops with him too.

 

Ultimately, the position you describe is one of cycles, football runs in cycles. We are aware that some clubs have been able to look like they have stayed at the top forever, and like everyone else I would like my club to be like those. But realistically, whatever your organisation, at the end of the day the buck stops with one man, and that is the first team manager because this is where people are looking. And only 2 of them will win the 2 major trophies, and 4 or 5 more will qualify for europe.

 

You are right about Allardyce. He will leave Bolton, and it will be seen that it isn't Boltons strategy but Allardyces, or in other words, simply a manager who knows what he has been doing and has exercised good judgement. He will take these qualities to another club, where he may succeed again but also may not. NUFC will appoint a good manager again, maybe Allardyce, while someone above us will make a poor one, and we will swap places. He is the most imporant man in any club, without a good one you are pissing in the wind, and as previously said, the ratio to success in football is wafer thin when only 2 clubs can win the major trophies, and so many modern Newcastle supporters are unable to realise that qualifying for europe is at least the next best thing, and certainly far from shite.

 

As always, anywhere, if your board back your manager, you have a chance, but if they do not, then the best manager in the world will not succeed at this level, you have no chance of anything, and he will leave you.

 

 

[Raconteur]

Good post MJ - I especially liked the explanation of Comolli's role. I think some managers, the more hands on, might baulk at having such a system, but I certainly believe it would be of great benefit at NUFC...

 

Of course, you know with one post you'll have managed to turn at least half a dozen quarrelling NUFC fans into a united anti-THFC front, don't you

[Jaehyun]

We need to develop our club, not our stadium.

[Martin Lol]

 

Basically, I simply don't agree that it is down to setting out a particular course of action, it boils down to having a person who knows what he is doing and has good judgement. You have said it yourself, if the coach goes, it is up to them to find the "right" coach, and if they don't, then the strategy won't matter too much, will it ? Do you think Santini would have done as decent a job as Jol ?

 

All the clubs could set out such a strategy, but only 2 clubs are going to win the league and the FA Cup, just like now, and those clubs will generally be the ones with the people who know what they are doing the most.

 

I know Comolli is more than a chief scout, but essentially, when spotting players, this is what he is doing and no more. If he makes a poor judgement, or poor judgements, then he's failed. If one of his staff do it, the buck for that stops with him too.

 

Ultimately, the position you describe is one of cycles, football runs in cycles. We are aware that some clubs have been able to look like they have stayed at the top forever, and like everyone else I would like my club to be like those. But realistically, whatever your organisation, at the end of the day the buck stops with one man, and that is the first team manager because this is where people are looking. And only 2 of them will win the 2 major trophies, and 4 or 5 more will qualify for europe.

 

You are right about Allardyce. He will leave Bolton, and it will be seen that it isn't Boltons strategy but Allardyces, or in other words, simply a manager who knows what he has been doing and has exercised good judgement. He will take these qualities to another club, where he may succeed again but also may not. NUFC will appoint a good manager again, maybe Allardyce, while someone above us will make a poor one, and we will swap places. He is the most imporant man in any club, without a good one you are pissing in the wind, and as previously said, the ratio to success in football is wafer thin when only 2 clubs can win the major trophies, and so many modern Newcastle supporters are unable to realise that qualifying for europe is at least the next best thing, and certainly far from s****.

 

As always, anywhere, if your board back your manager, you have a chance, but if they do not, then the best manager in the world will not succeed at this level, you have no chance of anything, and he will leave you.

 

 

 

I think we'll simply have to disagree tbh, I think the course of action has to come before who will be seeing the course of action through.  Santini would never have done as good a job as Jol, not because he is/was a lesser abled coach but because he didn't want to work with the constraints placed upon him by Arnesen and THFC.  The straw which broke the camel's back was Santini wanting to buy an obscure French midfielder whose name I can't remember, Arnesen said no, I'm buying you Carrick instead.  Carrick signed up and never once played for Santini before he left/resigned/was pushed.  MJ took over and Carrick played every game after that, injuries allowing.  That said, Jol is considered at WHL to be nothing more than decent, not great by any stretch of the imagination.  Juande Ramos, Claude Puel or Alex Inglethorpe (who Comolli rates very highly) would probably be the preferred options to replace him although I do know that Allardyce has been mentioned as well.  Whether Big Sam would want to work alongside a DoF I would say is hugely questionable.

 

Of course the coach has a say in who he would like, but whether Comolli or Levy go along with that is another thing, but I don't think Comolli would force a player on a coach like Arnesen did.  Jol would like us to go all out for Barton, Comolli has massive doubts about his temperament, Comolli is keen on Diouf (who is also keen on Spurs) but Jol doesn't fancy that at all.  I don't think either of those will be seriously pursued.

 

The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up.  Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start.  Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group.  Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again.  It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time.

 

....... I think some managers, the more hands on, might baulk at having such a system, but I certainly believe it would be of great benefit at NUFC...

 

Of course, you know with one post you'll have managed to turn at least half a dozen quarrelling NUFC fans into a united anti-THFC front, don't you

 

I've never thought management by committee is a good thing, and I never will do, but there is a lot of benefit in a collection of knowledgeable people contributing to the discussion.  Roeder may be a good coach but he's no strategist and the thought of GR and FFS planning for the future........... well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall tbh.  With your advice also heeded, tin hat is now on!

[Martin Lol]

you just said;

 

Do you consider 2nd, 13th, 13th, 11th, 11th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 14th and 7th nowadays to be failure?

 

No, it was a successful period in Newcastle's recent past.  But do you believe Newcastle are about to replicate those figures over the next 10 years?  I don't think so.

 

then said;

 

The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up.  Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start.  Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group.  Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again.   It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time.

 

 

 

 

 

less of the itk bollocks, and less of the I told you so s****, just what are you trying to say???

 

 

 

I said Newcastle with good luck and good luck could join the elite in 5 years, I stand by that statement.  if you're asking me do I think Newcastle will get the good direction needed to achieve that with GR and FFS, then my answer is no. 

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I have not seen anything to suggest there is a strategy in place to improve the club other than haphazard signings which, imo, will not be sufficient to push Newcastle into the top group with Chelsea, Man Utd etc.  You may not agree with my views but they are consistent.

[Martin Lol]

you just said;

 

Do you consider 2nd, 13th, 13th, 11th, 11th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 14th and 7th nowadays to be failure?

 

No, it was a successful period in Newcastle's recent past.  But do you believe Newcastle are about to replicate those figures over the next 10 years?  I don't think so.

 

then said;

 

The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up.  Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start.  Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group.  Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again.   It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time.

 

 

 

 

 

less of the itk bollocks, and less of the I told you so s****, just what are you trying to say???

 

 

 

I said Newcastle with good luck and good luck could join the elite in 5 years, I stand by that statement. 

 

no, you said you didnt t

you just said;

 

Do you consider 2nd, 13th, 13th, 11th, 11th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 14th and 7th nowadays to be failure?

 

No, it was a successful period in Newcastle's recent past.  But do you believe Newcastle are about to replicate those figures over the next 10 years?  I don't think so.

 

then said;

 

The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up.  Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start.  Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group.  Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again.   It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time.

 

 

 

 

 

less of the itk bollocks, and less of the I told you so s****, just what are you trying to say???

 

 

 

I said Newcastle with good luck and good luck could join the elite in 5 years, I stand by that statement.  if you're asking me do I think Newcastle will get the good direction needed to achieve that with GR and FFS, then my answer is no. 

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I have not seen anything to suggest there is a strategy in place to improve the club other than haphazard signings which, imo, will not be sufficient to push Newcastle into the top group with Chelsea, Man Utd etc.  You may not agree with my views but they are consistent.

 

i consistentally full of s***.

 

how the f*** can you say in one sentence that "iyho" we are unable to replicate a "succesuful period in our recent past " then  post a bit later that with a bit of luck we can????

 

make your mind up for fucks sake.

 

isnt it funny that when spurs had a dip in form you were "on holiday" now your posting crap all over the place!  mmmmm

 

There's a world of difference between what could happen and what is likely to happen.  Newcastle imo could be very successful with all the right components in place except strategy.  Without that strategy, success could be very difficult to achieve.  Not so hard to wrap your head around that is it? 

 

The holiday was fine thanks although as I've been back for over two months it is more and more a distant memory, but thanks for asking all the same!

[macbeth]

 

I know Sheperd is more than a chairman, but essentially, when spotting managers, this is what he is doing and no more. If he makes a poor judgement, or poor judgements, then he's failed. If one of his staff do it, the buck for that stops with him too.

 

 

you're such a lad

[NE5]

 

Basically, I simply don't agree that it is down to setting out a particular course of action, it boils down to having a person who knows what he is doing and has good judgement. You have said it yourself, if the coach goes, it is up to them to find the "right" coach, and if they don't, then the strategy won't matter too much, will it ? Do you think Santini would have done as decent a job as Jol ?

 

All the clubs could set out such a strategy, but only 2 clubs are going to win the league and the FA Cup, just like now, and those clubs will generally be the ones with the people who know what they are doing the most.

 

I know Comolli is more than a chief scout, but essentially, when spotting players, this is what he is doing and no more. If he makes a poor judgement, or poor judgements, then he's failed. If one of his staff do it, the buck for that stops with him too.

 

Ultimately, the position you describe is one of cycles, football runs in cycles. We are aware that some clubs have been able to look like they have stayed at the top forever, and like everyone else I would like my club to be like those. But realistically, whatever your organisation, at the end of the day the buck stops with one man, and that is the first team manager because this is where people are looking. And only 2 of them will win the 2 major trophies, and 4 or 5 more will qualify for europe.

 

You are right about Allardyce. He will leave Bolton, and it will be seen that it isn't Boltons strategy but Allardyces, or in other words, simply a manager who knows what he has been doing and has exercised good judgement. He will take these qualities to another club, where he may succeed again but also may not. NUFC will appoint a good manager again, maybe Allardyce, while someone above us will make a poor one, and we will swap places. He is the most imporant man in any club, without a good one you are pissing in the wind, and as previously said, the ratio to success in football is wafer thin when only 2 clubs can win the major trophies, and so many modern Newcastle supporters are unable to realise that qualifying for europe is at least the next best thing, and certainly far from s****.

 

As always, anywhere, if your board back your manager, you have a chance, but if they do not, then the best manager in the world will not succeed at this level, you have no chance of anything, and he will leave you.

 

 

 

I think we'll simply have to disagree tbh, I think the course of action has to come before who will be seeing the course of action through.  Santini would never have done as good a job as Jol, not because he is/was a lesser abled coach but because he didn't want to work with the constraints placed upon him by Arnesen and THFC.  The straw which broke the camel's back was Santini wanting to buy an obscure French midfielder whose name I can't remember, Arnesen said no, I'm buying you Carrick instead.  Carrick signed up and never once played for Santini before he left/resigned/was pushed.  MJ took over and Carrick played every game after that, injuries allowing.  That said, Jol is considered at WHL to be nothing more than decent, not great by any stretch of the imagination.  Juande Ramos, Claude Puel or Alex Inglethorpe (who Comolli rates very highly) would probably be the preferred options to replace him although I do know that Allardyce has been mentioned as well.  Whether Big Sam would want to work alongside a DoF I would say is hugely questionable.

 

Of course the coach has a say in who he would like, but whether Comolli or Levy go along with that is another thing, but I don't think Comolli would force a player on a coach like Arnesen did.  Jol would like us to go all out for Barton, Comolli has massive doubts about his temperament, Comolli is keen on Diouf (who is also keen on Spurs) but Jol doesn't fancy that at all.  I don't think either of those will be seriously pursued.

 

The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up.  Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start.  Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group.  Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again.   It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time.

 

....... I think some managers, the more hands on, might baulk at having such a system, but I certainly believe it would be of great benefit at NUFC...

 

Of course, you know with one post you'll have managed to turn at least half a dozen quarrelling NUFC fans into a united anti-THFC front, don't you

 

I've never thought management by committee is a good thing, and I never will do, but there is a lot of benefit in a collection of knowledgeable people contributing to the discussion.  Roeder may be a good coach but he's no strategist and the thought of GR and FFS planning for the future........... well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall tbh.  With your advice also heeded, tin hat is now on!

 

I didn't mean this exactly, even though it is true that currently they operate under different rules. It will take a huge effort for a team to beat both of these though, in the immediate future under current circumstances. Liverpool or Arsenal, the current challengers, could beat one of them but both ? Unlikely.

 

Basically, to put it in one sentence, my view is that whatever the system, the club that succeeds will be the one with the most able person [or people if you like] running the show regardless of it. And there are still only 2 major trophies, which leaves a lot of "failures".

 

I think you know the same as me that Roeder will not be Newcastle a long time. Whether Fred is though, we will have to wait and see. My opinion on this is unchanged. If we appoint a good - or the "right" manager - then we are made because he will be given the backing.

 

The fact that Arsenal and Liverpool have or are about to have new stadiums is exactly what I had in mind when I have said in the past that NUFC should have moved to LeazesPark, or built a new stadium somewhere else in the city. I don't care about the traditional values of staying at SJP, a new home and the chance of building a better future and new traditionss with more chance of being successful far outweighs those considerations.

 

In any case, if the club had shown they had been prepared to move and looked like they meant it, the council would have allowed the club to move to Castle Leazes. Just an opinon, but it would have been interesting to see their reaction.

 

 

[NE5]

 

I know Sheperd is more than a chairman, but essentially, when spotting managers, this is what he is doing and no more. If he makes a poor judgement, or poor judgements, then he's failed. If one of his staff do it, the buck for that stops with him too.

 

 

we should have got that willy woofter from the post office to run NUFC, he would have been ideal.

 

Yes, I know I'm an idiot for saying this.

 

 

mackems.gif

[NE5]

For the last few years the board has been mad eup of ouglas HAll and his sister Alison, Freddie Shepherd and his brother Bruce, and the independent tax accountat Tim Revill who is based in Gibraltar. I feel it is a pointleses exercie to try and attribute blame across any particualr individual as the board as a whole runs the club. The popel to blamd are two members of the Hall family an dtwo memebers of the Shepherd family. To exclude anyone, in particular, or to blame any indidvidual in particular is silly. Collectively they are all equally talented. But I agree that so long as the board back their managers, the club will be back, and Shepherd/the board are doing the right thing and Fred is showing he's a good chairman by doing such things.

 

well said.

 

 

[macbeth]

For the last few years the board has been mad eup of ouglas HAll and his sister Alison, Freddie Shepherd and his brother Bruce, and the independent tax accountat Tim Revill who is based in Gibraltar. I feel it is a pointleses exercie to try and attribute blame across any particualr individual as the board as a whole runs the club. The popel to blamd are two members of the Hall family an dtwo memebers of the Shepherd family. To exclude anyone, in particular, or to blame any indidvidual in particular is silly. Collectively they are all equally talented. But I agree that so long as the board back their managers, the club will be back, and Shepherd/the board are doing the right thing and Fred is showing he's a good chairman by doing such things.

 

well said.

 

 

 

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[Howaythelads]

I was just thinking about some shite I read in another thread and then I unfortunately went to this one......

 

[Martin Lol]

 

Basically, I simply don't agree that it is down to setting out a particular course of action, it boils down to having a person who knows what he is doing and has good judgement. You have said it yourself, if the coach goes, it is up to them to find the "right" coach, and if they don't, then the strategy won't matter too much, will it ? Do you think Santini would have done as decent a job as Jol ?

 

All the clubs could set out such a strategy, but only 2 clubs are going to win the league and the FA Cup, just like now, and those clubs will generally be the ones with the people who know what they are doing the most.

 

I know Comolli is more than a chief scout, but essentially, when spotting players, this is what he is doing and no more. If he makes a poor judgement, or poor judgements, then he's failed. If one of his staff do it, the buck for that stops with him too.

 

Ultimately, the position you describe is one of cycles, football runs in cycles. We are aware that some clubs have been able to look like they have stayed at the top forever, and like everyone else I would like my club to be like those. But realistically, whatever your organisation, at the end of the day the buck stops with one man, and that is the first team manager because this is where people are looking. And only 2 of them will win the 2 major trophies, and 4 or 5 more will qualify for europe.

 

You are right about Allardyce. He will leave Bolton, and it will be seen that it isn't Boltons strategy but Allardyces, or in other words, simply a manager who knows what he has been doing and has exercised good judgement. He will take these qualities to another club, where he may succeed again but also may not. NUFC will appoint a good manager again, maybe Allardyce, while someone above us will make a poor one, and we will swap places. He is the most imporant man in any club, without a good one you are pissing in the wind, and as previously said, the ratio to success in football is wafer thin when only 2 clubs can win the major trophies, and so many modern Newcastle supporters are unable to realise that qualifying for europe is at least the next best thing, and certainly far from s****.

 

As always, anywhere, if your board back your manager, you have a chance, but if they do not, then the best manager in the world will not succeed at this level, you have no chance of anything, and he will leave you.

 

 

 

I think we'll simply have to disagree tbh, I think the course of action has to come before who will be seeing the course of action through.  Santini would never have done as good a job as Jol, not because he is/was a lesser abled coach but because he didn't want to work with the constraints placed upon him by Arnesen and THFC.  The straw which broke the camel's back was Santini wanting to buy an obscure French midfielder whose name I can't remember, Arnesen said no, I'm buying you Carrick instead.  Carrick signed up and never once played for Santini before he left/resigned/was pushed.  MJ took over and Carrick played every game after that, injuries allowing.  That said, Jol is considered at WHL to be nothing more than decent, not great by any stretch of the imagination.  Juande Ramos, Claude Puel or Alex Inglethorpe (who Comolli rates very highly) would probably be the preferred options to replace him although I do know that Allardyce has been mentioned as well.  Whether Big Sam would want to work alongside a DoF I would say is hugely questionable.

 

Of course the coach has a say in who he would like, but whether Comolli or Levy go along with that is another thing, but I don't think Comolli would force a player on a coach like Arnesen did.  Jol would like us to go all out for Barton, Comolli has massive doubts about his temperament, Comolli is keen on Diouf (who is also keen on Spurs) but Jol doesn't fancy that at all.  I don't think either of those will be seriously pursued.

 

The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up. Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start.  Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group.  Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again.  It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time.

 

....... I think some managers, the more hands on, might baulk at having such a system, but I certainly believe it would be of great benefit at NUFC...

 

Of course, you know with one post you'll have managed to turn at least half a dozen quarrelling NUFC fans into a united anti-THFC front, don't you

 

I've never thought management by committee is a good thing, and I never will do, but there is a lot of benefit in a collection of knowledgeable people contributing to the discussion.  Roeder may be a good coach but he's no strategist and the thought of GR and FFS planning for the future........... well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall tbh.  With your advice also heeded, tin hat is now on!

 

I didn't mean this exactly, even though it is true that currently they operate under different rules. It will take a huge effort for a team to beat both of these though, in the immediate future under current circumstances. Liverpool or Arsenal, the current challengers, could beat one of them but both ? Unlikely.

 

Basically, to put it in one sentence, my view is that whatever the system, the club that succeeds will be the one with the most able person [or people if you like] running the show regardless of it. And there are still only 2 major trophies, which leaves a lot of "failures".

 

I think you know the same as me that Roeder will not be Newcastle a long time. Whether Fred is though, we will have to wait and see. My opinion on this is unchanged. If we appoint a good - or the "right" manager - then we are made because he will be given the backing.

 

The fact that Arsenal and Liverpool have or are about to have new stadiums is exactly what I had in mind when I have said in the past that NUFC should have moved to LeazesPark, or built a new stadium somewhere else in the city. I don't care about the traditional values of staying at SJP, a new home and the chance of building a better future and new traditionss with more chance of being successful far outweighs those considerations.

 

In any case, if the club had shown they had been prepared to move and looked like they meant it, the council would have allowed the club to move to Castle Leazes. Just an opinon, but it would have been interesting to see their reaction.

 

 

 

Interesting that you don't care about the traditional values of staying at SJP, I feel very much the same way about WHL, it is situated in an area which is difficult and expensive to develop and at the same time THFC own almost all of the open land to the west of Banbury reservoir going south to Lockwood reservoir.  It must be at least 5 times the size of the current WHL site and only about a mile or so away. 

 

Tradition is all well and good but shouldn't be allowed to stand in the way of progress.  Unfortunately, with this view I am very much in the minority. 

[NE5]

For the last few years the board has been mad eup of ouglas HAll and his sister Alison, Freddie Shepherd and his brother Bruce, and the independent tax accountat Tim Revill who is based in Gibraltar. I feel it is a pointleses exercie to try and attribute blame across any particualr individual as the board as a whole runs the club. The popel to blamd are two members of the Hall family an dtwo memebers of the Shepherd family. To exclude anyone, in particular, or to blame any indidvidual in particular is silly. Collectively they are all equally talented. But I agree that so long as the board back their managers, the club will be back, and Shepherd/the board are doing the right thing and Fred is showing he's a good chairman by doing such things.

 

well said.

 

 

 

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

 

as is obsession

 

 

[NE5]

 

Basically, I simply don't agree that it is down to setting out a particular course of action, it boils down to having a person who knows what he is doing and has good judgement. You have said it yourself, if the coach goes, it is up to them to find the "right" coach, and if they don't, then the strategy won't matter too much, will it ? Do you think Santini would have done as decent a job as Jol ?

 

All the clubs could set out such a strategy, but only 2 clubs are going to win the league and the FA Cup, just like now, and those clubs will generally be the ones with the people who know what they are doing the most.

 

I know Comolli is more than a chief scout, but essentially, when spotting players, this is what he is doing and no more. If he makes a poor judgement, or poor judgements, then he's failed. If one of his staff do it, the buck for that stops with him too.

 

Ultimately, the position you describe is one of cycles, football runs in cycles. We are aware that some clubs have been able to look like they have stayed at the top forever, and like everyone else I would like my club to be like those. But realistically, whatever your organisation, at the end of the day the buck stops with one man, and that is the first team manager because this is where people are looking. And only 2 of them will win the 2 major trophies, and 4 or 5 more will qualify for europe.

 

You are right about Allardyce. He will leave Bolton, and it will be seen that it isn't Boltons strategy but Allardyces, or in other words, simply a manager who knows what he has been doing and has exercised good judgement. He will take these qualities to another club, where he may succeed again but also may not. NUFC will appoint a good manager again, maybe Allardyce, while someone above us will make a poor one, and we will swap places. He is the most imporant man in any club, without a good one you are pissing in the wind, and as previously said, the ratio to success in football is wafer thin when only 2 clubs can win the major trophies, and so many modern Newcastle supporters are unable to realise that qualifying for europe is at least the next best thing, and certainly far from s****.

 

As always, anywhere, if your board back your manager, you have a chance, but if they do not, then the best manager in the world will not succeed at this level, you have no chance of anything, and he will leave you.

 

 

 

I think we'll simply have to disagree tbh, I think the course of action has to come before who will be seeing the course of action through.  Santini would never have done as good a job as Jol, not because he is/was a lesser abled coach but because he didn't want to work with the constraints placed upon him by Arnesen and THFC.  The straw which broke the camel's back was Santini wanting to buy an obscure French midfielder whose name I can't remember, Arnesen said no, I'm buying you Carrick instead.  Carrick signed up and never once played for Santini before he left/resigned/was pushed.  MJ took over and Carrick played every game after that, injuries allowing.  That said, Jol is considered at WHL to be nothing more than decent, not great by any stretch of the imagination.  Juande Ramos, Claude Puel or Alex Inglethorpe (who Comolli rates very highly) would probably be the preferred options to replace him although I do know that Allardyce has been mentioned as well.  Whether Big Sam would want to work alongside a DoF I would say is hugely questionable.

 

Of course the coach has a say in who he would like, but whether Comolli or Levy go along with that is another thing, but I don't think Comolli would force a player on a coach like Arnesen did.  Jol would like us to go all out for Barton, Comolli has massive doubts about his temperament, Comolli is keen on Diouf (who is also keen on Spurs) but Jol doesn't fancy that at all.  I don't think either of those will be seriously pursued.

 

The other thing I think you're wrong with is the belief that just 2 clubs will continue to mop all the trophies up. Chelsea because there will be money to burn if necessary, Man Utd, Arsenal once the rebuilding is complete, that's 3 for a start.  Add to that Liverpool with their new found dollars and new stadium and any team with the ambition to break into that group.  Spurs have been up in the past and could be again with an enlarged stadium, Newcastle even more recently and even more possible for them to do it again.   It's hard to look beyond those 6 (except possibly Everton) but with good direction and a lot of good luck, those 6 could, imo, be top of the pile in 5 years time.

 

....... I think some managers, the more hands on, might baulk at having such a system, but I certainly believe it would be of great benefit at NUFC...

 

Of course, you know with one post you'll have managed to turn at least half a dozen quarrelling NUFC fans into a united anti-THFC front, don't you

 

I've never thought management by committee is a good thing, and I never will do, but there is a lot of benefit in a collection of knowledgeable people contributing to the discussion.  Roeder may be a good coach but he's no strategist and the thought of GR and FFS planning for the future........... well, I'd love to be a fly on the wall tbh.  With your advice also heeded, tin hat is now on!

 

I didn't mean this exactly, even though it is true that currently they operate under different rules. It will take a huge effort for a team to beat both of these though, in the immediate future under current circumstances. Liverpool or Arsenal, the current challengers, could beat one of them but both ? Unlikely.

 

Basically, to put it in one sentence, my view is that whatever the system, the club that succeeds will be the one with the most able person [or people if you like] running the show regardless of it. And there are still only 2 major trophies, which leaves a lot of "failures".

 

I think you know the same as me that Roeder will not be Newcastle a long time. Whether Fred is though, we will have to wait and see. My opinion on this is unchanged. If we appoint a good - or the "right" manager - then we are made because he will be given the backing.

 

The fact that Arsenal and Liverpool have or are about to have new stadiums is exactly what I had in mind when I have said in the past that NUFC should have moved to LeazesPark, or built a new stadium somewhere else in the city. I don't care about the traditional values of staying at SJP, a new home and the chance of building a better future and new traditionss with more chance of being successful far outweighs those considerations.

 

In any case, if the club had shown they had been prepared to move and looked like they meant it, the council would have allowed the club to move to Castle Leazes. Just an opinon, but it would have been interesting to see their reaction.

 

 

 

Interesting that you don't care about the traditional values of staying at SJP, I feel very much the same way about WHL, it is situated in an area which is difficult and expensive to develop and at the same time THFC own almost all of the open land to the west of Banbury reservoir going south to Lockwood reservoir.  It must be at least 5 times the size of the current WHL site and only about a mile or so away. 

 

Tradition is all well and good but shouldn't be allowed to stand in the way of progress.  Unfortunately, with this view I am very much in the minority.   

 

you tend to find this is what happens.

 

If we had moved to Castle Leazes, or somewhere else, we would now have a bigger stadium, costing less to build, and whatever people say, they would have adjusted to it by now and wouldn't really care if they could see the benefits.

 

I know that no stadium is better situated - the only rival is the Millenium stadium - but IMO its the football that counts, I'm not particularly bothered whether or not I sink 10 pints before the game or not.

 

[Guest smoggeordie]

.cock

 

Number 1 St James' Park Development Captures Imagination

 

THE chance to own the most sought-after address in the city has already caught the Geordie imagination.

 

Even though Newcastle United has only just revealed its £300m blueprint for development around St. James' Park, including proposals for a major conference centre, high-class hotels and luxury apartments, the club has already been inundated with inquiries from interested parties.

 

Being able to own the address Number 1 St. James' Park and live so close to the city centre clearly holds massive appeal for many people.

 

Chairman Freddy Shepherd said: "It's barely a week since we revealed plans for what we are convinced will be a wonderful development for the city, and already we've had 500 inquiries.

 

"It shows that the Number 1 St. James Park vision is exciting the people of Newcastle and they want to be part of something that could be really special.

 

"The very fact so many people are already making positive inquiries encourages us to believe there is so much support for what we have proposed.

 

United have outlined a three-phase development that, if approved by Newcastle City Council, could lead to the creation of 1,500 jobs. Funding for the whole development is entirely independent of the club's football operation.

 

Plans have been submitted for Phase One, which will be the opening of a hotel on the site of the former Magpie Supporters Club.

 

Following that, NUFC is proposing a further luxury hotel development and stunning apartments behind the Leazes End of the stadium. Boasting the address Number 1 St. James' Park, these would afford stunning views of the Victorian splendour of the recently-renovated Leazes Park.

 

The third phase of the development would occur at the opposite end of St. James'. United are looking to expand stadium capacity to a minimum of 60,000, with further seating at the Gallowgate End, while on land above St. James' Metro Station the vision is another luxury hotel - again with world class leaders in the field showing interest - plus a 2,500 seater conference centre that would be the pinnacle of the whole development.

 

Mr Shepherd added: "The city misses out at the moment by not having a conference centre that would allow it to bring major international events in all fields to Newcastle.

 

"We are working closely with Newcastle City Council and its officers on this development and we are delighted to have such a progressive working relationship with them."

 

To read more about the Number 1 St. James' Park development, click here.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

you wouldn't believe who wants to live at 1 St James' Park

[Guest Andrew Flintoff]

The manager should live at number 10, in the style of Downing Street

[indi]

you wouldn't believe who wants to live at 1 St James' Park

 

They all want to live at 1 St James' Park.