Talk of an N'Zogbia Transfer request

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Off the top of my head didn't both Ranieri and Houllier (not sure on good ol Gerad tho) say that they would like the job?

 

Both much better than the pigeon

[Baggio]

How stupid is this. Player does well, down to him. Player does s***, down to Roeder. Get a grip lads.

 

I have never once said a player has played s*** due to Roeder.  I have said before the TEAM has played s*** due to Roeder. There is a big difference.

 

No, you said no-one had improved under Roeder. When i gave some examples this was put down to the player not the manager. Same difference tbh.

 

 

They havn`t really improved due to Roeder though have they ?  As I said further up Dyer said it was down to alot of work put in by Saunders. Sibs just got lucky and has looked as crap as before against big sides. Milner was let know that he was playing for his furture at SJP or elsewhere this season.

 

Parker, Zoggy, Emre and Duff have all been a shadow of what they were before Roeder got here or their previous clubs.

 

Zog had his best form under Roeder if you believe some of the s**** on here

 

Ridiculous to claim Parker or Duff had any form to compare to before Roeder

 

Emre has always been Emre tbh

 

If my memory is right Emre and Prker were better players individually under Souness. Duff was certainly better at Chelsea. Zog was better under Robson and Souness than he has been recently.

 

You are completely right and i was going to say the same thing

 

 

N'Zogbia didn't even play under Robson, Parker has been poor under both apart from the odd big performance (Arsenal, Liverpool) and Duff was nothing special for Chelsea last season but it didn't get noticed as much as he was playing in the best team in the country.

[ChezGiven]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty f****** obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that s**** last year to put Roeder in?

 

Here's a one for you. Had we ended last season pretty average and finished more or less where we were when he took over from Souness. Do you...

 

a) Think Shepherd would have still given him the job?

b) If the answer to 'a' is no, would the manager appointed by Shepherd have been better or worse than Roeder?

 

That depends on who he managed to appoint though.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty fucking obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that shite last year to put Roeder in?

So, you have no idea whether or not there were no alternatives then? You're just assuming there weren't.

 

I know there were no alternatives. Hence my post to that effect earlier

[Guest alex]

Getting Roeder suggests to me Shepherd didn't look very hard rather than us ending up with the only bloke who wanted the job.

[Guest alex]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty fucking obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that shite last year to put Roeder in?

So, you have no idea whether or not there were no alternatives then? You're just assuming there weren't.

 

I know there were no alternatives. Hence my post to that effect earlier

Don't be silly Vicky. We've already established your argument is based on supposition.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Getting Roeder suggests to me Shepherd didn't look very hard rather than us ending up with the only bloke who wanted the job.

 

As I also said before, if you can't see the facts infront of your face, you're in for a long dark time ahead

[Guest]

I think it was more just a case of he got swept along (like quite a few fans did), by how he did in the last 14 games or whatever it was last season so gave him the job full-time.

[Guest alex]

Getting Roeder suggests to me Shepherd didn't look very hard rather than us ending up with the only bloke who wanted the job.

 

As I also said before, if you can't see the facts infront of your face, you're in for a long dark time ahead

You haven't supplied a single fact to support your argument.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty fucking obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that shite last year to put Roeder in?

So, you have no idea whether or not there were no alternatives then? You're just assuming there weren't.

 

I know there were no alternatives. Hence my post to that effect earlier

Don't be silly Vicky. We've already established your argument is based on supposition.

 

My apologies. I didn't realise you were basing this discussion on the premise that I am in close written correspondance with Mr. Shepherd.

 

I defer to your superior advantage in being able to read his mind directly.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Getting Roeder suggests to me Shepherd didn't look very hard rather than us ending up with the only bloke who wanted the job.

 

As I also said before, if you can't see the facts infront of your face, you're in for a long dark time ahead

You haven't supplied a single fact to support your argument.

 

Historical evidence are the facts I refer to. What other facts do you use? tribalfootball.com?

[Guest alex]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty fucking obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that shite last year to put Roeder in?

So, you have no idea whether or not there were no alternatives then? You're just assuming there weren't.

 

I know there were no alternatives. Hence my post to that effect earlier

Don't be silly Vicky. We've already established your argument is based on supposition.

 

My apologies. I didn't realise you were basing this discussion on the premise that I am in close written correspondance with Mr. Shepherd.

 

I defer to your superior advantage in being able to read his mind directly.

I'm giving my opinion, you're the one claiming to know the facts here.

[Guest alex]

Getting Roeder suggests to me Shepherd didn't look very hard rather than us ending up with the only bloke who wanted the job.

 

As I also said before, if you can't see the facts infront of your face, you're in for a long dark time ahead

You haven't supplied a single fact to support your argument.

 

Historical evidence are the facts I refer to. What other facts do you use? tribalfootball.com?

What historical evidence is that then?

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I think it was more just a case of he got swept along (like quite a few fans did), by how he did in the last 14 games or whatever it was last season so gave him the job full-time.

 

I think he was smart enough to have seen that as the conveient spin it turned out to be in the end. Preferable to the truth anyway.

[Guest]

So are you telling me that had Roeder's form at the end of last season been like this season, he'd have given him the job full-time? Give over man.

[Guest alex]

I think it was more just a case of he got swept along (like quite a few fans did), by how he did in the last 14 games or whatever it was last season so gave him the job full-time.

 

I think he was smart enough to have seen that as the conveient spin it turned out to be in the end. Preferable to the truth anyway.

That's more like it.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty fucking obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that shite last year to put Roeder in?

So, you have no idea whether or not there were no alternatives then? You're just assuming there weren't.

 

I know there were no alternatives. Hence my post to that effect earlier

Don't be silly Vicky. We've already established your argument is based on supposition.

 

My apologies. I didn't realise you were basing this discussion on the premise that I am in close written correspondance with Mr. Shepherd.

 

I defer to your superior advantage in being able to read his mind directly.

I'm giving my opinion, you're the one claiming to know the facts here.

 

Of course I am. Because I'm right.

[Guest alex]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty fucking obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that shite last year to put Roeder in?

So, you have no idea whether or not there were no alternatives then? You're just assuming there weren't.

 

I know there were no alternatives. Hence my post to that effect earlier

Don't be silly Vicky. We've already established your argument is based on supposition.

 

My apologies. I didn't realise you were basing this discussion on the premise that I am in close written correspondance with Mr. Shepherd.

 

I defer to your superior advantage in being able to read his mind directly.

I'm giving my opinion, you're the one claiming to know the facts here.

 

Of course I am. Because I'm right.

[ChezGiven]

It matters because you claimed there were no alternatives to Roeder. How can you claim that when you don't even know who was (or wasn't) approached?

 

It's pretty fucking obvious isn't it? Roeder is the proof. Or do you still maintain FF beat off a host of trophy winners and stellar managers to doggedly go through all that shite last year to put Roeder in?

So, you have no idea whether or not there were no alternatives then? You're just assuming there weren't.

 

I know there were no alternatives. Hence my post to that effect earlier

Don't be silly Vicky. We've already established your argument is based on supposition.

 

My apologies. I didn't realise you were basing this discussion on the premise that I am in close written correspondance with Mr. Shepherd.

 

I defer to your superior advantage in being able to read his mind directly.

I'm giving my opinion, you're the one claiming to know the facts here.

 

Of course I am. Because I'm right.

 

FYP.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

So are you telling me that had Roeder's form at the end of last season been like this season, he'd have given him the job full-time? Give over man.

 

I don't think his record came into any decision making it until the last knockings of the process, when it served a purpose to do so.

[Cajun]

I agree this is getting pathetic and exactly what I was trying to say. Anything good = everything but Roeder, anything bad = all Roeders fault!

 

When Roeder said he will give everyone a clean slate (including Butt) people were slagging him off. Season nearly over and Butt has been one of our best players, does Roeder get any credit? Nope its all down to Butt!

 

Roeder slagged off for signing Sibierski, although pretty average does a lot more than anyone expected. Does Roeder get any credit? Nope Sibierski got lucky

 

 

I agree that some of the criticism might be a bit over the top. But I am not sure, if Roeder really deserves praise for the likes of Butt and Sibierski. Butt is playing more to his usual standard (although I would still say he is miles away from the form he had a couple of years ago), so I don't think the manager worked wonders here. The same applies for Sibierski. Roeder got a couple of decent performances out of him, nothing less, but certainly also nothing more. Maybe Roeder deserves kind of praise for Dyer's short spell of good performances, which faded away quite quickly though. Of course a manager deserves as much praise for good performances from players as deserving criticism for poor performances. I still think the performances of Butt, Dyer, Sibierski are just in between. Maybe better than expected, still worse than they should be. If they were good, Roeder deserved praise. But they weren't.

 

Why does he deserve no praise for Butt? He could have just gone with the fans and let him leave but he gave him a chance and let him know he was behind him and this has been repaid with performances that will probably make Butt player of the season.

 

I am not claiming Roeder has made Butt the player he is but I thought the whole debate was Roeders handling of players?

[Rebellious]

How stupid is this. Player does well, down to him. Player does shit, down to Roeder. Get a grip lads.

 

I have never once said a player has played shit due to Roeder.  I have said before the TEAM has played shit due to Roeder. There is a big difference.

 

No, you said no-one had improved under Roeder. When i gave some examples this was put down to the player not the manager. Same difference tbh.

 

 

They havn`t really improved due to Roeder though have they ?  As I said further up Dyer said it was down to alot of work put in by Saunders. Sibs just got lucky and has looked as crap as before against big sides. Milner was let know that he was playing for his furture at SJP or elsewhere this season.

 

Parker, Zoggy, Emre and Duff have all been a shadow of what they were before Roeder got here or their previous clubs.

 

Parker and Emre offered nowt to the team under Souness. Cant see how their perfomances this season are 'a shadow of what they were' under Souness tbf.

 

Dyer was tlaking about his finishing skills, not his running on and off the ball or his passing.  

 

 

Sorry got a bit busy there.  I still doubt it was much to do with Roeder, he hasn`t been that different to the odd game under Souness. 

I will ask him later, not that I would put the reply on here but for my own peice of mind.

[Isegrim]

I agree this is getting pathetic and exactly what I was trying to say. Anything good = everything but Roeder, anything bad = all Roeders fault!

 

When Roeder said he will give everyone a clean slate (including Butt) people were slagging him off. Season nearly over and Butt has been one of our best players, does Roeder get any credit? Nope its all down to Butt!

 

Roeder slagged off for signing Sibierski, although pretty average does a lot more than anyone expected. Does Roeder get any credit? Nope Sibierski got lucky

 

 

I agree that some of the criticism might be a bit over the top. But I am not sure, if Roeder really deserves praise for the likes of Butt and Sibierski. Butt is playing more to his usual standard (although I would still say he is miles away from the form he had a couple of years ago), so I don't think the manager worked wonders here. The same applies for Sibierski. Roeder got a couple of decent performances out of him, nothing less, but certainly also nothing more. Maybe Roeder deserves kind of praise for Dyer's short spell of good performances, which faded away quite quickly though. Of course a manager deserves as much praise for good performances from players as deserving criticism for poor performances. I still think the performances of Butt, Dyer, Sibierski are just in between. Maybe better than expected, still worse than they should be. If they were good, Roeder deserved praise. But they weren't.

 

Why does he deserve no praise for Butt? He could have just gone with the fans and let him leave but he gave him a chance and let him know he was behind him and this has been repaid with performances that will probably make Butt player of the season.

 

I am not claiming Roeder has made Butt the player he is but I thought the whole debate was Roeders handling of players?

 

Player of the season in a team where most other players have played well below their standard. Butt hasn't excelled. All Roeder got out of him were "normal" performances. But anything less wouldn't have been acceptable. So all Roeder deserves, is not getting criticized for it, but praise? I do praise people for doing good things, not for doing average things.

[ChezGiven]

How stupid is this. Player does well, down to him. Player does shit, down to Roeder. Get a grip lads.

 

I have never once said a player has played shit due to Roeder.  I have said before the TEAM has played shit due to Roeder. There is a big difference.

 

No, you said no-one had improved under Roeder. When i gave some examples this was put down to the player not the manager. Same difference tbh.

 

 

They havn`t really improved due to Roeder though have they ?  As I said further up Dyer said it was down to alot of work put in by Saunders. Sibs just got lucky and has looked as crap as before against big sides. Milner was let know that he was playing for his furture at SJP or elsewhere this season.

 

Parker, Zoggy, Emre and Duff have all been a shadow of what they were before Roeder got here or their previous clubs.

 

Parker and Emre offered nowt to the team under Souness. Cant see how their perfomances this season are 'a shadow of what they were' under Souness tbf.

 

Dyer was tlaking about his finishing skills, not his running on and off the ball or his passing.  

 

 

Sorry got a bit busy there.  I still doubt it was much to do with Roeder, he hasn`t been that different to the odd game under Souness. 

I will ask him later, not that I would put the reply on here but for my own peice of mind.

 

Ask who? Dyer?

[Guest]

So are you telling me that had Roeder's form at the end of last season been like this season, he'd have given him the job full-time? Give over man.

 

I don't think his record came into any decision making it until the last knockings of the process, when it served a purpose to do so.

 

I don't think Shepherd had any intention of giving him the job when Souness first left. The fact he did well last season just gave him an easy option.