ElDiablo Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I think Martins to a certain extent is a luxury player, but because he's all we've had this season he was expected to do the disciplined role like say Shearer's, which he can't do and so therefore has looked a tad shite as some points, I'd like to see him upfront with Viduka. So he doesn't have to link the play up or recieve with his back to goal, that's not what he's about imo. I'm looking forward to seeing him in a good partnership next season, then I think we'll see what he can do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins isn't in the same class he was even in his first season, but I think Henry is an excellent example of a player's movement, vision and all round game improving (adaptation to a new league to be taken as part of that improvement) from a promising player of 22 who wasn't quite the finished article yet. I am by no means stating that the same thing will or even could happen to Oba, but it seems a bit much to say he will not improve as a player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Comparing Martins to Kluivert then comparing him to Henry, in an attempt to decipher whether he's good enough for us. Wowzar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I didn't compare him to Henry. I stated Henry as an example of someone who's improved in this league since age 22, in response to claims he won't improve. Don't let that get in the way of your posting though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I didn't compare him to Henry. I stated Henry as an example of someone who's improved in this league since age 22, in response to claims he won't improve. Don't let that get in the way of your posting though. Henry's basic game at the same age wasnt as hit and miss as Martins' is though, even when Henry was struggling. I think the concerns about Martins are sound. Its not about adapting, or settling - its the fact that his decision making and basic movement can be really, really poor at times. Hate to bang on about him, but look at Tevez as an example. Earlier on in the season, he was completely off form compared to what he is now. He hadnt settled, he hadnt adjusted, first season in the Premiership, young, wasnt scoring, team playing badly, etc etc. But his basic game was still very good. His first touch, control, movement, intelligence on the ball, decision making - it was all there, and all at a good standard, just the positioning, knowledge of how to play against Premiership defenders, luck, and to an extent confidence, were all missing. Theres a difference in the adjusting/settling Martins needs to make compared to those of players who have gone on to be top forwards in this league whilst struggling at the start. Not to say he wont sort it out, he might and he can easily go on to be a top, top player like eg Eto'o (who even today is still hit and miss and often a "wild" player, although his composure has gone up tenfold in recent years). But the concerns are vaild - if Martins doesnt improve these aspects of his game, then hes not someone you can build around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I didn't compare him to Henry. I stated Henry as an example of someone who's improved in this league since age 22, in response to claims he won't improve. Don't let that get in the way of your posting though. Henry's basic game at the same age wasnt as hit and miss as Martins' is though, even when Henry was struggling. I think the concerns about Martins are sound. Its not about adapting, or settling - its the fact that his decision making and basic movement can be really, really poor at times. Hate to bang on about him, but look at Tevez as an example. Earlier on in the season, he was completely off form compared to what he is now. He hadnt settled, he hadnt adjusted, first season in the Premiership, young, wasnt scoring, team playing badly, etc etc. But his basic game was still very good. His first touch, control, movement, intelligence on the ball, decision making - it was all there, and all at a good standard, just the positioning, knowledge of how to play against Premiership defenders, luck, and to an extent confidence, were all missing. Theres a difference in the adjusting/settling Martins needs to make compared to those of players who have gone on to be top forwards in this league whilst struggling at the start. Not to say he wont sort it out, he might and he can easily go on to be a top, top player like eg Eto'o (who even today is still hit and miss and often a "wild" player, although his composure has gone up tenfold in recent years). But the concerns are vaild - if Martins doesnt improve these aspects of his game, then hes not someone you can build around. head on nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Did Henry have the vision and awareness he has now when he first arrived from Juventus? Nope. How old was Henry when he came to Arsenal? 22 years old. Anelka was said to be better than Henry in their early 20's. Parky man, Anelka again?! Obsession, no doubt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 decision making, basic movement and first touch have looked absolutely awful for the most part of the season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So have people decided that he's the finished article/can improve already or is anyone avoiding making a definitive statement for fear of being quoted on it years later? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So have people decided that he's the finished article/can improve already or is anyone avoiding making a definitive statement for fear of being quoted on it years later? No Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 IMO, Martins has been "good" this season. Not great, but better than average. We've seen him have terrific games, and we've seen him have terrible games. This is all in a team managed by probably the worst manager in the league and surrounded by under performing players. What is it that says that if the rest of the team was under performing, didn't Martins do the same? I'm fairly sure that Allardyce can improve on Martin's Excellent-Games ratio, witch will make Martins worth a lot more than the £10m we paid for him. And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. What are they feeding you over there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 IMO, Martins has been "good" this season. Not great, but better than average. We've seen him have terrific games, and we've seen him have terrible games. This is all in a team managed by probably the worst manager in the league and surrounded by under performing players. What is it that says that if the rest of the team was under performing, didn't Martins do the same? I'm fairly sure that Allardyce can improve on Martin's Excellent-Games ratio, witch will make Martins worth a lot more than the £10m we paid for him. And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. Actually I'd say, all things considered, average rather than good is probably about right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. What are they feeding you over there? A daily-dosage of fuck off. And fair enough alex, to each is own, my points still stand though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. What are they feeding you over there? A daily-dosage of fuck off. With meatballs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. What are they feeding you over there? A daily-dosage of fuck off. With meatballs? Haha, you're so very funny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. What are they feeding you over there? A daily-dosage of fuck off. With meatballs? Haha, you're so very funny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 And yes, Gemmil, I CAN see this from Sweden. What are they feeding you over there? A daily-dosage of fuck off. And fair enough alex, to each is own, my points still stand though. I don't think he stood out in a poor side mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So have people decided that he's the finished article/can improve already or is anyone avoiding making a definitive statement for fear of being quoted on it years later? No Ok, dig this up when you need to....Martins will never be as good as Anelka or Henry but he will become slightly better than Bent. If they both stay his partnership with Owen won't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So have people decided that he's the finished article/can improve already or is anyone avoiding making a definitive statement for fear of being quoted on it years later? No Ok, dig this up when you need to....Martins will never be as good as Anelka or Henry but he will become slightly better than Bent. If they both stay his partnership with Owen won't work. Thank you for having balls. my final analysis: Martins will develop into either a world beater for us or for someone else after we flog him off for £20m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So have people decided that he's the finished article/can improve already or is anyone avoiding making a definitive statement for fear of being quoted on it years later? No Ok, dig this up when you need to....Martins will never be as good as Anelka or Henry but he will become slightly better than Bent. If they both stay his partnership with Owen won't work. He'll never be as good as Henry, not many are. As good as Anelka on his prime I think he could reach. We're better off keeping him than buying Anelka. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 He'll never be a world-beater imo. No fucking way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 He'll never be a world-beater imo. No fucking way. Panel beater more likely tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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