NJS

He would have players in his squad he didn't want. I have every reason to believe it would though - this summer has been a gradual positioning of power camps which the idiots "won" by singularly failing to strengthen the team where Keegan wanted it. They gradually imposed themselves on him over time. The next logical step is team selection.

How would we have been better off? If he hadn't come in January We'd have been relegated.

Sorry but that's exactly what he was asking him to do - not manage the club. Another point. Let's say he'd stayed. How long do you think it would have been before those "above" him started insisting he picked their players?

If he'd walked in May would we be better off? You can't separate the circumstances - I'm disappointed with him for going (at any time) but in some ways I think it was almost heroic of him to say as long as he did.

I must have missed it but at least I now know where to find it. congratulations, you found a quote from Keegan, when he thought he was going to be the manager, not the coach. No, it was a quote from Keegan saying he'd came back into a job where he didn't have a clue what to expect. He said he'd taken the job after speaking to Ashley and hearing his plans - I took it that he had a good feel for Ashley which was what made me happy. Pity the bloke turned out to be the locust he was described as isn't it?

Even if true Dunne and Riise are a hell of a lot better than what he have now.

HOW THE f***ing f*** CAN YOU BLAME KEEGAN FOR THE SQUAD WHEN WAS NOT f***ing RESPONSIBLE FOR SIGNING ANY OF THE f***ing PLAYERS. Because with those exact same players under Keegan and the players confident and no unrest amongst the fans, I reckon we'd be at the very least 3, maybe even 4 points better off right now. So we'd finish 12th instead of 16th? The squad is fatally weak. We have been told in no uncertain terms that that was down to a plan and that Keegan had no input into the plan. I'll ask a question - if Keegan had been "honest" and walked in May/June would we be any better off than we are now? Would the squad be the same? - Yes (though probably no Guthrie, Owen or Barton) Would we have a better manager? - I don't think so - but I'm sure the anoraks on here will be able to name some coach who guided a team to just about the edge of a nowhere place in some shit league which obviously makes them better than an anacrhonism like Keegan.

HOW THE FUCKING FUCK CAN YOU BLAME KEEGAN FOR THE SQUAD WHEN WAS NOT FUCKING RESPONSIBLE FOR SIGNING ANY OF THE FUCKING PLAYERS.

The structure was and is bollocks, the personnel are shit at their tasks and no money was going to be spent. If Keegan had left in May we'd have a Spanish coach nobody has heard of with the same shit squad. Aye. it's Keegan's fault like.

I know I'm banging my head against a brick wall here but what we needed was a combination of the sensible long term plan combined with a possible one-off initial spree to get us 5 or 6 places higher. The easiest way to do this would have been to let Wise et al get on with their thing (with KK's approval) and let the man himself have a reasonable budget to spend by himself. The latter of course didn't happen and the former stopped short of numbers. Now we're left with a squad lacking quantity and quality with no inspiration.

I would also question the fact that nearly all the players signed come from Spain (ie via Jiminez) - seems too specialised/insular/narrow to me.

1. Without naming people, how will we progress without well paid players? 2. I thought we were debt free

Dude, he said he'll spend all of that plus 20m. So if you say we could have spent 20m each season without him dipping his hands into his pocket then he's saying the manager could actually spend 40m each season. 2 summers prove that's a lie. Eh? Did you skip all the stuff about us having spent most of our revenue already and still paying money for transfers? That's from transfers under Shepherd - as Wullie said how many years of spending nothing should we accept in the name of stability?

Dude, he said he'll spend all of that plus 20m. So if you say we could have spent 20m each season without him dipping his hands into his pocket then he's saying the manager could actually spend 40m each season. 2 summers prove that's a lie.

The figures have never added up though have they? One minute we're debt free then we owe for transfers and now he's saying theres other debt as well as that. I also don't think the last published accounts reflect the level of debt he's consistently claimed.

At no time in this stay did Keegan ever give any hint that he didn't know that the budget was small/reasonable and he seemed pretty happy saying that. All we have is one planted shit-stirring article from someone around the board.

It's stunning, the club who pays his wages is managerless and that shitbag goes to watch another team, tosser. Or he's doing his job The job as described when he was appointed or the one we were told he had last week?

Been plenty of times, 2 seasons ago being the last time and i'm not being PC, i'm asking the genuine question, what the fuck has it got to do with cockneys? The implication is that them not coming from the region is a problem, therefore this sends out a brilliant message to would be Indian billionaires who are not even from the country. Thats not PC, thats thinking slightly bigger picture than small-minded regionalist attitudes. I get what you're saying but think the cockney thing is just a rallying point which is simplistic but understandable. I'm not sure how tall or thin Ambani is but would you say the same thing about the fat/dwarf insults?

This is the crux of the matter - how much of his role does this involve - if this was his main brief as originally mooted then again fair enough, work out of Heathrow, but if he is as central to the club as latterly suggested then the youth thing is a minor part at most.

For that side of the argument I'd move from "cockneys" to the "powers that be" which is more of a class thing than simple regionalism.

The airport argument should only apply to a scout - not an executive director or head of recruitment. The latter would obviously need to travel but only to negotiate so therefore not as much as a scout imo.

The players we are buying dont play in the north east, they've been mainly from Spain, if we set up an office in Madrid would that bother you too? If the structure was as defined by Keegan and the "old" statements from the club I'd have no objection and would welcome overseas offices. If it run as per the "fact" statement then Wise should be in Newcastle.

Fair enough bit one "good" thing about yesterday was that nobody crossed the line into violence - surely that shows the "hatred" is tame at best. Of course in the bigger world I'm very anti-tribalism - that's why I'm not a traditional patriot but I think in something like football it is fair enough up to a certain point. As I said originally no matter how much people argue about it, it is the basis of the passion in football. That doesn't mean I'm some kind of geordie supremacist who thinks anyone outside the NE should be banned - I know several fans from outside the region and have never had a problem with it. However I think the bedrock has to be local and I especially think the people who run the club, no matter where they are from, should run it from Newcastle.

Sorry I missed your last point - "cockney" is relevant to me not because of their birthplace but because of where the club is being run from.

Why the fuck did you think I put "hate" in quotes - I didn't mean it from a pro-violence point of view - I mean it from a rivalry point of view. One of the points I make when arguing about religion is that I recognise how human some of the elements in it are no matter how irrational and yes the same thing does apply to football. Maybe I've come across as suggesting I'd be happier if everybody was cold and logical about life but that's not the case. People are emotional animals and I'd like to see a decent balance between rationality and irrationality. Pointing out the differences in people because of their height or place of birth might be daft but it's so part of what makes us human as to be inseparable. If you want me to be cold and rational about our board then I can be - they have failed completely in their task to strengthen the squad and to run the club. However that does not prevent me from saying that I have always despised Denis Wise because he is an odious human being and yes there is a tribalistic element in that which I don't give a fuck if you look down your nose at me for.