Yorkie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Kluivert had class though. I'd say Kluivert in his season here was a lot better than Martins last season. Now there's someone who isn't a fan of Martins. For one thing, atleast Martins has actually been on the fucking field for more than half the season. Tbf, Kluivert should have played lots of matches up front with Bellamy but shithead didn't have the balls to drop Shearer. True, but he didn't give a shit and he was always injured. The guy had undoubted class, Patrick Kluivert was one of Europe's best strikers for years, but he'd lost it. I that his past two seasons are merely proof of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I don't think Martins could ever be world class, but he could become a very very good player for us under the right conditions. Ideally I'd like to see him stay; he's shown glimpses of how good he could be (particularly at home to AZ), and I'd love him to start doing it here on a more regular basis. I'd be disappointed if he left, but an offer of £13m+ would be very hard to turn down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I know one thing - I'm miles more confident in him developing under Allardyce than under the clown that's been coaching him so far. I once listened to a 5 minute interview from Michael Ricketts on John Barnes' Football show talking in length about the techniques Big Sam used to turn him from a lower league player at Wallsall to an England player in the space of a few years and he talked about attention to detail in analysing his game and performances in training, pre and post match, technical coaches appointed to work on his and others' games and by instilling a real hunger and thirst for learning and knowledge. Now Ricketts was always a poor player, but for one season he was immense and that was all down to coaching and an appettitie to work hard to improve. Apply those methods to someone with Martins' talents... Fine, but you can't teach vision and awareness. I couldn't disagree more, although I used to think like that too until I got interested in coaching. I've seen it with my own eyes, proof that you can indeed teach vision and awareness. Well actually you can't, not in that sense, but what you can do is open the mind and eyes to these things and work with a player to explore these areas. BTW nowt wrong with his vision and awareness at home to AZ or at the Emirates when he set up Dyer. People exaggerate these things. Aye he's no Beardsley fair enough but not many are. See Toontownman's post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Kluivert scored 13. I was one who wouldn't have minded seeing him being kept on (i was naive), as i don't think he had the hurrendously bad season that some make out, but to say that he was better than Martins is a very, very surprising statement to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. You must have expected an idiotic response. The record book states he played 25 games and scored 13 goals. Not bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Kluivert looked a class act up until Shearer returned from that injury and he just lost all motivation and came back a right fat cunt. Remember one week I was out 4 nights on the trot and so was good old Paddy, model professional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Kluivert looked a class act up until Shearer returned from that injury and he just lost all motivation and came back a right fat cunt. Remember one week I was out 4 nights on the trot and so was good old Paddy, model professional. I'd probably believe that aswell. And the first bit is the absolute truth. Aye, he should have been playing instead of Shearer, but he spent too much time on the injury table (baring in mind that Shearer had a three-month stint out), and couldn't give a shit. Martins has done better than him in so many ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. You must have expected an idiotic response. The record book states he played 25 games and scored 13 goals. Not bad. 6 goals in the premiership though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 TBH, i can't even believe i'm debating this - so i'm just not gonna bother. I think you're a cracking poster and definitely one of the more knowledgeable ones here, Nut, but nah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. You must have expected an idiotic response. The record book states he played 25 games and scored 13 goals. Not bad. The 25 was in the league, with 6 goals. Got a couple in cups too, notably those big two against Spurs and Chelsea. His UEFA cup record was 5 in 6, which was excellent - however, when you consider that 4 of those 5 came across a team of peasants from an Israeli mountain village, it doesn't look quite as good. He wasn't given a fair crack of the whip due to Shearer's undroppable status but sometimes didn't do himself any favours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 BTW nowt wrong with his vision and awareness at home to AZ or at the Emirates when he set up Dyer. People exaggerate these things. Aye he's no Beardsley fair enough but not many are. See Toontownman's post. I am not sure which side is the one exaggerating. The ones who point to the occasional exception where he showed that kind of attributes or those who point to the rule and the apparent lack of natural awareness (which I agree with HTL is difficult to teach). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. You must have expected an idiotic response. The record book states he played 25 games and scored 13 goals. Not bad. 6 goals in the premiership though mackems.gif 11 goals in 32 PL games for Martins 6 goals in 15 PL games for Kluivert Do the calculation, since you like to work from statistics. Kluiverts all round game was better as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 BTW nowt wrong with his vision and awareness at home to AZ or at the Emirates when he set up Dyer. People exaggerate these things. Aye he's no Beardsley fair enough but not many are. See Toontownman's post. I am not sure which side is the one exaggerating. The ones who point to the occasional exception where he showed that kind of attributes or those who point to the rule and the apparent lack of natural awareness (which I agree with HTL is difficult to teach). True, but it does seem like his flaws are exaggerated or rather talked about more than his strengths. I mean you have some people who practically think it's impossible for him now to get any better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. You must have expected an idiotic response. The record book states he played 25 games and scored 13 goals. Not bad. The 25 was in the league, with 6 goals. Got a couple in cups too, notably those big two against Spurs and Chelsea. His UEFA cup record was 5 in 6, which was excellent - however, when you consider that 4 of those 5 came across a team of peasants from an Israeli mountain village, it doesn't look quite as good. He wasn't given a fair crack of the whip due to Shearer's undroppable status but sometimes didn't do himself any favours. He started 15 games in the league, not 25. The rest of your post explains why I think stats are bollocks, so talk to your mate nufc06. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. You must have expected an idiotic response. The record book states he played 25 games and scored 13 goals. Not bad. 6 goals in the premiership though mackems.gif 11 goals in 32 PL games for Martins 6 goals in 15 PL games for Kluivert Do the calculation, since you like to work from statistics. Kluiverts all round game was better as well. Agree with this as well. He looked a great partner for Bellamy, and even played okay alongside Shearer (or at least scored goals when he played). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Think Wullie means he played 25... not started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 He started 15 games in the league, not 25. The rest of your post explains why I think stats are bollocks, Yet it was your primary argument response in your previous post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Did Henry have the vision and awareness he has now when he first arrived from Juventus? Nope. How old was Henry when he came to Arsenal? 22 years old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 What's clouding the issue here is the transfer fee. People are looking for a £10m player and he has only looked that in fits and starts. In all honesty none of us can truly say how he will turn out, I expect a modest improvement and one or two stand out seasons. He has gone up in value and will never be the ideal partner for Owen, so if someone does offer even £12m I'd take it. *Slightly better than Garth Crooks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 He started 15 games in the league, not 25. The rest of your post explains why I think stats are bollocks, Yet it was your primary argument response in your previous post. You'll have to explain, as I don't know what you're on about. I somehow doubt I was the first one talking about games played and goals scored, but if that's what you want to believe then go ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Did Henry have the vision and awareness he has now when he first arrived from Juventus? Nope. How old was Henry when he came to Arsenal? 22 years old. Anelka was said to be better than Henry in their early 20's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Martins is a decent player. Certainly not a £10-15m one though which is why I'd accept any offer for him in that region. But Kluivert did just as well for us, if not even better (didn't he score 14-15 himself?), and generally played better. 25 games=6 goals for Kluivert Ah right, so you use 17 goals for Martins (ie, his UEFA Cup goals too), but ignore Kluivert's (not forgetting his FA Cup goals). That's fair. You must have expected an idiotic response. The record book states he played 25 games and scored 13 goals. Not bad. 6 goals in the premiership though mackems.gif 11 goals in 32 PL games for Martins 6 goals in 15 PL games for Kluivert Do the calculation, since you like to work from statistics. Kluiverts all round game was better as well. Did i say something about Kluivert and Martins matter I only pointed how many goals Kluivert had. Genius... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Did Henry have the vision and awareness he has now when he first arrived from Juventus? Nope. How old was Henry when he came to Arsenal? 22 years old. Anelka was said to be better than Henry in their early 20's. Exactly ... No longer the case though is it. Henry has become infintely better due to Wengers tutoring. He was so unimpressive upfront Juventus actually played him on the left wing! Despite the fact Wenger was developing him as a striker at Monaco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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