Have we actually got the wrong strikers for the 433?

[Parky]

Is this why Sam (not so subtly) has tried to offload Martins/Owen?

 

Owen no case need be made this system is totally alien to him and against everything he needs to thrive.

 

Martins although has pace, dosen't really make the instinctive runs (wide and cycle back in) that is needed. Further he isn't the best at

holding onto the ball to bring other into the game.

 

Does Shola even know what the big boys talk about?

[Kev]

Rather play 4-4-2, much more enjoyable to watch

were we playing 4-3-3 on saturday? because from where i was sitting it looked like 4-5-1 with martins and milner in midfield by the way they ran back to our own goal

Viduka cant handle upfront by himself

but 4-4-2 would be good

[madras]

anelka was always a similar sort of striker to owen,very much through the middle but not a hold up man and he played the 4-3-3- well but not in the authadox pulling wide style.

 

 

i'm not convinced we'll go 4-3-3 as a given,it may be the most used option but if he's gotr more options he'll use them,something he didn't have at bolton.

[madras]

Rather play 4-4-2, much more enjoyable to watch

were we playing 4-3-3 on saturday? because from where i was sitting it looked like 4-5-1 with martins and milner in midfield by the way they ran back to our own goal

Viduka cant handle upfront by himself

but 4-4-2 would be good

4-4-2 wasn't enjoyable last season or the season before,

 

4-3-3 with the right players playing well is better than 4-4-2 with poor players not having a clue what they are doing

[Kev]

Rather play 4-4-2, much more enjoyable to watch

were we playing 4-3-3 on saturday? because from where i was sitting it looked like 4-5-1 with martins and milner in midfield by the way they ran back to our own goal

Viduka cant handle upfront by himself

but 4-4-2 would be good

4-4-2 wasn't enjoyable last season or the season before,

 

4-3-3 with the right players playing well is better than 4-4-2 with poor players not having a clue what they are doing

 

but big sam might be the man for 4-4-2 to be good

[madras]

Rather play 4-4-2, much more enjoyable to watch

were we playing 4-3-3 on saturday? because from where i was sitting it looked like 4-5-1 with martins and milner in midfield by the way they ran back to our own goal

Viduka cant handle upfront by himself

but 4-4-2 would be good

4-4-2 wasn't enjoyable last season or the season before,

 

4-3-3 with the right players playing well is better than 4-4-2 with poor players not having a clue what they are doing

 

but big sam might be the man for 4-4-2 to be good

he might be the man to know when to play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or even 3-5-2 or 3-4-3

[Mowen]

Been mentioned a lot on this forum over the last week or so that our personnel doesn't particularly lend itself to 433, most notably the strikers. If we're going to keep playing it the key will be how quickly players adapt.

[Parky]

anelka was always a similar sort of striker to owen,very much through the middle but not a hold up man and he played the 4-3-3- well but not in the authadox pulling wide style.

 

 

i'm not convinced we'll go 4-3-3 as a given,it may be the most used option but if he's gotr more options he'll use them,something he didn't have at bolton.

 

 

Anelka has re-packaged his game but he was never similar (taking up positions wise) to Owen. He has always been one to carry the ball into the box or come into the box late. He has been a revelation at Bolton, adjusting his runs, pulling wide, carrying the ball while the cavalry arrive etc..

[Guest Ridzuan]

Dont think thats the case.I think we have good strikers who are able to play in any type of formation used,but I think 4-3-3 is not a good formation especially with Viduka playing.We need to revert back to 4-4-2 which I think will suit Viduka's type of play much better.

[Guest shaun11177]

Been saying this for weeks-Owen is a penalty box poacher nothing more you cant play him wide nor can you play Viduka wide.Fit the players you have into a system rather than having a syastem and trying to fit players into it.

[Guest alex]

Dont think thats the case.I think we have good strikers who are able to play in any type of formation used,but I think 4-3-3 is not a good formation especially with Viduka playing.We need to revert back to 4-4-2 which I think will suit Viduka's type of play much better.

You managed to disagree with yourself there I think.

[madras]

anelka was always a similar sort of striker to owen,very much through the middle but not a hold up man and he played the 4-3-3- well but not in the authadox pulling wide style.

 

 

i'm not convinced we'll go 4-3-3 as a given,it may be the most used option but if he's gotr more options he'll use them,something he didn't have at bolton.

 

 

Anelka has re-packaged his game but he was never similar (taking up positions wise) to Owen. He has always been one to carry the ball into the box or come into the box late. He has been a revelation at Bolton, adjusting his runs, pulling wide, carrying the ball while the cavalry arrive etc..

what i was getting at was that he was a through the middle striker,like owen (as for carrying the ball into the box and arriving late owen done that and had shearer style positioning in the box),and as you say he's changed his game,not as much as you think though,he played a lot more central than diouf.

 

i always thought owen was an underated footballer,after his first bad hamstring injury he lost the devestating pace,still quick but mot bellamyish,and he coped more than easily.he's a lot better holding the ball up than martins for example but if we are gonna punt it 8ft in the air he wont be able to.

[Northern Monkey]

Is this why Sam (not so subtly) has tried to offload Martins/Owen?

 

Owen no case need be made this system is totally alien to him and against everything he needs to thrive.

 

Martins although has pace, dosen't really make the instinctive runs (wide and cycle back in) that is needed. Further he isn't the best at

holding onto the ball to bring other into the game.

 

Does Shola even know what the big boys talk about?

 

Some good points. None of our forwards seem up to a 433, either out of style (Owen), lack of instinctive play (Obafemi Mitty), style and to a point ability (Viduka), and inability to be a decent Prem player full stop (Ameobi).

[Guest Ridzuan]

Dont think thats the case.I think we have good strikers who are able to play in any type of formation used,but I think 4-3-3 is not a good formation especially with Viduka playing.We need to revert back to 4-4-2 which I think will suit Viduka's type of play much better.

You managed to disagree with yourself there I think.

 

My main point is,if you want to play with Viduka,4-3-3 is a bad choice.You have to play in the 4-4-2 formation where the balls will come from the wide area and he would then be able to head the ball in which he is mostly good at.If not,then his talent is truly wasted.

[Dokko]

I think the team is horrifically unbalanced right now, mainly down to injuries, but we need a playmaker asap.

 

The forwards are living off nothing ATM, SA would be better to revert to 442 for the 1st half of the season until injuries clear up and Owen is fit and running, then selling him and trying to go 433.

 

But i'm of the opinion 433 or 451 should be used away from home, and a simple 442 should be used at SJP.

 

Why we bought Smith i do not know, but he's here, for the season at least.

[Northern Monkey]

Dont think thats the case.I think we have good strikers who are able to play in any type of formation used,but I think 4-3-3 is not a good formation especially with Viduka playing.We need to revert back to 4-4-2 which I think will suit Viduka's type of play much better.

You managed to disagree with yourself there I think.

 

My main point is,if you want to play with Viduka,4-3-3 is a bad choice.You have to play in the 4-4-2 formation where the balls will come from the wide area and he would then be able to head the ball in which he is mostly good at.If not,then his talent is truly wasted.

 

he couldn't cope with the ball in the air or on the ground at the weekend. And we can't blame "not settled into the premiership yet"!

[Guest alex]

Dont think thats the case.I think we have good strikers who are able to play in any type of formation used,but I think 4-3-3 is not a good formation especially with Viduka playing.We need to revert back to 4-4-2 which I think will suit Viduka's type of play much better.

You managed to disagree with yourself there I think.

 

My main point is,if you want to play with Viduka,4-3-3 is a bad choice.You have to play in the 4-4-2 formation where the balls will come from the wide area and he would then be able to head the ball in which he is mostly good at.If not,then his talent is truly wasted.

It was your opening words that disagreed with the premise of the thread. After that you agreed with it. That was my main point

[Shayno]

Yes i think this is a very good point. Luque would be suited to the left of the 4-3-3 though.

[Parky]

Yes i think this is a very good point. Luque would be suited to the left of the 4-3-3 though.

 

 

 

Hope this isn't a hijack attempt. >

[Dr Spectrum]

I remember over the Summer when Allardyce was first put in charge there was a feeling that the Bolton way was just a means to and ends because of his limited resources and now he was in charge of a better club he would change his ways and play properly. That seems to have gone right out of the window and he's now turning you into the new Bolton. Personally I don't think its on - there's a thread about "Was Gartside right?" or something like that about how his style drove fans away. While I believe thats a half truth (IMO it only drove away fair weather fans who had no idea what life was like in the 1st division and only turned up once they were in the premiership) I still don't think it has a future at a club like Newcastle where standards are much higher. And now you have the wrong strikers to play this ugly system. This notion that there is no place for a player of the calibre of Owen seems absolutely ludricous to me. How can you force out a player like that but yet pay for and play someone as limited as Alan fucking Smith. IMO Sam has to change his ways and play a system that will suit your good players.

[Northern Monkey]

Yes i think this is a very good point. Luque would be suited to the left of the 4-3-3 though.

 

Yes, yes he would. In Spain.

[Parky]

I remember over the Summer when Allardyce was first put in charge there was a feeling that the Bolton way was just a means to and ends because of his limited resources and now he was in charge of a better club he would change his ways and play properly. That seems to have gone right out of the window and he's now turning you into the new Bolton. Personally I don't think its on - there's a thread about "Was Gartside right?" or something like that about how his style drove fans away. While I believe thats a half truth (IMO it only drove away fair weather fans who had no idea what life was like in the 1st division and only turned up once they were in the premiership) I still don't think it has a future at a club like Newcastle where standards are much higher. And now you have the wrong strikers to play this ugly system. This notion that there is no place for a player of the calibre of Owen seems absolutely ludricous to me. How can you force out a player like that but yet pay for and play someone as limited as Alan fucking Smith. IMO Sam has to change his ways and play a system that will suit your good players.

 

 

Excellent post.

[Northern Monkey]

I remember over the Summer when Allardyce was first put in charge there was a feeling that the Bolton way was just a means to and ends because of his limited resources and now he was in charge of a better club he would change his ways and play properly. That seems to have gone right out of the window and he's now turning you into the new Bolton. Personally I don't think its on - there's a thread about "Was Gartside right?" or something like that about how his style drove fans away. While I believe thats a half truth (IMO it only drove away fair weather fans who had no idea what life was like in the 1st division and only turned up once they were in the premiership) I still don't think it has a future at a club like Newcastle where standards are much higher. And now you have the wrong strikers to play this ugly system. This notion that there is no place for a player of the calibre of Owen seems absolutely ludricous to me. How can you force out a player like that but yet pay for and play someone as limited as Alan fucking Smith. IMO Sam has to change his ways and play a system that will suit your good players.

 

Having a great start to the season AND talking sense. A double whammy from the blue half of Manchester!

[Guest black]

I remember over the Summer when Allardyce was first put in charge there was a feeling that the Bolton way was just a means to and ends because of his limited resources and now he was in charge of a better club he would change his ways and play properly. That seems to have gone right out of the window and he's now turning you into the new Bolton. Personally I don't think its on - there's a thread about "Was Gartside right?" or something like that about how his style drove fans away. While I believe thats a half truth (IMO it only drove away fair weather fans who had no idea what life was like in the 1st division and only turned up once they were in the premiership) I still don't think it has a future at a club like Newcastle where standards are much higher. And now you have the wrong strikers to play this ugly system. This notion that there is no place for a player of the calibre of Owen seems absolutely ludricous to me. How can you force out a player like that but yet pay for and play someone as limited as Alan fucking Smith. IMO Sam has to change his ways and play a system that will suit your good players.

 

Awesome 3-4-3 it is then!

[Guest alex]

I remember over the Summer when Allardyce was first put in charge there was a feeling that the Bolton way was just a means to and ends because of his limited resources and now he was in charge of a better club he would change his ways and play properly. That seems to have gone right out of the window and he's now turning you into the new Bolton. Personally I don't think its on - there's a thread about "Was Gartside right?" or something like that about how his style drove fans away. While I believe thats a half truth (IMO it only drove away fair weather fans who had no idea what life was like in the 1st division and only turned up once they were in the premiership) I still don't think it has a future at a club like Newcastle where standards are much higher. And now you have the wrong strikers to play this ugly system. This notion that there is no place for a player of the calibre of Owen seems absolutely ludricous to me. How can you force out a player like that but yet pay for and play someone as limited as Alan fucking Smith. IMO Sam has to change his ways and play a system that will suit your good players.

 

 

Excellent post.

Aye, spot on. Also, the comments from some also seem to forget the amount of dead wood that has been cleared out and how many new players have had to be brought in. We are a work in progress and we're two competitive games into a new regime in terms of the manager / coaching set-up and the boardroom. You're right about Owen too. A tiny piece of me would love to see the reaction of some of those wanting him to leave if he actually did. They'd probably have a pop at him for that too.