Jol on the brink? Breaking news:Ramos snubs huge Spurs offer.

[danswan]

The system will work fine and only really breaks down when one (Jol) wants to take some of the job delegated to his immediate boss (Comolli).  From what I understand on the continent, some DoF's don't even discuss the players with the coach, just sign them and say 'here's another one for the squad for you to work with'.  At Spurs Jol says what position he would like filled  and what level (starter, squad, one for the future), Comolli comes up with a list of names and the order of preference is decided between the pair of them.  Comolli then starts to work down the list.

 

The problems arise when Jol thinks a player should be bought at the price quoted by the selling club and Comolli refuses to recommend the bid to Levy at that price, SWP at £17m, Downing at £14m and Kuyt at £18m are just 3 I know of, I'm sure there are others.  The problem with the left side is complex, Jol has said before he wants a LW and we've tried at various times for Downing, MGP, Robben, Nani, Petrov etc, even though Jol says he probably wouldn't use the LW in tandem with Lennon.  So they've asked about LM's instead, Barry, Taylor, Drenthe etc but Jol comes back saying he'd prefer Robben or SWP............. and so it goes around.  My personal view is that Jol knows there is a shortcoming on that side but doesn't know the best way of dealing with it with retaining some stability to the balance.  It isn't helped by Jol having Keane having one of his untouchables who can't be dropped, hence Keane playing in MF against Everton with Bent and Berbatov up front.

 

Who gets the credit for 5th place?  Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.  So, on that basis, I would put the bulk with Comolli, some to Jol.  Incidentally, one credible ITK is saying Jol could be gone today.  Not surprising, I am getting nothing from my sister-in-law so I'm as much in the dark as the next man.

 

It's change for the sake of change. Nothing else. If Jol was really that much of a liability he should have been sacked immediately following the last game of last season (something Newcastle have often got wrong until Roeder's departure). As it is he's been allowed to shape pre-season and had input into what players could/should be bought. You may as well give the job to Commoli.

 

It's a recipe for disaster when the DoF and Coach have clearly divergent views on players. Are you seriously saying Berbatov or Chimbonda would have joined other clubs if a DoF with Comolli's power didn't exist? It hardly took much scouting to find those and any competent chief-exec could have negotiated the deals.

 

Part of the problem with the way Spurs are running this system, is it's being run in an alien environment where the media and fans where the blame for any perceived failure is heaped 100% on the manager. Jol is taking flak for Commoli's failings.

 

btw Kuyt for 18m? Where did that come from? Never saw that figure quoted once in any story when LFC were trying to buy him and he eventually joined for just over 9m.

 

Berbatov was Comolli's #1 pick for a tall striker to complement Keane/Defoe.  Kuyt was Jol's #1 pick for that position.   The first prices Spurs were given were £10.9m for Berbatov, £18m for Kuyt.  Leverkusen never budged from their quoted figure, Feyenoord eventually dropped their figure to £13.3m.  Comolli (against Jol's wishes) opted to sign Berbatov, Jol was happy to pay £18m for Kuyt and remained Kuyt remained Jol's preferred choice right to the end.

 

The DoF and the Head Coach should obviously try to work harmoniously but it's inevitable there will be differences.  The DoF will obviously back his own judgement.  My concern would be if Comolli got more wrong than right and imho that isn't a matter for debate.

 

OK

 

So who's name are you going to adopt then?

[Mowen]

<snip>

 

JJ wasn't a Comolli signing, he was inbetween DoFs and arrived on the recommendation of SBR who was advising Levy at the time.  To Comolli's hits I would add Malbranque, Taarabt, Boateng (from the one match I've seen him in) and Kaboul, plus I do believe Bale will turn out to be one of his best signings.

 

The wage structure is a funny one.  On the face of it, it holds Spurs back but we do still sign good players, Bent, Berbatov and Zokora all turning down more money from West Ham, Man Utd and Arsenal respectively.  It does show that those players aren't just turning up for the money.

 

So the squad that finished 5th the first time around (and did significantly better than the following year) had nothing to do with Comolli, and yet you side with Comolli as it was the squad Comolli assembled that any manager should take to Europe?

[Mowen]

Didn't Arnesen put together the bulk of the squad though? I was under the impression he left the same summer as Carrick...

 

Just about all signed by Arnesen have now gone.

 

Robinson? Dawson? Lennon? Keane? Defoe? Lee?

EDIT: Was Carrick not also Arnesen? It's indisputible that he was key to the first 5th place, and he then went on to make you a huge amount of money allowing you to buy Berb with some to spare.

 

Were they not of his era?

 

As far as I can tell, those signed by Comolli who played regularly last season are Jenas, Berb, Chimbonda, Zokora and Malbranque although less frequently. I would have said Arnesen had just as much of an impact, he propelled you there, or so it seemed to an outsider.

 

Feel free to correct on any of the signings though, it's almost impossible I've got the timings of them all correct in my head.

 

Is much of this wrong? As far as I can tell you've got worse since Comolli started affecting the squad more and more....

 

When did he become responsible for signing players? Was Berb his first capture?

[Dave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6954968.stm

 

Tottenham striker Dimitar Berbatov has not fallen out with boss Martin Jol, according to the player's agent.

 

Reports on Tuesday suggested Jol wanted to sell Berbatov, who had reacted angrily after being substituted during Spurs' 1-0 defeat at Sunderland.

 

"One thing I can tell you for sure is that there is not a problem between Martin Jol and Dimitar," Emil Dantchev told BBC Sport.

 

"They have discussed the football situation but that is normal."

[Parky]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6954968.stm

 

Tottenham striker Dimitar Berbatov has not fallen out with boss Martin Jol, according to the player's agent.

 

Reports on Tuesday suggested Jol wanted to sell Berbatov, who had reacted angrily after being substituted during Spurs' 1-0 defeat at Sunderland.

 

"One thing I can tell you for sure is that there is not a problem between Martin Jol and Dimitar," Emil Dantchev told BBC Sport.

 

"They have discussed the football situation but that is normal."

 

 

Damage control? 

[Martin Lol]

Didn't Arnesen put together the bulk of the squad though? I was under the impression he left the same summer as Carrick...

 

Just about all signed by Arnesen have now gone.

 

Robinson? Dawson? Lennon? Keane? Defoe? Lee?

EDIT: Was Carrick not also Arnesen? It's indisputible that he was key to the first 5th place, and he then went on to make you a huge amount of money allowing you to buy Berb with some to spare.

 

Were they not of his era?

 

As far as I can tell, those signed by Comolli who played regularly last season are Jenas, Berb, Chimbonda, Zokora and Malbranque although less frequently. I would have said Arnesen had just as much of an impact, he propelled you there, or so it seemed to an outsider.

 

Feel free to correct on any of the signings though, it's almost impossible I've got the timings of them all correct in my head.

 

Is much of this wrong? As far as I can tell you've got worse since Comolli started affecting the squad more and more....

 

When did he become responsible for signing players? Was Berb his first capture?

 

  Carrick was an Arnesen signing.  Carrick went and Lee, Tainio and Hudd are all that remains of actual Arnesen introductions.  Robinson, Dawson, Lennon, Keane and Defoe were all set up or signed by Pleat.  There is till far more of a Pleat influence on the squad than Arnesen.  Arnesen influenced greatly the behind the scenes, particularly the medical side and skills coaching.  Comolli has been the driving force for the new Academy and training facilities which is up for planning approval and due to cost £33m.

 

http://tottenhamhotspur.com/news/view_archived_article.html?art_id=5577

[Martin Lol]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6954968.stm

 

Tottenham striker Dimitar Berbatov has not fallen out with boss Martin Jol, according to the player's agent.

 

Reports on Tuesday suggested Jol wanted to sell Berbatov, who had reacted angrily after being substituted during Spurs' 1-0 defeat at Sunderland.

 

"One thing I can tell you for sure is that there is not a problem between Martin Jol and Dimitar," Emil Dantchev told BBC Sport.

 

"They have discussed the football situation but that is normal."

 

 

Damage control? 

 

More like a dirty tricks campaign to justify getting shot of Jol imo.  Berbatov's agent trying to ensure his player doesn't get sucked in to the mess.

[Mowen]

<snip>

  Carrick was an Arnesen signing.  Carrick went and Lee, Tainio and Hudd are all that remains of actual Arnesen introductions.  Robinson, Dawson, Lennon, Keane and Defoe were all set up or signed by Pleat.   There is till far more of a Pleat influence on the squad than Arnesen.  Arnesen influenced greatly the behind the scenes, particularly the medical side and skills coaching.  Comolli has been the driving force for the new Academy and training facilities which is up for planning approval and due to cost £33m.

 

http://tottenhamhotspur.com/news/view_archived_article.html?art_id=5577

 

So what has Comolli actually done to justify this sort of backing: Who gets the credit for 5th place? 

Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.

 

i.e. how many Comolli players were an integral part of making Spurs a European team? It still seems to me that Spurs have got worse since he started signing the players.

[Parky]

<snip>

  Carrick was an Arnesen signing.  Carrick went and Lee, Tainio and Hudd are all that remains of actual Arnesen introductions.  Robinson, Dawson, Lennon, Keane and Defoe were all set up or signed by Pleat.   There is till far more of a Pleat influence on the squad than Arnesen.  Arnesen influenced greatly the behind the scenes, particularly the medical side and skills coaching.  Comolli has been the driving force for the new Academy and training facilities which is up for planning approval and due to cost £33m.

 

http://tottenhamhotspur.com/news/view_archived_article.html?art_id=5577

 

So what has Comolli actually done to justify this sort of backing: Who gets the credit for 5th place? 

Well, Jol obviously gets some, but there is the belief (and I share it) that with the squad that Comolli put together, any reasonable manager should have been capable of getting a European place.

 

i.e. how many Comolli players were an integral part of making Spurs a European team? It still seems to me that Spurs have got worse since he started signing the players.

 

 

It seems even under the most cursory scrutiny the DOF lark seems to fall apart. 

[SUPERTOON]

They wont get Ramos according to Guillem Balligaue on SSN

 

He also said Spurs are not the only english club in for Riquelme

 

please be us

[Mowen]

I dunno about that, Spurs have got better since they got one. I'm just question whether Comolli is all MJ cracks him up to be. He used to bum Arnesen all over the shop when they had him, but now he seems to look down his nose at him.

 

edit: for P-man, obv.

[Guest Sniffer]

Too many chiefs and not enough indians these days at football clubs. I can imagine what Cloughie or Shankly would have said to some suit telling them what to do.

[Parky]

Too many chiefs and not enough indians these days at football clubs. I can imagine what Cloughie or Shankly would have said to some suit telling them what to do.

 

Comolli's background doesn't seem so impressive imo. Running youth set ups to telling managers what to do.....Ridiculous.

[Guest Sniffer]

And yet Jol carries the can even though he's told what to do, as you say. Ant spurs continue to win nowt.

[Rich]

Man Utd away this weekend, an' all. Lovely.

[Parky]

Man Utd away this weekend, an' all. Lovely.

 

 

...and ManU seething from recent injustices are going to be drinking blood before the game.

[Rich]

Then Fulham away, where they don't usually fare too well in the Premiership if I'm not mistaken.

 

Then Arsenal at WHL. Tasty.

[Mowen]

Man Utd away this weekend, an' all. Lovely.

 

 

...and ManU seething from recent injustices are going to be drinking blood before the game.

 

Maybe not. We know from your assertions that Spurs have started badly due to their DoF, so they can overcome their problems, but you've openly admitted you don't know why ManU have started badly, they're going to be in a real quandry

[Martin Lol]

The Spurs board are having a meeting tonight. 

 

The board will be meeting Jol tomorrow. 

 

Will it all get sorted out or will there be blood on the carpet??

[Mowen]

The Spurs board are having a meeting tonight. 

 

The board will be meeting Jol tomorrow. 

 

Will it all get sorted out or will there be blood on the carpet??

 

Get Comolli out I say, he's making you worse. Improvement far more noticable under Big Martin.

[Guest alex]

I hope Jol gets the boot. Purely from an NUFC point of view.

[Dave]

Ditto. It would be insane.

[Guest Sniffer]

Depends who they get in.

[UV]

I hope Jol doesn't get the boot. Purely from an NUFC point of view.

 

FYP

 

Distinctly average manager with limited tactical nouse. With Jol as manager, the best they can hope for is occasionally breaking into the top 4 no matter how much they spend.

[Guest alex]

I hope Jol doesn't get the boot. Purely from an NUFC point of view.

 

FYP

 

Distinctly average manager with limited tactical nouse. With Jol as manager, the best they can hope for is occasionally breaking into the top 4 no matter how much they spend.

Thanks for that, I knew what I meant though.