Dyer

[johnnypd]

think dyer is better than milner but not exactly enamoured by either. milner in particular is the epitome of mid-table.

[Baggio]

Now that couldn't have anything to do with the fact Dyer has played a lot of those games up front though.

 

I think Milner is good enough at the moment, he will have to improve if we are going to start challenging the top 4 but he has already made vast improvements since he first signed for us and I see no reason why this wont continue.

 

Dyer is probably as good as he is ever going to get (well thats a lie, he has probably gone backwards a bit). He is injury prone and sooner or later thats going to take away his one real asset, pace. Would dread to think what Dyer would be like without his pace!

 

What about all Milners misplaced passes? Could this be the reason that we can't hold onto a lead when we've got players like him who can't retain possession?

 

Milner will never be good enough, I'd bet anyone now that he'll never get capped for England in a competitive match, the best thing we could do as a club would be to try and sell him to someone like West Ham and move for SWP, a far better player than Milner will ever be.

[Cajun]

Milner at Newcastle.

 

Averages:

 

48 crosses a season

2 goals a season

241 misplaced passes a season

3 assists a season

 

 

 

Look at his average for Newcastle and Vlla for the last 2 seasons.

 

Why look at milners over 2 seasons yet look at Dyer's over his whole career at Newcastle?

 

Because Milner only turned 21 this year, Dyer is 28 now. I think its fair to take into account the improvement Milner has made (ie his assists would have nearly trebled on average over the last 2 seasons).

 

Look how many passes he's given away in the past 2 years! 701 ffs! Compare that to Dyer's 104.

 

I'm not bigging Dyer up just pointing out that neither are good enough.

 

Speaking of misplaced paces I would have a look here:

 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/fo/profiles/3902.html

 

That Giggs is a shite player, well that or you could blame it on the lack of movement and poor quality players around him. Over 1,000 in 3 seasons!

[gazza ladra]

think dyer is better than milner but not exactly enamoured by either. milner in particular is the epitome of mid-table.

 

FFS

 

What are you doing? Channeling Souness now?

 

James Milner is 21 and he was the club's best player last season.  (We should be so lucky as to be midtable.)

[johnnypd]

think dyer is better than milner but not exactly enamoured by either. milner in particular is the epitome of mid-table.

 

FFS

 

What are you doing? Channeling Souness now?

 

James Milner is 21 and he was the club's best player last season.  (We should be so lucky as to be midtable.)

 

how am i "channeling souness" if i think neither are good enough? surely it is the people that think mid-table mediocre players like milner are good enough who are.

[Baggio]

Milner at Newcastle.

 

Averages:

 

48 crosses a season

2 goals a season

241 misplaced passes a season

3 assists a season

 

 

 

Look at his average for Newcastle and Vlla for the last 2 seasons.

 

Why look at milners over 2 seasons yet look at Dyer's over his whole career at Newcastle?

 

Because Milner only turned 21 this year, Dyer is 28 now. I think its fair to take into account the improvement Milner has made (ie his assists would have nearly trebled on average over the last 2 seasons).

 

Look how many passes he's given away in the past 2 years! 701 ffs! Compare that to Dyer's 104.

 

I'm not bigging Dyer up just pointing out that neither are good enough.

 

Speaking of misplaced paces I would have a look here:

 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/fo/profiles/3902.html

 

That Giggs is a s**** player, well that or you could blame it on the lack of movement and poor quality players around him. Over 1,000 in 3 seasons!

 

Giggs is quite clearly a far superior player to Milner though, his all round quality outweighs things like misplaced passes.

 

As Johnnypd said, Milner is the epitome of mid-table, he's an average, hard working player who's stood out in 2 shit teams when everyone else basically couldn't give a fuck.

 

[Cajun]

You were just claiming its a reason why we lost games but now I have proven Giggs is as bad* it doesn't count now.

 

*

 

Last 3 seasons:

 

                Games        Failed passes

Giggs           89                 1123

 

Milner           90                  926

 

So obviously Milner is the far superior player looking at that. 

[gazza ladra]

Don't buy into this notion that Milner isn't good enough or that he'd won't be good enough. Souness said something ridiculous about never winning anything with a team full of Milners. I don't trust his judgement, and inasmuch as you agree that Milner will not come to anything, can't agree with yours either.

 

He's 21 fucking years old and over the past two seasons he's been the best player for two clubs-- Aston Villa and Newcastle.

 

He's got more caps than anyone on the under-21s and will be eligible to play for them for some time still. It is a little early to say that he won't come to anything IMO.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

I think Milner will develop into a good quality Premiership player, not out of place in a top 7 team.

[Baggio]

You were just claiming its a reason why we lost games but now I have proven Giggs is as bad* it doesn't count now.

 

*

 

Last 3 seasons:

 

                Games        Failed passes

Giggs           89                 1123

 

Milner           90                  926

 

So obviously Milner is the far superior player looking at that. 

 

So are you saying Milner is better than Giggs?

 

Giggs gives the ball away alot but as a player his plus points far outweigh his bad one's, Milner doesn't offer anything that a club with ambition would look at, I'm not talking about stats on a website can prove either, I'm talking about things you can see by watching football, stats said Scott Parker was the 3rd best player in the Premiership back in December yet anyone could tell you he wasn't even our 3rd best player that month, stats prove very little.

 

Stats don't tell you how a player can change a game with his pace and movement, something Milner has zero of.

 

[Tsunami]

Dyer isn't a wide player, you can not compare them in that position. Dyer will never make a winger, Milner's biggest problem is a lack of pace. His crossing is ok; Nobby's is better.

[Guest Pie]

Dyer isn't a wide player, you can not compare them in that position. Dyer will never make a winger, Milner's biggest problem is a lack of pace. His crossing is ok; Nobby's is better.

Nobbys is very good as it happens. Milner and he cant be compared. Solano was a lot quicker than Milner when he arrived at SJP too. In terms of natural ability they are light years apart.

Johnny and Baggio is right though. I admire people for sticking up for Milner and I would be delighted if one day he woke up this summer and God had removed the lead from his legs. Dont think that will happen. Good on the kid for trying to improve and making progress.

However, my ambitions for Newcastle dont include the likes of him. Hopefully in a year or two he will be pissed off with being overlooked for better players and move on.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Nooby is the only player in our side who technically represents something like a footballer.

[Bad Mongo]

"Epitome of mid table", ffs. Liverpool went to the Champions League final with wingers like Pennant and Zenden. Pennant's crossing isn't any better than Milner's (64 successful vs 68), and I'd imagine finding Crouch with a cross is slightly easier than finding Martins.

[Cajun]

No I wasn't saying Milner was a better player than Giggs (well I was but with my tongue firmly in cheek), I was saying the thing you found so funny about him one of the best players in the league was even worse.

 

Milner for the majority of last season was our only real attacking outlet and he did a good job given he basically had fuck all to aim at most of the time. He was also a very good player for Villa. Its all well and good pointing to the fact that both teams didn't play very well but then I think its unfair to use that against the lad. How people expect him to do it all single handed is quite amusing really.

 

Give him a proper team to play with and see what he managed to do then. He is already doing a fairly good job in creating chances and I am sure its fairly obvious that will only improve with better players and better tactics.

[Guest steppa]

Talksh!t 1089/1053 AM are doing a Newcastle hour from nine. (Cundy and Marcotti)

 

NB Sorry for invading this thread as I can't start one.

Feel free to delete or whatever Mod people.

 

[Guest Pie]

No I wasn't saying Milner was a better player than Giggs (well I was but with my tongue firmly in cheek), I was saying the thing you found so funny about him one of the best players in the league was even worse.

 

Milner for the majority of last season was our only real attacking outlet and he did a good job given he basically had f*** all to aim at most of the time. He was also a very good player for Villa. Its all well and good pointing to the fact that both teams didn't play very well but then I think its unfair to use that against the lad. How people expect him to do it all single handed is quite amusing really.

 

Give him a proper team to play with and see what he managed to do then. He is already doing a fairly good job in creating chances and I am sure its fairly obvious that will only improve with better players and better tactics.

So would I but I'm not good enough either. The most obvious thing is his limited ability. Cant fault his effort.

[Cajun]

So would you what?

 

If you mean improve then Milner is already a fairly productive player in the premiership so any improvement and he is going to be a very good premiership player.

[Guest Pie]

So would you what?

 

If you mean improve then Milner is already a fairly productive player in the premiership so any improvement and he is going to be a very good premiership player.

I dont think he will ever be a player other teams covet. The lack of interest in him tells you all you need to know. If he does become a very good premiership player that the top teams are tripping over themselves to have then I will gladly let you take pictures of my arse in Fenwicks window.

[Cajun]

So would you what?

 

If you mean improve then Milner is already a fairly productive player in the premiership so any improvement and he is going to be a very good premiership player.

I dont think he will ever be a player other teams covet. The lack of interest in him tells you all you need to know. If he does become a very good premiership player that the top teams are tripping over themselves to have then I will gladly let you take pictures of my arse in Fenwicks window.

 

How many official bids have we had for Dyer?

[tmonkey]

Dyer isn't a wide player, you can not compare them in that position. Dyer will never make a winger, Milner's biggest problem is a lack of pace. His crossing is ok; Nobby's is better.

 

Fucking hell thats a good avatar.

[Cajun]

Dyer isn't a wide player, you can not compare them in that position. Dyer will never make a winger, Milner's biggest problem is a lack of pace. His crossing is ok; Nobby's is better.

 

Fucking hell thats a good avatar.

 

Will have to be something pretty special to beat that when I am voting in the forum awards

[TRon]

Dyer isn't a wide player because his crossing is not good enough, regardless of Milner's ability or otherwise. The reason so many top managers keep picking him for their sides is because he has speed, can run at players with the ball, and has an eye for the goal. If nothing else he will be a massive threat on the counter-attack. That makes him a useful squad player, problem is, he will have to accept that if he wants to play at the top level, otherwise consider signing for a less ambitious club who can guarantee him a role as a forward.

 

 

[midds]

Kieron Dyer:

 

ability to run quickly = 85%

ability to run for a long time = 75%

ability to pass a football = 15%

ability to tackle = 5%

ability to finish chances = 10%

ability to head a ball  = 2%

ability to deliver a key pass 10%

ability to cross a ball = 10%

ability to hold the ball up = 15%

ability to track his man back = 5%

 

 

Well worth his £80,000 a week...

[TRon]

I was talking about a manager's point of view. Ability to tackle 4%, head 10%, cross 12%, fart 15% means only so much unless you are looking for a one man team.