madras

thats exactly how i see n'zogbia If you can't see any differences between the two then what's there to discuss? the only difference for me is that n'zogbia has greater potential (which i'm not sure will come through)

thats exactly how i see n'zogbia

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top. madras said we didnt need 'such a player' with beardsley and cole, that misses the point - beardsley was 'such a player'. to put it simply, if we had two andy coles up front, we'd be crying out for a Beardsley type, and if we had two Beardsley's upfront, we'd be in a superb position to exploit an andy cole type striker. feels like talking to a brick wall here sometimes but the phrase 'big target man' is a bit of a red herring. what we need is someone who can hold on to the ball, often with his back to goal, and link well with the midfield and other forwards and beardsley was world class at this, as was David Villa for spain in the Euros, as was Eto'o for Barca, or Tevez at man utd for instance and he's hardly tall or great in the air. whether the player we bring in is of the Drogba variety, a big, fast imposing striker, or a more creative type like Berbatov, isn't so important, but they have to do what ive listed above. Martins can win aerial balls and stretch the game as he has good pace and movement and agility, but his touch on the ground is haphazard and his passing not good enough to rely on him to be the main link player in a side. Owen these days plays far deeper and rarely plays with his back to goal. and while his passing is crisp and accurate, it is quite rudimentary, uncreative and uninspiring. he is someone who lays it off simply earlier on in an attack and then, after others work openings, he moves intelligently off-the-ball and follows up in the 2nd phase of an attack, getting on the end of chances. what we need is someone who is influential in the moments in-between these two stages of Owen's play. Is Saviola the player who can fulfill this role? from what ive seen, probably not, though i havent exhaustively analysed how he plays, he may prove adept at those aspects of the game. and his success or failure would not have that much to do with his height or lack of. of course, it is always nice to have the option of height or presence as it gives us greater variety to our attacks, and doesnt give opponents the chance to railroad us into playing a certain way which might alienate a forward line who all have the same weaknesses. as a further note, the examples listed are all those of successful teams, who are almost always on top of the game forcing the play. this isn't neccessarily going to be the case for us, but it does highlight the possibility of us making a success of a Saviola-Owen partnership. that would be if we had two wingers stretching the game and playing really high up the field, almost in a 4-2-4. that way Owen would be following the play rather than leading it, slightly behind the front-line, in the same way he is when he plays as a withdrawn striker/attacking midfielder, with the space in front of him opened up by quick, creative players. did I ? i partly agree with myself then.

Good spot on the little brush off of defenders he does before the ball even comes in. Very clever, and not something you'd always associate with a player like Owen. I don't think its somehting he always did though, he has added it to his game after being called a one dimensional striker and after losing a yard or two of pace its served him very well. Smaller strikers can benefit from defenders not expecting them to get their head onto crosses but with Owens timing he is very very adapt at it. owen,despite the physical differences, is very similar to shearer. lots of players go through a spell where they are in the right position and score but those that do it year in year out are few and far between, hard to get off the ball,plays the game simply and is very consistent in finding his teams players. a little alarmed with the lack of good movement from martins. i hiope its just down to not having the chance to build up a rapport with a strike partner Martins movement isn't as clever as Owen's, but then Owen's movement is slower and more restricted. It isn't always black and white even for Newcastle. dunno bout that. martins never seems to use his pace. We don't play the ball in front of him, beyond the last defender enough for him IMO. thats as much down to him because of his movement (this is a re-enactment of an hours longargument in the pub last night) I think its as much down to the lack of a ball player as well though. maybe,but yesterday it was strange how much we went wide when martins was on yet had much more options through the middle when owen came on. thats because owen's got link up play in his game, martins just hasnt, his first touch is too un-reliable. if you watch owen he very very rarely wastes the ball. Martins link up play is better than Owen's tbh, look at the link up play between him and Jonas at Old Trafford where he dropped deep and played him through twice, or yesterday where he dropped deep to play him through when he got chopped down by Joey O'Brien. Owen doesn't give the ball because he's has better control than Martins, but he also plays it safe the majority of the time rather than playing team mates in. you're only remembering the ones that came off. yes,owen often plays it safe but he loses the ball less than martins and his movement off that is far superior. keep ball is the game that the good teams do. watch the good teams ,it's rarely a fantastic pass but the movement that creates the opening the vast majority of times.

Good spot on the little brush off of defenders he does before the ball even comes in. Very clever, and not something you'd always associate with a player like Owen. I don't think its somehting he always did though, he has added it to his game after being called a one dimensional striker and after losing a yard or two of pace its served him very well. Smaller strikers can benefit from defenders not expecting them to get their head onto crosses but with Owens timing he is very very adapt at it. owen,despite the physical differences, is very similar to shearer. lots of players go through a spell where they are in the right position and score but those that do it year in year out are few and far between, hard to get off the ball,plays the game simply and is very consistent in finding his teams players. a little alarmed with the lack of good movement from martins. i hiope its just down to not having the chance to build up a rapport with a strike partner Martins movement isn't as clever as Owen's, but then Owen's movement is slower and more restricted. It isn't always black and white even for Newcastle. dunno bout that. martins never seems to use his pace. We don't play the ball in front of him, beyond the last defender enough for him IMO. thats as much down to him because of his movement (this is a re-enactment of an hours longargument in the pub last night) I think its as much down to the lack of a ball player as well though. maybe,but yesterday it was strange how much we went wide when martins was on yet had much more options through the middle when owen came on.

Good spot on the little brush off of defenders he does before the ball even comes in. Very clever, and not something you'd always associate with a player like Owen. I don't think its somehting he always did though, he has added it to his game after being called a one dimensional striker and after losing a yard or two of pace its served him very well. Smaller strikers can benefit from defenders not expecting them to get their head onto crosses but with Owens timing he is very very adapt at it. owen,despite the physical differences, is very similar to shearer. lots of players go through a spell where they are in the right position and score but those that do it year in year out are few and far between, hard to get off the ball,plays the game simply and is very consistent in finding his teams players. a little alarmed with the lack of good movement from martins. i hiope its just down to not having the chance to build up a rapport with a strike partner Martins movement isn't as clever as Owen's, but then Owen's movement is slower and more restricted. It isn't always black and white even for Newcastle. dunno bout that. martins never seems to use his pace. We don't play the ball in front of him, beyond the last defender enough for him IMO. thats as much down to him because of his movement (this is a re-enactment of an hours longargument in the pub last night)

Good spot on the little brush off of defenders he does before the ball even comes in. Very clever, and not something you'd always associate with a player like Owen. I don't think its somehting he always did though, he has added it to his game after being called a one dimensional striker and after losing a yard or two of pace its served him very well. Smaller strikers can benefit from defenders not expecting them to get their head onto crosses but with Owens timing he is very very adapt at it. owen,despite the physical differences, is very similar to shearer. lots of players go through a spell where they are in the right position and score but those that do it year in year out are few and far between, hard to get off the ball,plays the game simply and is very consistent in finding his teams players. a little alarmed with the lack of good movement from martins. i hiope its just down to not having the chance to build up a rapport with a strike partner Martins movement isn't as clever as Owen's, but then Owen's movement is slower and more restricted. It isn't always black and white even for Newcastle. dunno bout that. martins never seems to use his pace.

with watching owen more (though not nearly enough)he is a much better footballer than i gave him credit for.

Opposition defenders would be absolutely terrified of the thought of such pace running at them. Owen excluded. with owen it's movement and nouse.........even scarier than raw pace. i wish martins would use his pace more. at times he's too polite about it,as if he feels it's unfair to use it .

Good spot on the little brush off of defenders he does before the ball even comes in. Very clever, and not something you'd always associate with a player like Owen. I don't think its somehting he always did though, he has added it to his game after being called a one dimensional striker and after losing a yard or two of pace its served him very well. Smaller strikers can benefit from defenders not expecting them to get their head onto crosses but with Owens timing he is very very adapt at it. owen,despite the physical differences, is very similar to shearer. lots of players go through a spell where they are in the right position and score but those that do it year in year out are few and far between, hard to get off the ball,plays the game simply and is very consistent in finding his teams players. a little alarmed with the lack of good movement from martins. i hiope its just down to not having the chance to build up a rapport with a strike partner

I feel the same about our lack of quality options in the centre of our midfield. If only we'd have never 'let' Van Der Vaart go to Real Madrid. bit off topic but van der vaart and horse face sent off tonight.

just put £10 on benfica to beat rio ave at 2.5 with about 25mins left

well, as they had done it before, are you going to say they wouldn't have done it again ? Why not ? I don't think they would have. What about you? As lovejoy has pointed out, nobody is disputing that they had spent a lot of money. But at least they had a go, and succeeded too. Maybe they couldn't have done it again without investment. Thats the name of the game, but it doesn't mean that Ashley is doing it right. A lot of people are pretending they are happy with this summer, but they know within themselves that, unless something happens in the next 7 days, they are disappointed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Keegan will do a good job with the tools he has, but if they don't back him it is an opportunity wasted and he won't get anywhere near what he did the last time. i think thats a fair summary tbh but it's only half the stroy. follow it to where they left off to fully round it out,

well, as they had done it before, are you going to say they wouldn't have done it again ? Why not ? why not ?,,,because we were going backwards at an alarming rate and had recently appointed allardyce.

i'd rather you did for that.

Of course not. why did you delete the last post you made ? Did you realise how childish it was [again] ? I decided you're not worth the time of day. You can't answer a straight-forward question without bringing up a load of other bollocks, and that's about it. ditto Except, I've seen a lot more than you.....including therefore recognising what makes a good board. As for this thread, the crowd was the lowest for a canny few years. Doing everything right are they ? No they certainly are not. But it's also not their fault entirely for this, as we were on the slippery slope long before Ashley came in. Well mate, it would seem yesterday, a few thousand of our own fans - who should know differently - don't find the club as attractive as it was a year ago Surely not ? It's not just to do with last season though. As I've said we've been on the slippery slope for four years or so now. I feel more optimistic than I have though since SBR was in charge. I know that is for certain. As I feel the board have appointed the right man. There are also other factors as well such as the economic situation at the moment. But it certainly isn't all down to Mike Ashley that's for certain. you're the only person discussing this sensibly here tooj. I understand what you say, but with a week to go to the deadline, its clear where our weakness is and I think they should be pulling out all the stops to fill it, go for the european positions at least and if it costs money above budget so be it. why don't you think they are pulling out all the stops but just keeping quiet about it ?

That one doesn't get an answer, ever. broke the clubs transfer record for a defender a few months earlier ......... And 40m quid in the few years previously to go with it. Pretend that isn't true if it suits your opinion, as I'm sure you will. see. I told you

That one doesn't get an answer, ever. yes it does. he lumps in woodgate aswell without thinking it means that the net spend from the season before would then be about £4mill

Of course not. why did you delete the last post you made ? Did you realise how childish it was [again] ? I decided you're not worth the time of day. You can't answer a straight-forward question without bringing up a load of other bollocks, and that's about it. ditto Except, I've seen a lot more than you.....including therefore recognising what makes a good board. As for this thread, the crowd was the lowest for a canny few years. Doing everything right are they ? No they certainly are not. But it's also not their fault entirely for this, as we were on the slippery slope long before Ashley came in. Well mate, it would seem yesterday, a few thousand of our own fans - who should know differently - don't find the club as attractive as it was a year ago Surely not ? and yet the vast majority that i know of only keep going because those things changed.

Of course not. why did you delete the last post you made ? Did you realise how childish it was [again] ? I decided you're not worth the time of day. You can't answer a straight-forward question without bringing up a load of other bollocks, and that's about it. ditto Except, I've seen a lot more than you.....including therefore recognising what makes a good board. As for this thread, the crowd was the lowest for a canny few years. Doing everything right are they ? probably not but not everyone is like the previous board and gets everything right all the time. at the same time as commenting on thew crowd,be honest and ask yourself what the crowd would have been with allardyce still in charge ?

whats the story here ? is there some sort of meeting on wednesday ?

Like Tottenham and Sunderland? thinking man utd actually.

Oh yeah, you must be right then. I've seen every minute of both in a Sunderland shirt, you've seen Match of the Day highlights, but yeah, I'll bow to your superior knowledge. You may have seen Nosworthy more but you have a biased view of him, same as we do with some of our players. He's reliable and an average premiership defender probably in the Andy O Brien bracket if you're lucky. The question was who is better - Nosworthy or Evans. Evans is the better "footballer," Nosworthy the better defender. They compliment each other well. Evans made far more mistakes last season than Nosworthy. Bobby Moore he is not, but he is strong, very quick and good in the air. He's a reliable centre back and better than O'Brien. Imo. Not to say Evans won't go on to become the better of the two. I thought you were dead man. aye a voice of mackem reason....welcome back

n'zogbia is not an out and out winger

based on what ? Spurs away 2 seasons ago, amazun inet!!1 fair point...you win