ohmelads Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Stop moaning?! That's rich coming from a Newcastle fan! If there was a trophy awarded for the most fickle fans in the Prem, you lot would win it every season, although i wouldn't put it past you to f**k that up as well and blame it on Freddy Shepherd! Define 'fickle fans'? You see, some people would say fans who don't always fill their stadium are fickle... Since the Premiership began we've finished 11th twice, 13th three times and just finished 14th, yet we have the second highest attendance figures since the Premiership began. Nothing fickle about that mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 The only good manager we've had was Bobby Robson Yes Kenny Dalglish was crap wasn't he? I mean he only managed to win the league with two different clubs! The fact is that you have had decent players, decent managers and a Chairman who has backed them with millions, the real reason that your club is a mess, is the fickle supporters who turn on the manager and the board the minute anything goes wrong. The Chairman then caves in and appoints yet another manager who then starts to dismantle everything that the previous manager did! The end result is continual failure. Big Sam has lost SIX consecutive games in two of the last three seasons. If that had happened at Newcastle, he would have been sacked and that lack of continuity is why you will continue to underachieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Define 'fickle fans'? You see, some people would say fans who don't always fill their stadium are fickle... See post above! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Can't remember too many fans calling for Dalglish's head. He'd just made some good summer buys (Solano & Hamann), had Dabizas & Speed from the end of the previous season, and we'd drawn our first two games before Shepherd sacked him. At the time, it was totally out of the blue. Similarly with Gullit, at the time, the fans were split about 50-50 between him and Shearer. I remember a game where Southampton pummelled us 4-2 not long before he was sacked, and the Newcastle fans were singing "Ruud Gullit's Black & White Army" non-stop for about 10 minutes. Souness & Roeder were rightly hounded out, they were genuinely sh*t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Yes Kenny Dalglish was crap wasn't he? I mean he only managed to win the league with two different clubs! The fact is that you have had decent players, decent managers and a Chairman who has backed them with millions, the real reason that your club is a mess, is the fickle supporters who turn on the manager and the board the minute anything goes wrong. The Chairman then caves in and appoints yet another manager who then starts to dismantle everything that the previous manager did! The end result is continual failure. Big Sam has lost SIX consecutive games in two of the last three seasons. If that had happened at Newcastle, he would have been sacked and that lack of continuity is why you will continue to underachieve. Embarrassing attempt to offend us to be honest, you really haven't been following Shepherd's reign at all. Freddy Shepherd is gone now, so we'll soon see who's right. The only reason you lot got Speed is because Shepherd sold him behind Bobby Robson's back, and neglected to even tell him! Roeder said he only had one full time scout at the club, and Souness said he had no knowledge of signings being made. Is it any coincidence all these managers come out afterwards and say the job was so difficult because of the chairman? The fact you can't even see that makes this debate pretty pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 And read the comments at the bottom of the page, stop moaning and be grateful to sam for getting Bolton into the prem. Stop moaning?! That's rich coming from a Newcastle fan! If there was a trophy awarded for the most fickle fans in the Prem, you lot would win it every season, although i wouldn't put it past you to f**k that up as well and blame it on Freddy Shepherd! you win, now fuck off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Embarrassing attempt to offend us to be honest, you really haven't been following Shepherd's reign at all. Freddy Shepherd is gone now, so we'll soon see who's right. The only reason you lot got Speed is because Shepherd sold him behind Bobby Robson's back, and neglected to even tell him! The fact you can't even see that makes this debate pretty pointless. I wondered how long it would take you to blame it all on Freddy Shepherd! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I wondered how long it would take you to blame it all on Freddy Shepherd! We'll see won't we. Let's see which fans fill their stadium every home match of the season, regardless of results. I can tell you now who the fickle fans will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you win, now f*** off Something i'm looking forward to hearing after the first game of the season! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezeri Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Given/Harper Geremi/ Taylor/ Rozehnal/ Baines(new LB)/ Solano Hunty Edmilson Babayaro Barton/ Emre/ Butt Edmilson(new DM) Milner/ Viduka/ Duff/ Solano/Dyer Dyer/Oba N'Zogbia/Oba Owen/ Oba/Viduka Actually I think we should play 4-3-3 when attacking which changes to 4-5-1 when defending as the wingers drop deep. One role which we're badly missing is a decent attacking midfield playmaker. Maybe Emre or Zog could be tried at that position but neither have impressed. Riquelme might be worth of a try but I have some doubts about his physical ability to manage in the Premier League. One thing I'm glad about(in case we'll be getting a good new LB) is that we seem to have no position where we might look a bit weak like the whole defence did last season. There seems to be good competition for every single position which can be only a good thing... Only 4 players have arrived so far but the things overall looks so much better. With Ashley's money...I guess we'll be making one more world class signing before the start of the campaign and I really think it should be a playmaker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 The only good manager we've had was Bobby Robson Yes Kenny Dalglish was crap wasn't he? I mean he only managed to win the league with two different clubs! The fact is that you have had decent players, decent managers and a Chairman who has backed them with millions, the real reason that your club is a mess, is the fickle supporters who turn on the manager and the board the minute anything goes wrong. The Chairman then caves in and appoints yet another manager who then starts to dismantle everything that the previous manager did! The end result is continual failure. We have had decent players yes, but the appointment of managers has been a joke since Robson left, further compounded by backing these plebs blindly with the club's money. You'll find out just what a difference picking the right manager makes when Sammy Lee makes a pig's ear of the manager's job at Bolton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jamesmartinsmith Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Define 'fickle fans'? You see, some people would say fans who don't always fill their stadium are fickle... See post above! Why the fuck are you here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you've had a good manager over the past few seasons, getting results with an average squad of journeymen. Yes 'average journeymen' like Jay Jay Ockocha, Youri Djorkaeff, Fernando Hierro, Nicolas Anelka, etc, etc. I thought that Geordies were supposed to know something about football, or are you just the exception? leave out the personal abuse mate. and yes, those are journeymen footballers at the time they played for you, like many others at Bolton. it is also worth pointing out that those are basically the "biggest" names you can mention for bolton over the past few years and they still fit the general pattern. That Sam has done so well getting the best out of loans, free transfers, players no one would touch and those aged 30 or over is testament to his ability. Anelka is the exception and Sam's only big money transfer iirc, even though he's rarely stayed at one club for any extended period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Yes Kenny Dalglish was crap wasn't he? I mean he only managed to win the league with two different clubs! The fact is that you have had decent players, decent managers and a Chairman who has backed them with millions, the real reason that your club is a mess, is the fickle supporters who turn on the manager and the board the minute anything goes wrong. The Chairman then caves in and appoints yet another manager who then starts to dismantle everything that the previous manager did! The end result is continual failure. Big Sam has lost SIX consecutive games in two of the last three seasons. If that had happened at Newcastle, he would have been sacked and that lack of continuity is why you will continue to underachieve. Embarrassing attempt to offend us to be honest, you really haven't been following Shepherd's reign at all. Freddy Shepherd is gone now, so we'll soon see who's right. The only reason you lot got Speed is because Shepherd sold him behind Bobby Robson's back, and neglected to even tell him! Roeder said he only had one full time scout at the club, and Souness said he had no knowledge of signings being made. Is it any coincidence all these managers come out afterwards and say the job was so difficult because of the chairman? The fact you can't even see that makes this debate pretty pointless. Isn't it the managers job to sort out scouts? Also the way I read it Souness said he didn't complete the signings that come here, he didn't say Shepherd picked which players he wanted and which one's he didn't. Trotter is right to a certain extent, we are a fickle bunch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 you win, now f*** off Something i'm looking forward to hearing after the first game of the season! Nobody minds informed, critical appraisals of situations they have seen at close hand. It's the muttonheeds who pretend they know what they are on about that get on my tits. There are enough of them here without you joining in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Yes Kenny Dalglish was crap wasn't he? I mean he only managed to win the league with two different clubs! The fact is that you have had decent players, decent managers and a Chairman who has backed them with millions, the real reason that your club is a mess, is the fickle supporters who turn on the manager and the board the minute anything goes wrong. The Chairman then caves in and appoints yet another manager who then starts to dismantle everything that the previous manager did! The end result is continual failure. Big Sam has lost SIX consecutive games in two of the last three seasons. If that had happened at Newcastle, he would have been sacked and that lack of continuity is why you will continue to underachieve. Embarrassing attempt to offend us to be honest, you really haven't been following Shepherd's reign at all. Freddy Shepherd is gone now, so we'll soon see who's right. The only reason you lot got Speed is because Shepherd sold him behind Bobby Robson's back, and neglected to even tell him! Roeder said he only had one full time scout at the club, and Souness said he had no knowledge of signings being made. Is it any coincidence all these managers come out afterwards and say the job was so difficult because of the chairman? The fact you can't even see that makes this debate pretty pointless. Isn't it the managers job to sort out scouts? Also the way I read it Souness said he didn't complete the signings that come here, he didn't say Shepherd picked which players he wanted and which one's he didn't. Trotter is right to a certain extent, we are a fickle bunch. all football fans are fickle, its becomes a problem when chairmen are just as fickle. at least football fans are just spouting off, most of them understand that actions carry consequences and would be much more measured if in a position of power. regarding trotters theory, it doesn't really make sense as the fans didn't demand that Keegan (who left of his own free will), Dalglish or Robson be sacked. The only two managers the fans rose up against were Roeder and Souness, and the fans were actually far too lenient with them imo. Gullit resigned. it's simply a cute stereotype ignorant fans of other clubs have garnered from the red-tops. next he'll say nufc fans would rather win the FA cup than the league, or would prefer to lose 4-3 than win 1-0. the opposition fans who generally stick around on this forum and who are appreciated are the likes of brummie, speccy, 1878 and so on, who can see beyond cheap stereotypes. i don't predict trotter will be here too long if he keeps up with such a poor level of posting. as for sorting out scouts, it seems obvious to me that roeder didn't hold enough sway over shephed to sanction that sort of investment. shepherd was still trying out his "galacticos on a budget" routine of spending big on stars by scrounging at every other possible opportunity, even when it comes to investing in a good manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Yes Kenny Dalglish was crap wasn't he? I mean he only managed to win the league with two different clubs! The fact is that you have had decent players, decent managers and a Chairman who has backed them with millions, the real reason that your club is a mess, is the fickle supporters who turn on the manager and the board the minute anything goes wrong. The Chairman then caves in and appoints yet another manager who then starts to dismantle everything that the previous manager did! The end result is continual failure. Big Sam has lost SIX consecutive games in two of the last three seasons. If that had happened at Newcastle, he would have been sacked and that lack of continuity is why you will continue to underachieve. Embarrassing attempt to offend us to be honest, you really haven't been following Shepherd's reign at all. Freddy Shepherd is gone now, so we'll soon see who's right. The only reason you lot got Speed is because Shepherd sold him behind Bobby Robson's back, and neglected to even tell him! Roeder said he only had one full time scout at the club, and Souness said he had no knowledge of signings being made. Is it any coincidence all these managers come out afterwards and say the job was so difficult because of the chairman? The fact you can't even see that makes this debate pretty pointless. Isn't it the managers job to sort out scouts? Also the way I read it Souness said he didn't complete the signings that come here, he didn't say Shepherd picked which players he wanted and which one's he didn't. Trotter is right to a certain extent, we are a fickle bunch. all football fans are fickle, its becomes a problem when chairmen are just as fickle. at least football fans are just spouting off, most of them understand that actions carry consequences and would be much more measured if in a position of power. regarding trotters theory, it doesn't really make sense as the fans didn't demand that Keegan (who left of his own free will), Dalglish or Robson be sacked. The only two managers the fans rose up against were Roeder and Souness, and the fans were actually far too lenient with them imo. Gullit resigned. as for sorting out scouts, it seems obvious to me that roeder didn't hold enough sway over shephed to sanction that sort of investment. shepherd was still trying out his "galacticos on a budget" routine of spending big on stars by scrounging at every other possible opportunity, even when it comes to investing in a good manager. Tbh mate I've only jumped on the end of this thread and haven't been following it as far back as trotter going off on one, my fickle fans comment was about the unrealistic expectations some fans have, especially in the transfer market where most were demanding £15 million every summer even though the club was running at a loss. As for Roeder and Shepherd, you're probably right that he didn't have enough sway as far as getting things done were concerned, how much of that was down to Shepherd I'm not sure as Roader seemed spineless at everything from transfers to team selections, I don't think you should expect Shepherd to pester him to sort things like scouts etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 all football fans are fickle, its becomes a problem when chairmen are just as fickle. it doesn't help when they are as thick as pig $hit as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Define 'fickle fans'? You see, some people would say fans who don't always fill their stadium are fickle... See post above! Why the fuck are you here? Perhaps he's here to share his opinions on football in general? To be perfectly honest, he seems like he's got his head screwed on and quite sensible. He's talked an awful lot of sense and he certainly doesn't deserve some of the shit that's been slung in his direction. His opinion is just as valid as anyone else's on here. Give the bloke a break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Define 'fickle fans'? You see, some people would say fans who don't always fill their stadium are fickle... See post above! Why the f*** are you here? Perhaps he's here to share his opinions on football in general? To be perfectly honest, he seems like he's got his head screwed on and quite sensible. He's talked an awful lot of sense and he certainly doesn't deserve some of the s*** that's been slung in his direction. His opinion is just as valid as anyone else's on here. Give the bloke a break. he's also shown a lot of bitterness, 'planet newcastle, fifth highest tally' etc rival fans sharing opinions on football in general is fine and I enjoy reading by posts from such members, but an awful lot use this site as a depository for envy and resentment and I've detected a hint of that in this thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trotter58 Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 he's also shown a lot of bitterness, 'planet newcastle, fifth highest tally' etc rival fans sharing opinions on football in general is fine and I enjoy reading by posts from such members, but an awful lot use this site as a depository for envy and resentment and I've detected a hint of that in this thread If anyone should be envious and resentful it's you lot! The stats were posted in response to your assertion that our players were 'not a patch on yours'. You've yet to produce any evidence whatsoever to back up your point of view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exilim Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 And read the comments at the bottom of the page, stop moaning and be grateful to sam for getting Bolton into the prem. Stop moaning?! That's rich coming from a Newcastle fan! If there was a trophy awarded for the most fickle fans in the Prem, you lot would win it every season, although i wouldn't put it past you to f**k that up as well and blame it on Freddy Shepherd! So what's the point coming to a newcastle board telling newcastle fans that they are fickle? I believe the same theory applies for Bolton fans as well, are you telling me that Bolton fans are fickle because of that minority? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I didnt say managers = trophies you will have to continue your argument with the poster before. (and I would appreciate a response to all my post and not just an element you may wish to pick on) Bolton have as I've said done massively well but has done so thanks to the system and ways of working brought in by the manager in conjunction with a very supportive chairman. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the central point of your argument is that it takes a decent manager to get the best out of players. In addition, our players are 'not a patch' on yours, according to one clown. So in other words, you've had great managers and great players but still achieved nothing! The reality is that the whole system needs to work from top to bottom to get the best results but to imply that we have only achieved success because of Big Sam would be wrong. There are plenty of people behind the scenes, including Sammy Lee and all of the current coaching staff, who have played their part. Ok I will correct you that you are wrong. I was agreeing with massive elements of your posts and I and many others are first to admit spending big, having a massive fan base, having good "on paper" managers dont deem success. But as usual you only pick out a small element of what is being posted is that cause you stop to reply on only part of a reply done to you?? As your not a fan of the club I guess you dont know about the ins and outs although alot of our shit is made public gaping problems about who has had control on signings where to spend on the squad and structure have been out of managers hands, an again as I have said before with an impatient fan base and a trigger happy chairman it usually means we go through managers like the rest of us do socks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 So yesterday we played a bit of 4-3-3 with Martins, Carroll and Dyer up top. Anyone who went to the game want to give us an account of how Martins did on the left hand side of the 4-3-3. Sounded like he had a good game and was a threat can anyone confirm this at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hristo Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Emre - Barton - Dyer Duff Martins Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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