Howaythelads

Unnecessarily personal mate, everyone is gutted about what happened. By the way, we were heading towards the bottom of the league even under Shepherd, and doing critical damage to our finances at the same time. How many people were crying out for another Albert Luque in the transfer window? Stop whinging.

Some real jokers posting. It's all down to Ashley. Fact is, he made a sound decision by appointing a quality manager in Keegan, but then he showed he knows nowt about football when he undermined him, thereby triggering the decline that has ultimately led to relegation today. It really is as simple as that. When people said it was impossible to have a worse Board than the previous one they were full of shit, we have been relegated today due to those running the club being totally inept and totally devoid of any ambition. Believe me, when some of you get your head out of your arse and accept this you'll start to feel a bit better. Not that I care how some of you feel, tbh.

Rubbish. Keegan is a good manager. Ashley appointed him but for some reason known only to himself, he didn't back him. Worse, he undermined him. If Ashley had backed Keegan properly, like someone with ambition would do, we wouldn't have been relegated today.

I'm as pissed off as I was the last time and the time before that. The only thing that is going to make me feel happier now is when Ashley goes and the people running the club show some ambition. As it stands, with Ashley running the show we're in for another relegation battle next season.

Agree with all of that *tin hat placed on head*. The first point being a key one. For the sake of sounding diplomatic, some - out of the names/posters mentioned - eventually saw the picture unfolding. Different story for some ala mandiarse, to just mention one name. And those who saw the writing on the wall - early in the peace/the direction the club was taking under *Wor' Ashley - were abused etc for posting as such. * i still remember the branding of Ashley as 'Wor' Ashley' by some, and by many as 'that breath of fresh air'. Well some of those very little piggys have had that their straw & so easily influenced houses blown down by that so-called breath of fresh air. An example being one of mandiarse's well worn & cliched one-line responses to a post i made with regards to the inevitable evaporation of Keegan's second stint in charge. I detailed enough points to explain my conclusion that the 'clock was ticking'. mandiarse's reply was 'overwritten bollocks, as usual'. Typical response i'd expect from somebody who thought that some fictional writer - that Stephen Spence bloke, or whatever the name was - was an instrumental assist provider, in one game, for Shearer back in his heyday. As for the second section placed in bold. I'm in complete agreement, and have posted as such in the past for numerous reasons. For the starters the club was chewed up in the second division, before the Halls & Shepherd arrived, thanks to McKeag's and Co lack of ambition post-relegation. Ardilles, as poor as his record was, never had a chance. Just like Jim Smith. IMO the current incarnation of the second division is more competive/cutthroat now. Over cautiousness, or a continued lack of ambition on Ashley's part, will result in further punishment beyond this season. That's a good post. To be fair, I've hardly spent any time at all on this forum for a long time now, I don't know who realised they were wrong, or even if any of them admitted it. That's because I've been pretty much driven away from newcastle-online by the inability of a number of people to debate anything, by the way they ignore nailed on facts, make stuff up that I haven't posted and frankly by the childish moderation that was going on. For example, people who hate the previous Board breaking forum rules time and time again yet bans being handed out to those with whom some moderators disagree. I also became fed up of being told by some Eskimo who has hardly been out of his igloo that I'm wrong about a club I've supported for 40 years. Cheers

getting what we deserve for saying we couldn't keep on going the way fred was and having to take a risk on ashley ? Why am I not surprised you still don't get it...? You and others are getting what you deserve because of your absolute refusal to believe that ambition is not automatic, for spouting off in miserable post after miserable post that no owner and Board could possibly be worse than the previous lot, for failing to appreciate the level of ambition shown by the previous Board. You deserve the present situation for constantly complaining about the Board despite them achieving something not previously achieved at this club for ~60 years. You constantly ran the club down despite the fact that at the start of a season we knew we'd be challenging for a top 4 position. We were making that sort of challenge due to the Board you called shit. You didn't appreciate what the club had and it appears you still don't. Stay up or go down today won't change the fact you are already getting what you deserve, which is a shit Board. You were told repeatedly that you don't know what a shit Board is and that the only way you will recognise one is when the club really does have a shit Board. Well we have one now but it seems I was wrong on that because you still don't get it.

giggle? By the way, Stoke don't belong on that list. Stoke is a decent sized club with a very strong fanbase, unlike the others.

Yup, lack of ambition is what it's all about. I have said lots of times that without ambition a club has no chance at all. I said ages ago that's it's far worse when the club is showing no ambition than when the Board is trying but ultimately falls short due to mistakes. This is the difference between the current lot and the previous lot. Plenty of people reckoned it was impossible for the club to have a worse owner/board than the last one. Mick, tmonkey, sima, omar, macbeth, BigTron, elbee909, baggio, mandiarse, wullie and boo boo to name a handful, though the list could go on and on. People said they were embarrassed at the media ramblings of Fred. Well, what's more embarrassing, idiotic comments of no real significance, or the laughing stock we've been turned into by Ashley and his crew? Many of you wouldn't listen to common sense. Not only that, you poured scorn and vitriol toward people like me for refusing to join your "hate the Board" bandwagon, effectively causing me to lose interest in this forum. It became a forum for whingers. Dave is even having a go at me this morning for saying some are getting what they deserve. Well, they are, though no doubt many of them will remain in denial. The "spin" that I'm in some way happy about this is as pathetic as it comes, given that I've been supporting the club for 41 years through thick and thin...mostly thin. So, what do you people think now? Do you still believe it was impossible for a worse to be in charge of the affairs of the club? Do you still believe the previous Board, despite their mistakes, showed no ambition? Do you still think the previous Board was outright shite, rather than a Board that tried to take the club somewhere? I'll tell you what I think. What we have now is a shite owner/board, it may even be worse than the pathetic efforts prior to John Hall. The evidence is laid out before you and is as stark as it's going to be regardless of what happens next week. Ashley and his crew are 100% at fault for the current desperate plight of the football club and anyone claiming anything different really needs to think again. So, at the end of the day, those people I mentioned at the top of this post, plus others I can't recall, are getting what they deserve. They believe being in the top division and finishing in the top 5 for 3 seasons in a row, something we previously accomplished between 1948-1951 = a Board showing no ambition. You couldn't make up such rubbish. We all want to be the best. We all want to win things but there aren't that many trophies and the competition is fierce. When the club is controlled by a Board that is trying to challenge for those trophies they are showing ambition. When the club is controlled by people who are not, they are showing no ambition. You should appreciate the first when it's happening but many of you didn't, you whinged instead. I don't even feel sorry for you that you didn't enjoy while it was happening. A pathetic bunch, tbh. From where I'm sitting, the worst may still be to come and I'm not talking about relegation next week. Some of you are getting what you deserve.

Still trying the spin, I see... Grow up, Dave.

Does it really? And how do you work that out? You ever seen the club get relegated? I'm not surprised that such a daft and childish "spin" is all you can come up with.

Let's rephrase it shall I...some are getting what they *deserve* That better for you?

Ashley and his crew are 100% to blame. Some are getting what they wished for...

So you think that the Taylor enquiry and subsiquent report were wrong too then? You can cling to that all you like, mate. If you want to take every government sponsored report as 100% gospel then you're as naive as they come. Think "scapegoat" and you'll be on the right lines.

It might already be too late. Ashley has done sod all because ambition is not automatic and that's what has been lacking since Ashley arrived, we would not be in this position had Ashley shown even the smallest amount of ambition to bring success on the pitch. There are no guarantees but it's s**** when the club is run by people who don't even try. You and others were told. Repeatedly. And you thought I (and others) were talking rubbish. I got sick and tired of dealing with ranting and abuse directed at me by certain pillocks (most regular posters) who are now saying EXACTLY what I was saying in the first place - and they're denying either that they ever did, or trying to say I said differently. Some can see whats going to happen, (because its so ****** obvious) some can't see beyond the end of their nose Join the "disgusted at gullibility and self-deceipt of fellow fans" troupe. Yeah, I got fed up of it as well. Some don't learn, some live in denial. I'm not sure which are worse. The ones who only turn up when the situation deteriorates allowing them to say I told you so? Not at all sunshine. You see, I knew all along I was right and that you and your type were full of shit. I've never been interested in any "I told you so" stuff. I'm more interested in whether whinging idiots like you have learned anything from what's been going on since ashley took over. I doubt you have.

Some sensible posts by Madras, mrmojorisin75 and Shearergol. For those who stupidly insist the police should take 100% of the blame, you need to take a good long look at yourselves. Some of the posts that appear to completely absolve people of individual responsibility are quite shocking. Yes, we have a Police force and they got it wrong, but individuals have to accept responsibility for their actions otherwise we'd have anarchy. It was the actions of some liverpool supporters that created the situation which the Police then messed up badly. Both are to blame.

It might already be too late. Ashley has done sod all because ambition is not automatic and that's what has been lacking since Ashley arrived, we would not be in this position had Ashley shown even the smallest amount of ambition to bring success on the pitch. There are no guarantees but it's s**** when the club is run by people who don't even try. You and others were told. Repeatedly. And you thought I (and others) were talking rubbish. I got sick and tired of dealing with ranting and abuse directed at me by certain pillocks (most regular posters) who are now saying EXACTLY what I was saying in the first place - and they're denying either that they ever did, or trying to say I said differently. Some can see whats going to happen, (because its so ****** obvious) some can't see beyond the end of their nose Join the "disgusted at gullibility and self-deceipt of fellow fans" troupe. Yeah, I got fed up of it as well. Some don't learn, some live in denial. I'm not sure which are worse.

Not being funny, mate. But what do you think caused the mass of people outside the ground? Do you really think liverpool supporters were in no way to blame at all? There were people there without tickets and it was more than a few. The number would have been significant because even a couple of hundred is significant when trying to force their way into that part of the ground. Do you think it ends with just those people without tickets? What about the people with tickets who turned up late, getting into a state of panic and trying to force their way in? Add that lot to the bunch without tickets and you've got a large group of people all trying to force their way in. Had this not been the situation what decisions would the Police have needed to take to get wrong? Answer=None. It wouldn't have happened. I really wish liverpool people could just accept their part in it and then drop the subject with just a small way of remembering it each year if that's what they want to do. Yes, we shouldn't forget this terrible incident, but the degree to which liverpool supporters go on about this year after year shows to me there is a bit of guilt in there somewhere. I think deep down they know, they just don't want to admit it.

Wonderful, mate, but I don't see where I questioned your service to football. You said..."Of course this is just my opinion on it all, so I won't continue with the blame thing further, anyone with half a brain and experience of policing at football games can go and read first hand accounts of witnesses who were at Hillsborough, and make up their own minds." The implication is obvious, you think anyone disagreeing with you can't possibly have much experience of seeing how football matches are policed, ie, they don't have much experience of attending football matches. I was putting you right, that's all. Perhaps you don't understand your own comment. A ridiculous over-reaction by the footballing authorities, treating the average football fan like an animal, and finally resulting in many deaths? yeah I've thought about it. An easy get out following that almost worn out path of liverpool fans failing to take responsibility for their actions and desperately looking for anything or anyone else to blame. The fences contributed to the situation in so far as they were there, but again it's cause and effect. If hordes of liverpool fans hadn't been attempting to illegally force their way into the stadium there wouldn't have been a problem at all. To suggest it was a few is rubbish. There were many, many more than a few. In any case, nobody has said the Police didn't make mistakes so there's no point in you harping on about it, nobody has to be convinced of that so your point is irrelevant. I didn't say that, but if you feel misrepresentation is your best way forward then that's up to you.

A few hundred ticketless fans* -v- thousands of fans being treat like fucking animals by both the police and fence erecting football authorities. *And according to some reports it appears that the authorities were herding fans into sections of the ground that were already full (no doubt these eye witnesses are all part of the scouse propaganda machine...). The thing is Dave it's not just about Hillsborough, it's about the way *all* fans are treat/were treated by the police/authorities. edited to add: Of course this is just my opinion on it all, so I won't continue with the blame thing further, anyone with half a brain and experience of policing at football games can go and read first hand accounts of witnesses who were at Hillsborough, and make up their own minds. Been going to football matches since 1968, mate. Thought I'd mention it given your comment above. I've stood in some rather large crowds as well, despite how crap we were over the years. Nearly been trod on by horses from time to time and all that. I didn't like the fences but they weren't put there to stop the players or the Police from entering the crowd. Think about it. Can I take it that by believing first hand accounts of witnesses who were at Hilsborough you're talking about liverpool fans and nobody else? What about the first hand accounts of the Police? What can be seen on video of people trying to break into the ground because they'd arrived there without tickets with that very intention? Does that not count or contribute toward this incident? Dave is right. It always descends into blame but that's usually because some nob throws in a ridiculous line about the Police, as though they were 100% the cause of the incident, then the discussion kicks off again because they weren't 100% the cause. Anyone with half a brain would know that, but the public wants a scapegoat for these things.

I'm saying that along with the Police they should accept some of the responsibility. How can you come out with a comment like that when you were not there and never experienced it ffs,In the 80,s when the toon played at hillsborough on a saturday in the late summer when it was boiling hot and the match ended every toon fan headed for the exits into a paddock area behind the stand and i guess i was about 16 at the time but they kept the gates for the exits locked but the police and stewards did absolutley nothing to help and there were literally thousands all crushing together waiting to get out and kids and a police woman had to be helped on to a low roof on a building on a outer wall to avoid injury , i will never forget that day as i was lifted off my feet in a wave of pushing and panic until the gates were opened . So dont come on here making throw away comments about something you know fuck all about Errr, because I did come out with the comment? How does that answer your question? Do you want me to embarrass you by asking you how you can lay all the blame on the Police when you were not there and never experienced it ffs? It's an obvious response to your post. It's probably difficult after a couple of cans, but I suggest you keep your insults to yourself if you want to have any credibility.

everything about the police there is true. they f***ed up big style that day. but anyone with experience of liverpool fans of the time and previous will tell you the same. how would i feel ? i'd feel as mad as hell towards anyone trying to gain entry to the ground without a ticket and the tactics they used to try to get in. You're a police apologist. Of course you are going to get some fans trying to get into the game by any means necessary, many fans of various teams, including us, were doing that kind of thing in those days (and for many years before). The police would of known this and are guilty of f***ing up big style, when they should of been there to help they did f*** all apart from make things worse. And you've been taken in by the Scouse "blame everybody else" propaganda machine. I expect it to get worse as time goes on. Fact is, if hundreds of them hadn't been there without tickets, drunk and trying to force their way into the stadium the Police wouldn't have had any decisions to get wrong. Yes, the Police made mistakes, but that was a reaction to events that didn't need to happen in the first place. To ignore it is ridiculous.

I'm saying that along with the Police they should accept some of the responsibility.

It might already be too late. Ashley has done sod all because ambition is not automatic and that's what has been lacking since Ashley arrived, we would not be in this position had Ashley shown even the smallest amount of ambition to bring success on the pitch. There are no guarantees but it's shite when the club is run by people who don't even try. You and others were told. Repeatedly. And you thought I (and others) were talking rubbish.

No. Never seen a liverpool fan accept responsibility for anything. They pin the blame for everything onto others.

18 months or so down the line, with the club going rapidly downhill since the day Mr Ashley took over from “Fat Fred,” how are those people feeling now who were adamant the club could not have a worse person running it than “Fat Fred?” Mr Ashley has been successful in business with his “poor man's JJB Sports” yet he is making a pigs-ear of running this football club. So, you have to ponder the following: 1.He doesn't have the ability to run a football club despite being a successful businessman. 2.Perhaps he's running the club the way he always intended? 3.Perhaps it's both #1 and #2. In relation to point #1: It's fairly obvious that running a football club isn't the same as running “any other business” despite what I've been told in the past. Normal business rules can't be applied. It is monumentally stupid to believe a football club can be run in all respects just like “any other business.” In relation to point #2: What was Mr Ashley's motivation for buying the club? Well, I suspected from the start his only motivation was to make money and I've seen nothing to change that opinion. Sadly for Mr Ashley, the economic situation across the globe has caught him out somewhat. Under normal circumstances owning the club for 2 or 3 years then selling it would have made money for him providing the club remained in the Premier League. And that's the answer right there. The limit of Mr Ashley's ambition for this football club has from the start been simply to remain in the top flight. This level of ambition is obviously massively less than the ambition of the previous administration, I think it is roughly the same as those before John Hall, though Mr Ashley's reasons for this lack of ambition are probably different. When the majority were complaining that Fat Fred kept putting his foot in it with the press, I said it didn't matter. When they said Fred should go because the club couldn't do worse than him, I said people were wrong. Time and time again I said all you can ask from those people running the club is they back the manager to build a team, that a Director Of Football is a nonsense and would not improve anything, but I was shouted down, even by some that claim to have been around pre John Hall. Significantly, I said that it's soul destroying supporting a club that you know is going nowhere because they aren't even trying to, so you should be careful what you wish for. Well, you got what you wished for. An administration has gone that backed successive managers to the hilt, one that did make mistakes but consistently tried to compete with the top clubs. Unfortunately it hasn't automatically been replaced by a better one as I was assured would be the case. No, it's been replaced by either ineptitude or by someone in it only for what he can get out of it. In relation to point #3: It's clear the club now has probably the least talented and least ambitious people at the helm since WWII. Survival in the top flight is enough for Mr Ashley, just as it was for those who came before John Hall and “Fat Fred,” though I think their reasons were probably different. It truly is soul-destroying watching what they are doing to this football club. The present administration rightly qualifies as the worst the club has seen in it's history.