Gallowgate End Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Thought it was best to start a thread instead of carrying on the debate in the pre match Chelsea thread. Gallowgate, can you explain the thinking behind playing Parker & Emre? I can't understand: a. Dropping Nicky Butt, consistently our best player this season. b. Playing Parker as a defensive midfielder when he doesn't possess several of the basic attributes required. c. Playing the two together when partnerships of Butt & Emre, Butt & Dyer, and even Butt & Parker have all looked more effective. and No. It won't. Never ceases to amaze that people bang on about Parker as a defensive midfielder when he has no attributes of a quality defensive midfielder. There is more to it than effort and sweat. and Parker doesn't have any attributes of a quality DM. First of all I don't and won't subscribe to the consistent and baffling criticism of our Clubs Captain it seems on this Forum let me make that clear. On Nate's questions. a/b.) I would agree Nicky Butt has been one of our better performers this season and i highly value his worth to the squad that is a positionally disciplined defensive midfielder who will break up oppositions attacks however in my opinion if given the Role by Glenn Roeder himself Scott Parker for me is a better all round Defensive Midfielder we saw that in his player of the season performances under Souness in the Defensive Midfield role and also this season with his far superior Tackling and Tackling success rate. c.) I would agree also the partnerships of Butt & Emre and Butt & Parker have shown better performances then that of when Parker and Emre have played together (not been often) however this is due to the fact in my opinion that Roeder needs to realize that to see the best of both Parker and Emre as individual players and that of a partnership then must be given the Right Roles. For the Partnership of Parker and Emre to work to its best Roeder needs to make clear in this partnership Parker has the (DCM) role which is to break up play and track attacking runners from the oppositions midfield (a role in which Parker flourished and got player of the season under Souness and also this season with a different role but still demonstrating his tackling and breaking up play abilities), and Emre is to be given a role (ACM) by Roeder to dictate attacking moves much more in the oppositions half something i have to add we are starting to see more of. On HTL bizarre analysis of (not seeing how people think Parker has the capabilities as a Defensive Midfielder), One did you not watch our Captains performances as a Defensive Midfielder when getting player of the season under Souness? Number two did you not know our Clubs Captains has the -Highest Tackling Rate- in the whole of the Premiership and 2nd -Highest Tackling Success Rate- in the whole of the Premiership? (http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=256196&lid=1533&clid=&channel=Football+Home&title=Opta+Stats) to even suggest Scott Parker has not got the abilities to play Defensive Midfield when its clear he has is bizarre. But our Captains is from London is that not what its really about? Also un surprisingly our Captain has not only the -Highest Tackling rate and Highest Tackling Success rate- in the Premiership but at our Club. -Nufc Opta Stats- Tackling Player Tackles Tackle Success rate% 1 Scott Parker 162 79.0% 2 Nicky Butt 93 66.7% Not only that our Captain is the most superior out of the two at the Club at -Passing and Passing Success rate- but also the most superior at the whole Club. -Nufc Opta Stats- Passing Player Passes Pass Success rate % 1 Scott Parker 1,121 79.0% 2 Nicky Butt 975 72.7% Scott Parker is our Newcastle United Captain and Captain for the right reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon_Crazy Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 My observation is that Howaythelads hates Scott Parker with passion greater then his passion for NUFC I dont know why but every time when he has the opportunity he is criticising Parker saying how shit he is and he needs to be sold asap. Its obvious that he has the required abilities to be a top DM and this season's poor form is maybe because of Roeder's incompetent coaching methods and the fact that he doenst know where exactly is Parker's strongest position on the field. Im sure that under the right management Parker will prove that he is top class Premiership player. Dont forget that he is our captain and whether we like this or not and whether he is the right man for this role or not at least we can show some support... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skryp2nit3 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 While Butt has been consistent this season, he does not show for the ball at times when we have possession, instead he'll be walking along and not get involved. It does my head in and it does limit our passing options in midfield. Having said that, I'm not sure if Parker would have done better with his little pirouettes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 He's fucking shit! An observation built from seeing the twat do next to fuck all game after game with exception of spreading negativity throughout the team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 He's f****** s***! An observation built from seeing the t*** do next to f*** all game after game with exception of spreading negativity throughout the team Sshhh. The Bulgarian who has never seen Parker play will accuse you of hating him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfmag Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Thought it was best to start a thread instead of carrying on the debate in the pre match Chelsea thread. Gallowgate, can you explain the thinking behind playing Parker & Emre? I can't understand: a. Dropping Nicky Butt, consistently our best player this season. b. Playing Parker as a defensive midfielder when he doesn't possess several of the basic attributes required. c. Playing the two together when partnerships of Butt & Emre, Butt & Dyer, and even Butt & Parker have all looked more effective. and No. It won't. Never ceases to amaze that people bang on about Parker as a defensive midfielder when he has no attributes of a quality defensive midfielder. There is more to it than effort and sweat. and Parker doesn't have any attributes of a quality DM. First of all I don't and won't subscribe to the consistent and baffling criticism of our Clubs Captain it seems on this Forum let me make that clear. On Nate's questions. a/b.) I would agree Nicky Butt has been one of our better performers this season and i highly value his worth to the squad that is a positionally disciplined defensive midfielder who will break up oppositions attacks however in my opinion if given the Role by Glenn Roeder himself Scott Parker for me is a better all round Defensive Midfielder we saw that in his player of the season performances under Souness in the Defensive Midfield role and also this season with his far superior Tackling and Tackling success rate. c.) I would agree also the partnerships of Butt & Emre and Butt & Parker have shown better performances then that of when Parker and Emre have played together (not been often) however this is due to the fact in my opinion that Roeder needs to realize that to see the best of both Parker and Emre as individual players and that of a partnership then must be given the Right Roles. For the Partnership of Parker and Emre to work to its best Roeder needs to make clear in this partnership Parker has the (DCM) role which is to break up play and track attacking runners from the oppositions midfield (a role in which Parker flourished and got player of the season under Souness and also this season with a different role but still demonstrating his tackling and breaking up play abilities), and Emre is to be given a role (ACM) by Roeder to dictate attacking moves much more in the oppositions half something i have to add we are starting to see more of. On HTL bizarre analysis of (not seeing how people think Parker has the capabilities as a Defensive Midfielder), One did you not watch our Captains performances as a Defensive Midfielder when getting player of the season under Souness? Number two did you not know our Clubs Captains has the -Highest Tackling Rate- in the whole of the Premiership and 2nd -Highest Tackling Success Rate- in the whole of the Premiership? (http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=256196&lid=1533&clid=&channel=Football+Home&title=Opta+Stats) to even suggest Scott Parker has not got the abilities to play Defensive Midfield when its clear he has is bizarre. But our Captains is from London is that not what its really about? Also un surprisingly our Captain has not only the -Highest Tackling rate and Highest Tackling Success rate- in the Premiership but at our Club. -Nufc Opta Stats- Tackling Player Tackles Tackle Success rate% 1 Scott Parker 162 79.0% 2 Nicky Butt 93 66.7% Not only that our Captain is the most superior out of the two at the Club at -Passing and Passing Success rate- but also the most superior at the whole Club. -Nufc Opta Stats- Passing Player Passes Pass Success rate % 1 Scott Parker 1,121 79.0% 2 Nicky Butt 975 72.7% Scott Parker is our Newcastle United Captain and Captain for the right reasons. Great stats. Might shut all the ignorant f...rs on here up. Although I doubt it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 He's f****** s***! An observation built from seeing the t*** do next to f*** all game after game with exception of spreading negativity throughout the team Sshhh. The Bulgarian who has never seen Parker play will accuse you of hating him. Bulgaria may be a shithole in almost every other social aspect of life, but we get like 7 premiership games live every weekend for free, which is enough to form an adequate opinion on football matters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Thought it was best to start a thread instead of carrying on the debate in the pre match Chelsea thread. Gallowgate, can you explain the thinking behind playing Parker & Emre? I can't understand: a. Dropping Nicky Butt, consistently our best player this season. b. Playing Parker as a defensive midfielder when he doesn't possess several of the basic attributes required. c. Playing the two together when partnerships of Butt & Emre, Butt & Dyer, and even Butt & Parker have all looked more effective. and No. It won't. Never ceases to amaze that people bang on about Parker as a defensive midfielder when he has no attributes of a quality defensive midfielder. There is more to it than effort and sweat. and Parker doesn't have any attributes of a quality DM. First of all I don't and won't subscribe to the consistent and baffling criticism of our Clubs Captain it seems on this Forum let me make that clear. On Nate's questions. a/b.) I would agree Nicky Butt has been one of our better performers this season and i highly value his worth to the squad that is a positionally disciplined defensive midfielder who will break up oppositions attacks however in my opinion if given the Role by Glenn Roeder himself Scott Parker for me is a better all round Defensive Midfielder we saw that in his player of the season performances under Souness in the Defensive Midfield role and also this season with his far superior Tackling and Tackling success rate. c.) I would agree also the partnerships of Butt & Emre and Butt & Parker have shown better performances then that of when Parker and Emre have played together (not been often) however this is due to the fact in my opinion that Roeder needs to realize that to see the best of both Parker and Emre as individual players and that of a partnership then must be given the Right Roles. For the Partnership of Parker and Emre to work to its best Roeder needs to make clear in this partnership Parker has the (DCM) role which is to break up play and track attacking runners from the oppositions midfield (a role in which Parker flourished and got player of the season under Souness and also this season with a different role but still demonstrating his tackling and breaking up play abilities), and Emre is to be given a role (ACM) by Roeder to dictate attacking moves much more in the oppositions half something i have to add we are starting to see more of. On HTL bizarre analysis of (not seeing how people think Parker has the capabilities as a Defensive Midfielder), One did you not watch our Captains performances as a Defensive Midfielder when getting player of the season under Souness? Number two did you not know our Clubs Captains has the -Highest Tackling Rate- in the whole of the Premiership and 2nd -Highest Tackling Success Rate- in the whole of the Premiership? (http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=256196&lid=1533&clid=&channel=Football+Home&title=Opta+Stats) to even suggest Scott Parker has not got the abilities to play Defensive Midfield when its clear he has is bizarre. But our Captains is from London is that not what its really about? Also un surprisingly our Captain has not only the -Highest Tackling rate and Highest Tackling Success rate- in the Premiership but at our Club. -Nufc Opta Stats- Tackling Player Tackles Tackle Success rate% 1 Scott Parker 162 79.0% 2 Nicky Butt 93 66.7% Not only that our Captain is the most superior out of the two at the Club at -Passing and Passing Success rate- but also the most superior at the whole Club. -Nufc Opta Stats- Passing Player Passes Pass Success rate % 1 Scott Parker 1,121 79.0% 2 Nicky Butt 975 72.7% Scott Parker is our Newcastle United Captain and Captain for the right reasons. Great stats. Might shut all the ignorant f...rs on here up. Although I doubt it. Do the stats reveal how many of Parkers tackles are him retrieving the ball he has given away? No - so fuck off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Problem with the original post is that tackling stats fail to prove a player is an effective or good defensive midfielder, since positioning, discipline, and reading of the game are as important, if not more important, than the ability to win the ball cleanly. Butt has those attributes, whilst it looks like Parker lacks them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Great stats. Might shut all the ignorant f...rs on here up. Although I doubt it. Stats tell you very little, that you think they do means you should stick to golf. He's hopeless. He's on his arse half the game, he slows down our game like nobody I've ever seen because he has no reading of the game, anticipation or vision. He doesn't know what's around him until he's got the ball and takes a look, it's why he continually spins full circle. A quality player in his position often moves the ball straight on without controlling it, they act like a wall, the ball is moved on at speed with just one touch because they know what they're going to do before the ball even reaches them. You can disagree with me and I won't call you an ignorant fucker for doing so. That's your style. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Great stats. Might shut all the ignorant f...rs on here up. Although I doubt it. Stats tell you very little, that you think they do means you should stick to golf. He's hopeless. He's on his arse half the game, he slows down our game like nobody I've ever seen because he has no reading of the game, anticipation or vision. He doesn't know what's around him until he's got the ball and takes a look, it's why he continually spins full circle. A quality player in his position often moves the ball straight on without controlling it, they act like a wall, the ball is moved on at speed with just one touch because they know what they're going to do before the ball even reaches them. You can disagree with me and I won't call you an ignorant fucker for doing so. That's your style. Cheers It is not Parkers fault that our team have a total lack of movement. Ever thought that Parker has to do his spins because NO ONE is moving? Also, I believe that you (maybe not literally you, but the Parker hating bandwaggon) have been saying all season that Butt's passing is superior to Parkers. You CANNOT argue with the stats that says Parker is the better passer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Great stats. Might shut all the ignorant f...rs on here up. Although I doubt it. Stats tell you very little, that you think they do means you should stick to golf. He's hopeless. He's on his arse half the game, he slows down our game like nobody I've ever seen because he has no reading of the game, anticipation or vision. He doesn't know what's around him until he's got the ball and takes a look, it's why he continually spins full circle. A quality player in his position often moves the ball straight on without controlling it, they act like a wall, the ball is moved on at speed with just one touch because they know what they're going to do before the ball even reaches them. You can disagree with me and I won't call you an ignorant fucker for doing so. That's your style. Cheers It is not Parkers fault that our team have a total lack of movement. Ever thought that Parker has to do his spins because NO ONE is moving? Also, I believe that you (maybe not literally you, but the Parker hating bandwaggon) have been saying all season that Butt's passing is superior to Parkers. You CANNOT argue with the stats that says Parker is the better passer. Yes I can argue with daft stats that show Parker can pass better than Butt because stats don't tell you anything about the pass. The passing ability of Butt is not the best but it is vastly superior to that of Parker. Butt often does exactly what I've just described above, he regularly moves the ball on quickly. Parker hardly ever moves the ball on without taking about 3 touches at least, it is simply not good enough. That he can accurately find someone probably no more than a few yards away after that 3rd touch doesn't mean he is a quality footballer. That Parker puts in more tackles than Butt doesn't show he's a better tackler, it just shows he has to tackle more often, which rather than saying he's a better tackler could just as easily mean his reading of the game and anticipation are worse than Butt. There are all kinds of ways to interpret stats and people will interpret them the way that suits their argument, which is why they should in the main be ignored. The best way to judge is to just watch the football and leave the stats to those who don't really have a clue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I'll keep typing it. Parker=Jenas.......Average. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Parker is a good player but he absolute shit when he is put in DM just behind Emre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Parker = good player, potential to be a good defensive midfielder. Not top-class and never will be though. Certainly more than good enough for this NUFC team though and I like him and think half the stick he gets is pathetic and in no way deserving, given he's one of only a handful who at least tries and looks like losses mean something to him. Official scapegoat 2007. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 BTW I don't think he's the best Captain and he wouldn't be my first choice for that role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Parker is a good player but he absolute shit when he is put in DM just behind Emre. Problem with that is Souness always told them to switch and share roles and Roeder always told Emre to be the one to sit deeper. Parker needs to be given the defined role as DM and Emre to stay up and stop dropping so deep. Still might not work but would be better than it has at times! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Great stats. Might shut all the ignorant f...rs on here up. Although I doubt it. Stats tell you very little, that you think they do means you should stick to golf. He's hopeless. He's on his arse half the game, he slows down our game like nobody I've ever seen because he has no reading of the game, anticipation or vision. He doesn't know what's around him until he's got the ball and takes a look, it's why he continually spins full circle. A quality player in his position often moves the ball straight on without controlling it, they act like a wall, the ball is moved on at speed with just one touch because they know what they're going to do before the ball even reaches them. You can disagree with me and I won't call you an ignorant fucker for doing so. That's your style. Cheers It is not Parkers fault that our team have a total lack of movement. Ever thought that Parker has to do his spins because NO ONE is moving? Also, I believe that you (maybe not literally you, but the Parker hating bandwaggon) have been saying all season that Butt's passing is superior to Parkers. You CANNOT argue with the stats that says Parker is the better passer. Yes I can argue with daft stats that show Parker can pass better than Butt because stats don't tell you anything about the pass. The passing ability of Butt is not the best but it is vastly superior to that of Parker. Butt often does exactly what I've just described above, he regularly moves the ball on quickly. Parker hardly ever moves the ball on without taking about 3 touches at least, it is simply not good enough. That he can accurately find someone probably no more than a few yards away after that 3rd touch doesn't mean he is a quality footballer. That Parker puts in more tackles than Butt doesn't show he's a better tackler, it just shows he has to tackle more often, which rather than saying he's a better tackler could just as easily mean his reading of the game and anticipation are worse than Butt. There are all kinds of ways to interpret stats and people will interpret them the way that suits their argument, which is why they should in the main be ignored. The best way to judge is to just watch the football and leave the stats to those who don't really have a clue. Considering your conclusion and your opinion about Parker i have to say that you really know too little about football. Its no surprise that you are 13 years old He is not as shit as you descibe him Yes he is not the new Roy Keane but he is a good player and can develop under the right coaching And finally he is playing with passion and is giving 100% every game We have alot of players in our squad that dont give a fuck I had rather have 11 fighters like Parker instead of 11 Duff's,Bramble's,Carr's etc. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kenton Magpie Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 He has been poor this season but he is far from being s**** and I am his biggest fan, there will be a time in the non to distant future we will rely on Scotty i'm sure, so slating him and bashing his confidence isnt going to help. I might be in the minority but when the jumpers wish to jump on the I love scott parker bandwagon again make sure it's for the right reason and not just following the opinion of the fans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begbie Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I dont think parker is a great captain. Shearer was a great captain, and that wasnt because he was a good football player. A captain needs to be a leader, like Roy Keane, Shearer, and Gerrard. They need to talk to rest, motivate them, work their socks off for the club. I dont think we have any players with those abilities, Taylor and Butt are the closes ones in my eyes to be the captain. I think Taylor should have a go at Captain, it could be good for him and the rest of the team. He seems to me to be a player that speaks up, and he often looks motivated and energic. Butt is more of a quiet player, and I think he might have what it takes, but I think he is better when he can focus on just himself. For me Parker is a good player, but you dont see him running around like Shearer and Keane trying to get the ppl to focus on the game. Or run around like a mad man chasining the ball and trying to lift the team. We need a leader, and should really focus on getting one. Right now we have followers, but noone to lead our players. Give us a young Keane or Gerrard.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 But our Captains is from London is that not what its really about? Rubbish. Rob Lee was captain for quite a while and got no hassle because he was a class player, whereas it's debatable as to whether Parker is even one of our best two midfielders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I dont think parker is a great captain. Shearer was a great captain, and that wasnt because he was a good football player. A captain needs to be a leader, like Roy Keane, Shearer, and Gerrard. They need to talk to rest, motivate them, work their socks off for the club. I dont think we have any players with those abilities, Taylor and Butt are the closes ones in my eyes to be the captain. I think Taylor should have a go at Captain, it could be good for him and the rest of the team. He seems to me to be a player that speaks up, and he often looks motivated and energic. Butt is more of a quiet player, and I think he might have what it takes, but I think he is better when he can focus on just himself. For me Parker is a good player, but you dont see him running around like Shearer and Keane trying to get the ppl to focus on the game. Or run around like a mad man chasining the ball and trying to lift the team. We need a leader, and should really focus on getting one. Right now we have followers, but noone to lead our players. Give us a young Keane or Gerrard.... I think Roeder said a couple of weeks ago that our players aren't talking enough, but that Parker was one of the few that was actually talking. This could of coure be some trademark Roeder bullshit and just him covering for making Parker captain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Petay Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Ah I recall last season I had the nerve to post on here that I thought Carrick was better than Parker, the forum got turned blue for a good hour or two with people calling me everything under the sun and saying how wrong I was. Anyway thats beside the point, I think the Parker and Emre partnership can work if Parker is a DM, I say this because I was at the Villa-Toon game last season where those two won us that game from midfield. Roeder and Parker need to get this box to box tosh out of their heads quick and get Parker back where he belongs DM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I believe that Parker is being utilised in the wrong way. If Roeder played him as a defensive midfielder as Souness did he may give us better performances. However Butt has been fantastic whatever the stats say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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