peasepud

So you dont want my money? thats fine, then heres the alternative. You get to go to the next meeting without joining and take part in everything other than votes, yet again though I expect you to put forward your views and again, report back on here about it. Im willing to be though that you wont take me up on it. Ive called your bluff and you dont have the bottle to turn up and see you're wrong. You also dont have any interest in actually doing anything for NUFC. Im not saying you dont support the club or love it anymore than the next fan but what I am saying is that you are an old man who likes to be an internet warrior. Shouting out about stuff in the relative privacy of the internet while sitting quietly nodding agreement with those in the pub "Oh aye Ashleys a shite man aye" when you have a half of stout in your hand while taking the alternative "look at me Im all different" view on here. My betting is though that once theres something in it for you such as reductions on stuff in shops or getting to go to the talk ins with old players and such then you'll quietly sign up, get your all important membership card yet still slag it off on here. And thats the bit that will sadden me "I'll take what I can get but Im not willing to do anything for it" attitude. I've put forward all the things that will be in place to allow your voice to be heard and to ensure that the actual views of the fans are registered. Im guessing that you however are scared to take part in those things because deep down you know that when you do your myth about "the majority of fans" will be blown out of the water.

...that doesn't exist. mackems.gif Misquoted again. mackems.gif So who was misquoted there then?

Seriously though Mick, Not even the staunchest of MA supporters could claim that hes showing any respect for us at all and before you counter it with the protests being the reason for that look back to when it all kicked off. Not one communication, no attempt to tell anyone what was going on and then when they finally did it was a pedantic "fact" based communication that everyone picked out contradictions in within minutes. Then nothing. So firstly, communication would be a good start. Tom, A forum isnt the way forward, firstly theres already a dozen of them around, here, TT, skunkers etc. Secondly its not the way to correctly gauge opinion, any one of the threads on here and others jump from one opinion to the other (thats what they're for). The website will have its members area set up which allows each member to answer a series of questions, these answers can be changed whenever you want so as opinions change then so should the results of the polls. This differs to polls on forums where they are a static one off answer and therefore not affected by current climate. I know Ive spoken about it in the past but these will be straight forward questions such as "are you happy with how NUFC is being ran?" Yes or No "do you think Mike Ashley should leave?" Yes or No etc etc but in all cases, questions where there can be no ambiguity. The likes of our press spokespeople will then check these before they do interviews etc and be able to say "80% of our members think...." and such. That is how those of you that say we wouldnt listen to your views should know they will be seen. These results will alos be available for every member to see themselves so its not like we will be changing them to suit ourselves. I also think there will be a need for people to leave comments on the answers but at the same time its no use leaving those comments there long term because that will throw how the results look. Maybe its a case of whenever you change an answer then you can add a comment and thats the only one that will be shown. What I do know though is that this is now quite urgent as is the paypal (but we cant get that in until all the necessary paperwork is there). Once thats in then we can start to easily get results rather than just when people email in or at the meetings. Work commitments at the minute mean that Im not devoting enough time to this so I need to look at drafting in additional web help.

I think the results of the above poll and the fact that only 50 people bothered to turn up to their big meeting means they are anything but representative of Newcastle fans. It's arrogance beyond belief. God forbid that they would ever be given any real power. I don't think its looks too good on you either to criticise a group of people who are trying to do something for the greater good that they believe in, when you can't be arsed yourself to do anything, whether going with them or opposing them. I oppose them. And I'm offended that a few dozen publicity seekers claim to be "representative" of Newcastle fans, as it seems are the majority of supporters. Is this the same majority that you say back Ashley? I've got a deal for you or at least for one of those that oppose the NUSC so strongly and reckon we wont listen to you. I will pay your membership on condition you turn up at the next meeting and make your voice heard and then more importantly report back on it here.

Agreed which is why other than todays letter you havent seen anything for a fortnight or so and shouldnt for a while unless we are asked to comment on an event. Did the letter portray the feelings of the majority of those who turned up and if not why was it released? I just think its worrying that its seems from your replies that theres not great cohesion within the group and what is being released is actually the views of a vocal minority which shows litle regard to the rest of the group and shows that the organisation is just being used as a propaganda vehicle for a select few to publically air there contorted views. Maybe I didnt word my last one properly. What I was meaning that if it was down to me I would have made more of the fact we want dialogue with him and changed a little bit of the wording. Yes that is what was agreed by the meeting however we also agreed that it needed to go out by today which didnt give as much time for consultation etc. That howver is why we have seperate roles for people, some people help organise others meet the media and some others write letters etc.

Agreed which is why other than todays letter you havent seen anything for a fortnight or so and shouldnt for a while unless we are asked to comment on an event.

What you need to remember though is the club is 6 weeks old, Rome wasnt built in a day. We had to get all the basics of the club in place, an interim committee, website, funding, plans for membership etc etc. all of the things you've mentioned will be done in time. We did try and co-ordinate stuff for the refund of overpayments when fans came to us and asked (you will find a post somewhere on here and TT from me asking for anyone affected by it). Timing however was out and the club started to pay up the day after we spoke to the BBC, some would claim that was as a result of our action, Im more inclined to believe it was coincidence. Either way though we were willing to take on the fight (and not just for those that were members). You must see that putting random polls etc will not gain a valid response, these things are taken over by people with other objectives, makems will have a field day, ive used this one before but look up when Man City decided to ask the fans what they should name their new stand. 15,000 non City fans voted for Bell so it could be called the Bell end. Serious question, what is it the reason why you're not willing to pay a small fee (for which you will get other benefits) for the right to have a say in whats done? See todays release, which I have to admit to not being 100% happy with, we needed to get it out quickly but I was looking to word it in a different way, putting forward the fact that we want to discuss the way forward and not just get a handle on how the sale is going. That was what the members agreed at the meeting. I did, as did another member of the committee and at least two other people from the floor. We put forward alternate views to the original motion and had it changed to what you see now which I think is a good compromise. We try and talk to Ashley, see what can be done, what the fans could do to change MA's current stance and how we can all come out of this with at least some semblance of credibility and more importantly a surviving football club. And we have realised that, what I think people dont seem to pick up is that this club (NUSC) was borne out of a meeting that had no preconceived plans and at that meeting EVERY one of the 250+ people there voted to take action against what was happening. So we did, I wont go into the whole thing again because theres a post of mine somewhere in this thread that explains it all. basically though 6 weeks ago everybody said this is what we should do, we did it and what we didnt do was keep an eye on how fan feeling was changing, that was a mistake but one that Im sure you can understand was easy to make when all the other work was going on. Finally, I dont agree your thoughts on an independent person on the committee, independent of what? we are not a collection of mates that decided to do this, most of us didnt know the rest before this started. We are all independent of each other, the only thing we have in common is our football club. There is no need for someone to keep an eye on whats done because we already have hundreds that will do that. Everything we do is transparent to our members, every penny in and out is accounted for and will be available for any member to view. Every major action (Im sure you agree we cant have votes for everything we do) is voted for by the members first. Those that are done without a vote are there and available for the members to pull apart afterwards if they think we've done wrong. Thanks however for a well thought out and constructed post, Im more than happy to spend the time replying to any like that and Im sure Tom will be too.

This is created by people who chuck litter on the ground not the people dishing out flyers. Bit like Wrigleys are not to blame for City Centre pavements having black circles all over them. Yes. The people who produce the flyers truly believe they will be read diligently and then carefully placed in a litter bin. No wonder you fell for the NUSC propoganda. You and 49 others it seems. Anyway the point was not taking a leaflet equals not being a Newcastle supporter in the eyes of those handing them out. How pompous is that ? And I would agree totally, that kind of attitude should have had no place in it. The leaflets I handed out were offered and if it looked like they werent interested I withdrew my hand. Not a problem at all, its everyones right to read or ignore anything thats handed to them and frankly Id rather it was turned down than be taken and just lobbed away without reading. All I can say in defence of the NUSC is that was clearly NOT an instruction to those leafletting. All were clearly told to just offer, never force and walk away in any kind of confrontation and under no circumstances get involved in an argument.

That doesnt even make any sense and you know it.

Then Liam you have clearly missed the point. A members meeting is there to debate views, are you seriously saying that a member of the committee should not put forward his views for fear of someone reporting them? Its a personal view, I have mine, you have yours. As long as I dont say mine are representative of the NUSC then its fine for me to have them. Michael can have personal views that all the board should be shot with shit for all I care, if the members dont agree them then it aint going to happen and they arent going to be reported as being a view of the NUSC.

The article you are all referring to is not a valid representation of what went on at the meeting. Heres my version of events, anyone else who was there is welcome to challenge them or back them as they see fit. Its right what other fans say about us all here, we're all too willing to believe the press when it suits us and dismiss it out of hand when it doesnt. In the case of some, when it comes to the NUSC they will ignore any good thats reported and jump on the possible negatives. The meeting was held in the Irish Club last night, that much he did get right. partially correct. What was agreed by the members there (and dont forget this is actual members not the interim committee mking these decisions) was that we would write an open letter to Mike Ashley asking him for talks. An olive branch as someone on here has already put it, a chance for him to meet with us and discuss whats happening, what the best way forward is and how he, and the fans can make this work. He wants to sell, the fans want him to sell but until he does then we all need to make the club stable. What was also agreed however was that if he refused to meet and speak to the fans then there would be no other option but to continue with the boycott and look to increase it. Again, this was agreed by the majority of those there. It was NOT a unanimous vote but it was view of the vast majority. In that majority were people who had previously spoke out against the boycott, questioned its worth and how it was to carry on. The discussions that followed and the agreement to seek talks had them agreeing fully to the plan. What a terribly written report this is! That quote has gained the reaction it was designed to, get people believing that its a quote from our spokesman to the press. It wasnt. During the discussions that sentence was uttered by Michael but it was in a discussion, it was his own personal view and does not represent the views of the club, it is not a valid NUSC statement. Its his own personal view said during a private members meeting. A view that was not shared by the next committee member to speak or the one after that (which was me). It is however a perfectly valid view and whether I agree or disagree with the view we both have the same understanding "its only the view of the NUSC if the members decide it is" Mick Martin also said something along the lines of what hes quoted but its not correct word for word, one simple word has been changed which makes a vast difference to the statement "Its the whole point of this action to pressure Ashley to sell". One word which when changed to club totally changes the statement. I've said it once and I'll say it a thousand times if I have to, the NUSC is NOT a pressure group, it WAS set up in response to a crisis and it was set up that way because EVERY single one of the 250+ NUFC fan at the original meeting for its formation agreed that its early aims were to pressurise Ashley. What more could be done? we set it up and followed the wishes of those that turned up for the inaugural (sic?) meeting, following those wishes until we could gauge the feeling of the fans again. That was done last night. Yes, we've made mistakes so far but who doesnt when you get a dozen people together with strong views on something that they believe in and have passion for in the way every Newcastle fan does. The rest of the article is factually correct however not enough has been made of the other stuff. The discussions around how money would be raised and spent. The talk of organising discounts for members and the planning of proper members nights with talk ins and entertainment etc. Things that a proper supporters club do. There also was no mention of the reading out of an email from someone seeking guidance on whether he should cancel his Direct Debit and how it was stated from the top table that to do that was not recommended and how we would not recommend that action to anyone, its not worth their while getting the bad credit. It didnt even bother to mention that we have already sent condolences to the family of the Sunderland fan that died on Saturday. Little things that are done by a supporters club to help raise the profile of NUFC supporters with the general community and other fans etc So basically yes, an article that focusses wrongly on one aspect of what was a good first proper meeting, a meeting that frankly showed to those that were there that we are not simply a pressure group and which affirmed (imho) the fact that this can work and we can have a group to be proud of.

how muich did you paw through that post looking for a negative? Out of everything he said there you managed to hunt through and find something to put a on. Dont forget though Mick, hes given you 15 days notice thats a lot more than the last meeting or is that still not enough warning?

It's only been 4 days I suppose. Not quite sure how you can stick a lol in there considering theres one person curently replying to emails (its over a weekend) and a backlog of them to get through. I would however say that every email received on the 8th has now been replied to so theres a problem somewhere if you havent received one.

it was out at about half five - ish. Yep, If this isnt true then it wasnt started by that thread on the Man City board as I was sent an email at 5.35 about it.

This is something thats been discussed and we're not sure other than a couple of things are possible. As was discussed at the first meeting, its possible that this will be a paid (£5 per year was touted as the sort of value) membership thing (signing up now merely shows you back the idea and not any kind of commitment to join the full thing) which would put off the wind up merchants. If it is paid though then it was fully agreed by all at the 2nd meeting that we would need to give a full statement of what the initial fees would be used for, that no members of the group would profit from it in any way and that all accounts would be transparent. Again though, this is an idea but it is one of the only guaranteed ways of keeping the Wind Up Merchants down, yes makems could be daft enough to pay to take the piss but at the same time they'd know their money was actually going towards NUFC fans, double jeopardy!!! Otherwise theres not many other ways you can guarantee to keep the WUMs from throwing the views, take a look at the Man City vote to name a stand. Thousands voted for the Bell End! After the first meeting I put a poll on TT about that subject and it was around 80% that were more than happy to pay, consensus in the thread was that they'd happily pay £10 or more. I do think half that is a sensible figure. If anyone has any other ideas as to how you can do this though then I'd be interested to hear them. Anything that achieves that aim is a good thing.

You can read that how you want but how it was meant was clearly different. The reference to the age wasnt in any way derogatory it was that the younger fans dont remember the really shit times we've had in the past. Thats not their fault but it does mean that someone under the age of 16 wasnt even born before KK came in as manager first time. Therefore you need to be in your mid to late twenties to even have a chance of remembering just how bad things were. Its only really people like NE5 etc that have the full grasp of just how bad it can get. I remember some of it, the immediate years before Hall and Shepherd came in and I dont want to go back to anything like that. I now see it happening again and possibly worse and thats what worries me. So apologies if its been taken the wrong way but theres no arguing that this is definitely a younger message board than others. Thats not a bad thing its just an observation and it was an observation I was using to come up with a reason why it may have differing views to other boards. I dont make any derogatory statement in there, I dont call the population of this place in any way I merely wonder how the views can be different. I even question myself at the end by wondering if those with differing views are actually right.

We are clearly at crossed wires here because I cant see what relevance those questions have to the debate. You know that I, or you or anyone else here cannot honestly answer them with fact. My disagreement (and I may even have got it lost as to who Im disagreeing with so apologies if I have) is with those that: 1) argue its a waste of time joining because its already been decided, 2) those that are saying that it shouldn't have been set up off the back of the 250 at the first meeting, what else could have been done? 3) The poster on here who blamed the SC founders for the current state of the club. So heres my side of things. We have set up a Supporters Club (which Im now going to refer to as SC because it gets confusing!), the SC has been set up following the current problems at the actual Club (for clarity Im going to refer to as NUFC). True Faith and the Mag announced on Monday that there would be a meeting to discuss the idea which would take place at the Irish Club the following evening, this announcement was made on numerous websites and in the Chronicle. The reasons TF and Mag decided to do this was due to the high number of emails they had received asking for direction in how to go about getting changes and protesting. It was then verified by Biffa that nufc.com had also received around 4k mails on the same subject. That meeting took place and approx 250 people turned up, the first thing that was made clear was that this was not just a protest meeting or group but the formation of a full scale proper Supporters Club which would be relevant at all times. It was clear at this meeting that nobody argued anything other than the fact they could only see things getting worse until Ashley sold the club (something he himself had already said). Now if people had stood up at that meeting and argued differently then maybe things wouldn't be put as they were in the later statement but nobody did (and when I say nobody I mean nobody). At the meeting they asked for names of people who were interested in helping out or could offer specific skills. Thats where the 20 of us that are now setting it up came from. Again, I reiterate this is not the actual committee, its merely an interim one to get it up and running, to get the mechanisms in place to enable fans to join etc. Once that has taken place and we have our required number of people then there will be proper elections to decide who takes it forward. At the second meeting the statement was written and then issued to the Chronicle, I went away and put together the very basic site that appeared on Friday lunchtime to coincide with the press release. And thats where we are at now, but to argue that I feel this way and wont listen to anyone else in this is wrong. My views on how the website (which is what Im responsible for) should take shape have been clear from the start. I don't want this SC representing the views of the few I want it to be showing what the majority of fans want regardless if thats in total disagreement with my own views. Thats why I am spending my time developing the site to incorporate a members area that will contain a number of questions that members can change their answer to daily if they want. This will allow us to gauge the views of the fans on an upto date basis without having them skewed by other factors. I meant what I said earlier, put a poll on 5 different internet forums and you'll get varying degrees of answers. Put that same poll in one central place where they all go and as long as you have a good cross section of members then you'll get a more realistic answer. These questions haven't been decided on or thought out yet but I would be determined that they will not have hidden meaning or be in any way ambiguous. They would be things such as "Do you think that the club is being ran well?", "Would you prefer an alternative owner to Mike Ashley?" "Do you agree with the stance the SC is taking?" that sort of thing. Again, these would not be my questions they would be agreed by many beforehand. They would also not be exclusive, there would be regular additional questions added as needed. Maybe a separate area for other stuff to be voted on etc. These questions would then allow the SC spokesperson to have upto date facts when in interviews etc as to how the NUFC fans are thinking. Being able to sit in an interview and say "well 92% of fans think that Ashley should go" is way better than the current position of one bloke who runs a fanzine saying what he thinks. To then be able to goto the weekly/ monthly/ quarterly/ whateverly meeting of the SC and say "well hold on, in the last week its dropped from 92 to 77% wanting him out somethings changing" would be a fantastic tool to shape how the SC goes forward. Again, if you argue that this wouldn't be representative of the fans then how? sign up and you can put whatever answers you want to those questions. I can guarantee you one thing though, have the view that its no good signing up because they've already decided and its different to your view will get you nowhere. You can only have a chance of changing things if you put your vote forward. You can have whatever personal views of me as you want, water off a ducks back frankly and I agree that I deserve half of them but when it comes to this I'm straight down the line with it, I've never felt so strongly about taking something forward as I do on this. One thing I wont be doing though is going forward for any kind of position in the elections. I'm not looking for an ego stroke or the likes, I'm doing something I believe in. The day the SC goes against what the majority of fans think though will be the day I stop having any involvement in it (and I will publicly let that be known).

Yes you are missing a trick, I've seen your posts on your forum, post 101 in "Press Release & radio Newcastle interview 4.10 today, Newcastle United Supporters Club." If you've got anything to say about what people say on here then say it here where those you talk about can see it. That would be this one then.... I would like to believe thats true but I have to say that I honestly think these people are serious. Maybe its an age thing? without wanting to push the whole "kids over there" bit its a fair assumption that the average age is lower than a lot of other forums. Maybe they arent as used to the whole disappointment thing, maybe they have a naive belief that all will be well. It confuses me it really does. If I was seeing the same things elsewhere I would understand it but we dont. Ive been on dozens of message boards in the last 24 hours shamelessly plugging the Supporters Club (did I mention it here? ) and while there Ive taken in any posts that look interesting but Ive not seen anything in the way of the apathy or (whats the opposite of dissent?) thats over there. Maybe we're the ones in the wrong and these lads are forward thinkers?

I believe its going on tomorrow. And Chez, as I said in my last post, list the questions and I'll answer them

What a crock of s***, all opinions are uniform everywhere bar this website? Talking through your arse. What opinion anyway? Are you referring to opinon on the DoF system, Ashley's expenditure in the summer, the lies about the finances, the undermining of Keegan, or Keegan's leaking to the media, the timing of his departure, or the subsequent response of the fans? Which one peasepud? Simple people like compartments to put things in, reality isnt like that. You don't have to go beyond the first line to see what they are about, regardless of who is right or wrong they want Ashley out. Aye and coming on here saying its about the fans having a voice but be aware that if you dont share our opinion you're in the minority. Doesnt even see his own hypocrisy, thats the frightening bit. I've signed up and support this but i do wonder if they are going to run through the 10 or so unanswered questions about this club and present the facts to back up any position they come up with, or just form an opinion like in the current vacuum of information we seem to be in? When I say that you're in the minority I mean that, not because you disagree with me or the NUSC but because if you go elsewhere on the internet, watch the news, read letters pages of newspapers etc etc you will not find many people arguing for the same as you are. Thats not being hypocritical its telling it like it is. Tell you what, how about me and you stand outside the Gallowgate on Wednesday night and ask the first 100 fans we see the same question and see how many agree with you? If more than 50 do then you're in the majority. Thats not being arsey, uptight or anything else its merely statistics. Now if you can list the 10 questions that Ive allegedly overlooked then I'll be happy to reply to each and every one with a full and honest answer.

Thank you, at least one person sees it for what it is. And Mick, 250 people didnt decide this, the 250 that made the effort to turn up at a meeting discussed this, this followed on from something like 4k+ emails that were received by nufc.com alone where the vast, vast majority were saying the same things. If you were so bothered by these things though why didnt you go to the meeting and argue the opposing point? And thats not being argumentative, Im interested to know what the reasons are for not wanting to make yourself heard.

It looks like this has been ignored, it's a bit rich that people who are trying to represent the fans are acting the way they are because not everybody shares the views which they have. Am I missing a trick here or is it just you who cant read? check 18 posts prior to the one I quote then feel free to apologise.

Because it's blatantly obvious that Ashley won't spend any money? Some people are so gullible, they don't realise Ashley has been treading water since he bought us, waiting for the right time to cash in. Even when he sells it for a big fat profit, it still wont sink in. Ashley will tell us he made nothing from it all, and play the victim. The fools will believe every lie he says. He's still the owner, he's still the one putting money in (however little that is). Until someone puts their money where their mouth is and buys in, it's best just to get on with it imo. http://www.toontastic.net/peasepud/headsand.jpg

Nice thought, however as SBR has already spoke out against the current owners then he will not be welcome at the club. Anybody who is not well in with them is being driven out.

This is not just a group to get Ashley out, its a fans collective for all times. The idea is that it'll work during the good times as well as the bad. I will simply reiterate my previous points, join up and have your say as a fan of Newcastle United, back the formation of a fans group (which is all we're asking you to do here) and then make sure you're voice is heard when they ask if we should protest. But be aware that your voice is in the serious minority here, take a step away from the cosy bounds of N-O and theres a whole different world out there. Different as in nobody else shares these views. The people who email the Mag, True-Faith, The Chronicle. Those that are posters on Skunkers, nufc-forum, toontastic, Football 365, Hawaythtoon, Singapore Mags, ToonArmy NY etc etc etc Wherever you go, whatever you read people agree as to the root of problems and what needs to happen to try and save the club.