Howaythelads

Citing whether or not Milner would be a first choice at one of the clubs who finished in the top 4 last season isn't a valid argument.

om I don't bother reading your posts much anymore and the one above is a good example of why. You never have managed to grasp the role of the manager versus the role of the Chairman and Board. It's also no surprise to see that name-calling is something you still throw into the mix when you don't have any valid point to make. The irony.

Smith and Geremi

Good signing. Will probably be a first choice and not a squad man at all.

Ad infinitum......

on the basis of what, exactly? Whatever I post will be rejected by you, I think there's little point bothering myself too much, so I'll just write a couple of lines in reply. I think he's a decent player, others do too and you and a few others don't. I think his best role is the one currently being occupied by Viduka but I think Smith can do that role better than Viduka if given a run. I hope FS uses Smith as a partner for Owen because that's his best chance of doing well for us. After saying that, even if Smith does go up front and does well, I don't think anything he does will convince you and a few others that he's a decent player.

I'll be happy to see Smith up front with Owen in a 4-4-2. He's definitely good enough.

....and slowly but surely Smudger began to enter the consciousness of the unwilling. You will always have people who are so negatively biased they can't see the obvious......they'll get there in the end.

Some people take things so literally..... It's obvious that the term "winner" is being used here to denote a person who appears to have a "winning mentality," not someone who has a shed load of medals. Football is a team game, even a squad game now, it's possible for an individual to be considered a "winner" in terms of their mentality but who may not have actually won a trophy. FS appears to be bringing that type of character to the club and the more the better, when it gets to the big games we may see them all turn up because it takes ability and character.

A sound squad player but this is someone we need to improve upon as a first choice if we are to get to where we want to be.

...and this was another. We've got off to a good start. I'm dubious of the 4-3-3 but it was 4-4-2 yesterday which I'm happy about. The spirit looks good, there is an organised look and some unity about the team that hasn't been seen for quite a while now. There are some people in this team who look like strong personalities and are decent footballers as well, these are the attributes you need and we seem to have them in some quantity now. Smith is one of those players, I'm not sure what the grief is some people seem to have with him. To say he's average or shit is a joke, tbh. It would be good if the moaners would shut up for a bit and look on the positive side. We're in for a decent season, no doubt about it.

Err, no it isn't, how do you work that out!? Smith and Kuyt are both similar, they are not penalty box strikers, more like forwards who operate outside of the box using their stamina, work rate and battling skills to harass the opposition and to toil away for their more skilled team-mates, while chipping in with a few goals and efforts at goal themselves. Play Smith up top in a run of games and you'd get pretty much the same out of him as Liverpool do with Kuyt. Ashton and Shearer though? The similarities end in their nationality as individuals. Ashton is more akin to Viduka than anyone else, especially Shearer. There are only a few sensible posts in this thread. This was one of them.

He's a striker and he has a winning mentality, the value of which is obviously something that isn't understood very well.

You dont think the players will adapt given time? I mean 5-10 games. Maybe. Doesn't matter really. I think this crop of players will perform better in a 4-4-2. Thought I'd add that I'm not against 4-3-3 per se. It'll be ok if some width comes from somewhere because you do need some width. Would that width not come from the likes of Beye/Solano (RWB/RB) and Enrique/N'Zogbia* (*if played as LWB) - so long as the DCM's can drop back and provide sufficient cover for any counterattack? In theory, of course it could. However, in practice it remains to be seen.

You dont think the players will adapt given time? I mean 5-10 games. Maybe. Doesn't matter really. I think this crop of players will perform better in a 4-4-2. Thought I'd add that I'm not against 4-3-3 per se. It'll be ok if some width comes from somewhere because you do need some width.

This has been done in another thread somewhere..... Taylor isn't good enough yet to be a first choice player. It's as easy as that and as has been said, he'll benefit from not being first choice unless he suffers from IES. (Inflated Ego Syndrome)

It's not a matter of patience, I've been waiting decades and have loads of patience. It's a matter of believing we'll do nowt using a 4-3-3.

Agreed. As I said earlier. An amazing thread that tells a story, tbh.

4-4-2 : Viduka or Smith + Owen or Martins. 4-3-3: Viduka or Smith + Owen and Martins.

Only read the first page and a half and gave up. What the hell has this forum come to?

We have 4 strikers, Viduka, Smith, Owen and Martins. Ameobi is a donkey, always has been and always will be. His level isn't anywhere near where we want to be and the sooner he's moved on, the better.

FS? fat sam? Good point. Soo childish! As childish as FFS?

Some of the comment I read about Taylor reminds me of stuff posted in the past about Jenas and Ameobi. Taylor is a young player learning the role who isn't good enough right now to be a first choice defender. It's good FS has brought a couple of players in who will take the pressure off Taylor and allow him to develop. Giving him more time could be the making of him, although I'm far from convinced he's going to be as good as I'd hoped. If he stays, all well and good. If he goes, I'm not that bothered if the fee is right and a decent replacement comes in.

For the right fee I'd sell. He's not as good as people make out. As has been said, he makes lots of basic errors, the type of errors the likes of Bramble was continually slated for.

To me it just complicates it. With everyone fit and no more signings or departures, how about this group of players used in a standard 4-4-2 formation: RB - Geremi/Carr CB - 2 from Cacapa, Taylor, Rozenthal LB - Enrique/Edgar/Babayaro RM - Solano/Milner CM - 2 from Butt/Barton/Emre LM - Zog/Duff FW - Owen/Martins, Viduka/Smith We have the wide players for 4-4-2, we have the strikers 4-4-2. We don't have the strikers, midfielders or fullbacks for 4-3-3. If FS persists with it I think it'll end up in tears like the shithead time in terms of everyone knowing the players can do better. I had thought we were on the right lines with the signings made by FS and I still think we are in quality of player and squad, but now he has to get the best from the players and the evidence so far isn't very encouraging on that score. Early days, yes, but 4-3-3 is shite for this group of players.