Mowen Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/6919965.stm - Eduardo gets his http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/6274174.stm - and Alex his. Now I'm not saying that these two players shouldn't have their permits, but do players ever get turned down for them? Are there any instances of it happening? Given that I haven't really heard of any of Citeh's new signings this summer is there a chance any of them won't be granted one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Gonzalaz was refused one at Liverpool iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Click to have a look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Oh yeah, I read about that. Does signing someone and then loaning them out not make a mockery of the system? (not sure if that was the case with Gonzalez, but I'm sure it's been done) They were right not to give Gonzalez one. He's wank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 on FM I've had it turned down upon appeal for some Mexican called Ever Guzman that I scouted haha. Seriously though, never heard of it being rejected upon appeal in real life, but Man Utd did send that Dong Fangzhuo to Belgium for 2/3 years to increase his chances of getting one or something. EDIT: interesting to see Benni McCarthy was refused one when trying to join the smogs in 2001. Never knew that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 http://liverpool.livefootball.co.uk/newsarticle.asp?article=775 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We got turned down one for Anderson Da Silva and he had to go on loan to Malaga for 18 months Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We couldn't sign the yank keeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We couldn't sign the yank keeper. Just about to say that, Keegan couldn't sign Brad Friedel. He tried with a few different clubs over the years and couldn't got one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I rememeber Spurs got turned down on one for Bobby Convey, the American lad now at Reading Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Oh yeah, I read about that. Does signing someone and then loaning them out not make a mockery of the system? (not sure if that was the case with Gonzalez, but I'm sure it's been done) They were right not to give Gonzalez one. He's w***. Gonzalez was loaned out to Real Sociedad. Arsenal bought Carlos Vela and loaned him straight out to Salamanca. Chelsea have done the same with Alex. I guess if other clubs are doing it, we could get in on the act ourselves. Have Newcastle ever done a deal like this? The bargains to be found in South America (and to a lesser extent Africa) make it very worthwhile, clubs like Sevilla have made great strides by findings like Dani Alves and Baptista for pittance, while PSV have been doing it for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Just about to say that, Keegan couldn't sign Brad Friedel. He tried with a few different clubs over the years and couldn't got one. The mackems tried to sign him a while after us and they were knocked back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Gonzalez was loaned out to Real Sociedad. Arsenal bought Carlos Vela and loaned him straight out to Salamanca. Chelsea have done the same with Alex. I guess if other clubs are doing it, we could get in on the act ourselves. Have Newcastle ever done a deal like this? The bargains to be found in South America (and to a lesser extent Africa) make it very worthwhile, clubs like Sevilla have made great strides by findings like Dani Alves and Baptista for pittance, while PSV have been doing it for years. We've never done it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/1538533.stm Unlucky! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/1538533.stm Unlucky! Aye I just noticed that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 The whole thing is a joke - look at the circumstances of, say, Dede, who might have a problem if we signed him ; look at how Ronaldo got to play in Holland long before he had 20 caps for Brazil, and how Dutch , German & French clubs get hold of players from outside the EU LONG before they would be allowed in the UK. This is all because the British Govt stick to stupid EU legislation when the others ignore it... WHY ? Because the politicians all wnat to get on the EU Gravy Train and don't want to upset people like the French who run it.... All this applies far more to stuff outside Football, but the problems with Work Permits are all part of the syndrome. The Pollies pretend its to safeguard jobs in Football, but they don't bother about 'safeguarding jobs' when they allow millions of unskilled workers in from EU countries - but then , they are being 'Good Europeans' aren't they...!!?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 and teh Players Asoc doesn't liek foreigners coming in you can't complain about no home bred talent if you allow everyone in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Oh yeah, I read about that. Does signing someone and then loaning them out not make a mockery of the system? (not sure if that was the case with Gonzalez, but I'm sure it's been done) They were right not to give Gonzalez one. He's w***. Gonzalez was loaned out to Real Sociedad. Arsenal bought Carlos Vela and loaned him straight out to Salamanca. Chelsea have done the same with Alex. I guess if other clubs are doing it, we could get in on the act ourselves. Have Newcastle ever done a deal like this? The bargains to be found in South America (and to a lesser extent Africa) make it very worthwhile, clubs like Sevilla have made great strides by findings like Dani Alves and Baptista for pittance, while PSV have been doing it for years. Like I said, makes a mockery of the system in place. Maybe it needs reviewing though, if other countries aren't so strict. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 The whole thing is a joke - look at the circumstances of, say, Dede, who might have a problem if we signed him ; look at how Ronaldo got to play in Holland long before he had 20 caps for Brazil, and how Dutch , German & French clubs get hold of players from outside the EU LONG before they would be allowed in the UK. This is all because the British Govt stick to stupid EU legislation when the others ignore it... WHY ? Because the politicians all wnat to get on the EU Gravy Train and don't want to upset people like the French who run it.... All this applies far more to stuff outside Football, but the problems with Work Permits are all part of the syndrome. The Pollies pretend its to safeguard jobs in Football, but they don't bother about 'safeguarding jobs' when they allow millions of unskilled workers in from EU countries - but then , they are being 'Good Europeans' aren't they...!!?? It has absolutely nothing to do with "stupid EU legislation" that gets ignored by others. EU legislation doesn't affect non-EU nationals and is simply down to the national states. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 One things for sure, we should definitely be more lenient on allowing prodigously talented left sided midfielders into the country at a young age..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 I can tell you that 10 years ago, I did a project for the club to open an Academy in Australia. There would have been many benefits(we would probably had players like Cahill for nothing),but the first thing Sir John was worried about was the Work Permit thing. I had to explain to him that we could get round it by selecting kids who either had British relatives or had been born in the UK, and so could get dual-nationality(this would also have applied to any kids who had parents from EU countries too). Sir John had to step down before we could take this ahead, and Fletcher etc put the project on the back-burner. A journalist told Fergie about the plan, and, had Sky been successful in taking over Manure in 98, they would have done it themselves...... As it happens, Manure have just invited a young kid from Oz(he's 9) to attend their UK Academy in due course.I've seen film of this kid, and he's brilliant - really skilful. I know these kids can drop off, but if he makes it, watch out for Manure setting up their own Academy in Australia...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 The whole thing is a joke - look at the circumstances of, say, Dede, who might have a problem if we signed him ; look at how Ronaldo got to play in Holland long before he had 20 caps for Brazil, and how Dutch , German & French clubs get hold of players from outside the EU LONG before they would be allowed in the UK. This is all because the British Govt stick to stupid EU legislation when the others ignore it... WHY ? Because the politicians all wnat to get on the EU Gravy Train and don't want to upset people like the French who run it.... All this applies far more to stuff outside Football, but the problems with Work Permits are all part of the syndrome. The Pollies pretend its to safeguard jobs in Football, but they don't bother about 'safeguarding jobs' when they allow millions of unskilled workers in from EU countries - but then , they are being 'Good Europeans' aren't they...!!?? It has absolutely nothing to do with "stupid EU legislation" that gets ignored by others. EU legislation doesn't affect non-EU nationals and is simply down to the national states. I've got news for you - EU Legislation DOES affect other nationalities - why do you think people from Eastern Europe can work in the UK AND get benefits there, when people whose relatives actually came from the place and are treated as Aliens at UK Airports ! You are right about ONE thing and I made that point in my first post - its down to INTERPRETATION by National states - and that is dictated by politicians... I don't know whether you are British or not, but if so, you are about to lose many of the qualities of being a nation due to the new EU Constitution - nothing like being ruled by Foreign, unaccountable bureaucrats, is there...!!?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danswan Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Having the legal right to work in the country your employment exists is important to any modern day professional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 The whole thing is a joke - look at the circumstances of, say, Dede, who might have a problem if we signed him ; look at how Ronaldo got to play in Holland long before he had 20 caps for Brazil, and how Dutch , German & French clubs get hold of players from outside the EU LONG before they would be allowed in the UK. This is all because the British Govt stick to stupid EU legislation when the others ignore it... WHY ? Because the politicians all wnat to get on the EU Gravy Train and don't want to upset people like the French who run it.... All this applies far more to stuff outside Football, but the problems with Work Permits are all part of the syndrome. The Pollies pretend its to safeguard jobs in Football, but they don't bother about 'safeguarding jobs' when they allow millions of unskilled workers in from EU countries - but then , they are being 'Good Europeans' aren't they...!!?? It has absolutely nothing to do with "stupid EU legislation" that gets ignored by others. EU legislation doesn't affect non-EU nationals and is simply down to the national states. I've got news for you - EU Legislation DOES affect other nationalities - why do you think people from Eastern Europe can work in the UK AND get benefits there, when people whose relatives actually came from the place and are treated as Aliens at UK Airports ! You are right about ONE thing and I made that point in my first post - its down to INTERPRETATION by National states - and that is dictated by politicians... I don't know whether you are British or not, but if so, you are about to lose many of the qualities of being a nation due to the new EU Constitution - nothing like being ruled by Foreign, unaccountable bureaucrats, is there...!!?? Well, I am German and work/teach in law, so I pretty much think that I know what I am talking about. The thing about the people from Eastern European countries is down to most of them actually being members of the EU now. Therefore the EU employment market is open to them. It's just that certain countries (as Germany) did protect certain areas their employment market against the proposed influx from workers from Poland and other new members, others as the UK did less against it. This was all handled in the treaties with the new members when they entered. But as I said, that is totally different issue to people from outside of the EU (Brazilian, Croatians etc.) coming to work in an EU member state. Those regulations are simply down to the countries themselves. The UK does have strict regulations while other have more lenient regulations that especially benefit the clubs to sign players from non-EU nations. As I said this has absolutely nothing to do with EU legislation and its interpretation. The UK would be totally free to change their work permit regulations regarding non-EU nationals as they like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 The whole thing is a joke - look at the circumstances of, say, Dede, who might have a problem if we signed him ; look at how Ronaldo got to play in Holland long before he had 20 caps for Brazil, and how Dutch , German & French clubs get hold of players from outside the EU LONG before they would be allowed in the UK. This is all because the British Govt stick to stupid EU legislation when the others ignore it... WHY ? Because the politicians all wnat to get on the EU Gravy Train and don't want to upset people like the French who run it.... All this applies far more to stuff outside Football, but the problems with Work Permits are all part of the syndrome. The Pollies pretend its to safeguard jobs in Football, but they don't bother about 'safeguarding jobs' when they allow millions of unskilled workers in from EU countries - but then , they are being 'Good Europeans' aren't they...!!?? It has absolutely nothing to do with "stupid EU legislation" that gets ignored by others. EU legislation doesn't affect non-EU nationals and is simply down to the national states. I've got news for you - EU Legislation DOES affect other nationalities - why do you think people from Eastern Europe can work in the UK AND get benefits there, when people whose relatives actually came from the place and are treated as Aliens at UK Airports ! You are right about ONE thing and I made that point in my first post - its down to INTERPRETATION by National states - and that is dictated by politicians... I don't know whether you are British or not, but if so, you are about to lose many of the qualities of being a nation due to the new EU Constitution - nothing like being ruled by Foreign, unaccountable bureaucrats, is there...!!?? Well, I am German and work/teach in law, so I pretty much think that I know what I am talking about. The thing about the people from Eastern European countries is down to most of them actually being members of the EU now. Therefore the EU employment market is open to them. It's just that certain countries (as Germany) did protect certain areas their employment market against the proposed influx from workers from Poland and other new members, others as the UK did less against it. This was all handled in the treaties with the new members when they entered. But as I said, that is totally different issue to people from outside of the EU (Brazilian, Croatians etc.) coming to work in an EU member state. Those regulations are simply down to the countries themselves. The UK does have strict regulations while other have more lenient regulations that especially benefit the clubs to sign players from non-EU nations. As I said this has absolutely nothing to do with EU legislation and its interpretation. The UK would be totally free to change their work permit regulations regarding non-EU nationals as they like it. I am not going to debate this issue on this site as it is a football site and others will get fed up with it. However, your being involved with the Legal profession does not mean you are automatically correct - the trouble with Lawyers is that they are more interested in the LETTER of the Law than the SPIRIT of it.. I am fully aware of the UK's interpretation of these rules - the question you haven't addressed is WHY the UK's politicians interpret them that way - and apart from Brazilians etc, these rules apply to COMMONWEALTH Citizens, many of whom are related to British people.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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