Wullie

That was solid.

You gonna play? Has it not already started? Still time to get in

That’s not true though is it? Yes, it is true. Having spent time there with work (our company has since disinvested, some macro reasoning but also based on valuations), I have spoken to tens if not hundreds of people in their twenties and thirties in Riyadh who are open, global and good people who have studied outside Saudi and want to see and be part of it become a more open and tolerant society, while also being fiercely proud of their country and their religion. Saudi Arabia has a million miles to go to become close to being as progressive and advanced in certain areas as they could and should be if held to Western standards, but if you genuinely think they aren't moving forward in this regard when you look at generational trends, then you've not looked beyond headlines in the last few years. By way of a very obvious example, last time I was there several meetings with big banks and the regulator were led by females. Something this simple was inconceivable until fairly recently. Are they trying to use sports to improve their global standing and become more integrated in the western world? Absolutely. Does this make me feel uncomfortable when associated with my team? In some ways it does, in others I'm fairly accepting that this is cause and effect of broader society these days. Am I going to stop following / not attend games as a result? No, it means too much and it's been way too long since I've been able to truly enjoy watching Newcastle. If this comes off then it's mine and my dad's time to get to games and have some hope while he's still able. If it makes me a hypocrite so be it. It does get somewhat boring reading the standard left sided trope rolled out whenever it can be applied of Saudi (or US, or Israel) bad and evil without any balancing factors for the other sides involved in these proxy wars and nothing more than rudimentary understanding of the underlying centuries of religious and political discourse that have got the world to where it is. It becomes even more taxing watching it played out on a football forum. But such is life. Interesting post

That's fair. I meant more in terms of the most awful people on the planet to be owned by, we're not far off the top of the table. It doesn't feel good to me.

The Saudis bomb civilians and execute journalists man, it's not that ridiculous a comparison! It really should be, this is a football forum, we shouldn't be talking about fucking foreign policy. But this is where we inevitably end up when governments are allowed to buy our football clubs.

You know for a fact though, if the Nazis were around today and they bought a Premier League club, their fans would 100% be out in force on Twitter with "What about Abramovich though?"

It's not hyperbole to say that the Saudis are one of the closest things on Earth at the moment to the Nazis is it? If you were going to pick the most brutal regime around, is there one worse? North Korea possibly but at least they're not bombing anyone. The UK had pretty good relations with the Nazi regime up until the outbreak of war, Edward VIII was a friend of Hitler. I don't think "our government likes them" is the most robust defence, you could say the same about Assad and Gaddafi, these people are always our "friends" until they're not. You missed the point. Take all that moral s*** stuff to the other thread, not this one. Jeez. This is the main takeover thread. It's going to be discussed whether you like it or not. Jeez. So what do you want to happen, Wullie? Another boycoutt? Not at all. A matter for the individual conscience this one I think. I don't think the FA/PL should be allowing any states to own football clubs but that ship's already sailed.

aye, it is like Ok why? Who are the most brutal repressive regime on Earth at the moment? I've already said I'll give you North Korea, so discount them.

More shit craic... Genuinely can't believe people are taking the piss out of 'morality', beyond bizarre. Of course I want rid of Ashley...BUT IT'S TOTALLY SOUND TO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WHO BUYS US. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was a mackem consortium buying us. Probably fucking uproar It's not only sound morally, it's absolutely right to have a huge degree of scepticism about a new owner because they'll have total control of something we hold dear. I had absolutely no doubts about Ashley taking over being a good thing and have spent the last 12 years feeling bloody stupid about that.

It's not hyperbole to say that the Saudis are one of the closest things on Earth at the moment to the Nazis is it? If you were going to pick the most brutal regime around, is there one worse? North Korea possibly but at least they're not bombing anyone. The UK had pretty good relations with the Nazi regime up until the outbreak of war, Edward VIII was a friend of Hitler. I don't think "our government likes them" is the most robust defence, you could say the same about Assad and Gaddafi, these people are always our "friends" until they're not. You missed the point. Take all that moral shit stuff to the other thread, not this one. Jeez. This is the main takeover thread. It's going to be discussed whether you like it or not. Jeez.

It's not hyperbole to say that the Saudis are one of the closest things on Earth at the moment to the Nazis is it? If you were going to pick the most brutal regime around, is there one worse? North Korea possibly but at least they're not bombing anyone. The UK had pretty good relations with the Nazi regime up until the outbreak of war, Edward VIII was a friend of Hitler. I don't think "our government likes them" is the most robust defence, you could say the same about Assad and Gaddafi, these people are always our "friends" until they're not.

To elaborate on this: I have a laptop from HP, they assist in building equipment for the Isreali army who do what they do in Palenstine. As a gift I was bought Armani aftershave who made Nazi uniforms back in the day. We have medication from Bayer who deliberately infected people with HIV. We buy coffee from companies who exploit their farmers in third world countries. We live in a fucking shit world, but where do you start? Surely I'd have to boycott them all to avoid total hypocrisy? Interesting to see football clubs being compared to normal businesses where it suits. Isn't the whole point of them that they're meant to mean more than that? That's why they've had such pushback for furloughing staff (which I agree with, they should absolutely not be doing so) when in fact they fit every criteria of being a small/medium sized business in the UK, a Premier League football club turns over less money than a single branch of Tesco Extra.

HTT has been posting information from his sources on here for almost 20 years and I've never known him be right about a single thing, he doesn't even hit the average of a stopped clock.

Forgot Danny Mills existed, BBC must have fucked him off. Good decision.

I'd agree with all of that tbh.

I think you either accept it or you don't, as soon as you start the discussion on morality then you begin from a losing position, as the negatives of the regime currently outweigh the positives. Trying to justify if or overtly celebrating it (please no headscarves ) is just painting us in a bad light. Is anyone justifying or celebrating human rights abuses ffs? What absolute nonsense. People are overtly celebrating the departure of the club's horrible owner to be replaced by extremely wealthy new owners. The two issues ARE separate and people will eventually have to come down off their high horses when the realisation of their hypocrisy sets in. You still talking about journalists here? I'm talking about people who are wagging their disapproving fingers at NUFC fans over this takeover, be they journalists, own fans or other clubs' fans. Suddenly internet people have moral issues with the Saudi government? Is the concern for the victims genuine or is it just a fashionable topic to pontificate on? If the concern is genuine what have these people done to put pressure on their own governments to stop actively aiding this regime? Why does it come as a surprise to you that people are more concerned with something they hold dear to their heart than something they don't? It's important to me that NUFC is something to be proud of. I think it's the most important factor for me. It hasn't been for some years, but it is in serious danger of being even less so under the prospective new owners given their past and present. I don't think I need to have a long history of campaigning against Saudi Arabia to feel that way. If my mother suddenly decides to marry a serial killer and I'm not happy about it, an argument of "well I didn't hear you complain when he married his last wife!" doesn't hold a great deal of water. So the reputation/perception of NUFC is more important to you than the death and suffering of those unfortunate enough to be within reach of the Saudi oppression? Is that a fair summation? In the same way the cost of my phone contract is more important to me than the death of someone I don't know in Eritrea yesterday yes. I will be putting much more effort into addressing the former than the latter. I'm a human.

An interesting question to ask though, is how many people would be willing to actively protest against them when Haaland, Mbappe and Matty Longstaff are lashing the goals in? You know when Mike Ashley does something shitty in business and the news article always mentions the name of Newcastle United in there somewhere, and you feel a tinge of shame and disgust? We will probably seeing that happen in relation to war crimes.

I think you either accept it or you don't, as soon as you start the discussion on morality then you begin from a losing position, as the negatives of the regime currently outweigh the positives. Trying to justify if or overtly celebrating it (please no headscarves ) is just painting us in a bad light. Is anyone justifying or celebrating human rights abuses ffs? What absolute nonsense. People are overtly celebrating the departure of the club's horrible owner to be replaced by extremely wealthy new owners. The two issues ARE separate and people will eventually have to come down off their high horses when the realisation of their hypocrisy sets in. You still talking about journalists here? I'm talking about people who are wagging their disapproving fingers at NUFC fans over this takeover, be they journalists, own fans or other clubs' fans. Suddenly internet people have moral issues with the Saudi government? Is the concern for the victims genuine or is it just a fashionable topic to pontificate on? If the concern is genuine what have these people done to put pressure on their own governments to stop actively aiding this regime? Why does it come as a surprise to you that people are more concerned with something they hold dear to their heart than something they don't? It's important to me that NUFC is something to be proud of. I think it's the most important factor for me. It hasn't been for some years, but it is in serious danger of being even less so under the prospective new owners given their past and present. I don't think I need to have a long history of campaigning against Saudi Arabia to feel that way. If my mother suddenly decides to marry a serial killer and I'm not happy about it, an argument of "well I didn't hear you complain when he married his last wife!" doesn't hold a great deal of water.

Best post so far on this from SGTF I think, particularly the point about the Premier League.

Yep same. Good question, you'd instinctively expect there to be more than 5.

Yeah well put. It's the whataboutery I really can't stand.

I think it’s fair game people criticising this but do people think he stood up against his employer the same way he’s shaming Newcastle fans? Stood up to them by writing extremely critical pieces in a national newspaper maybe? So has he, or anyone at the Independent come out and criticised readers who pay their subscription fees to read their stories knowing some of it is going back to the Saudis? This is my only issue with it all. Ultimately the ownership structure of the Independent is an irrelevance as far as NUFC are concerned. Dismiss Delaney's concern with this "Gotcha!" if you like but the Twitterers are going to have their work cut out searching for similar to dismiss the concerns of everyone else. It's obvious that's what their strategy is, they did it with Holt last night as well. It speaks to how difficult this regime are to defend tbh, that the only way to do so is to attack the messenger. Good luck doing that with someone like David Conn.

I think it’s fair game people criticising this but do people think he stood up against his employer the same way he’s shaming Newcastle fans? Its a strange world when you cant criticise a hypocrite ... A hypocrite would be someone who says Newcastle fans should criticise but not do so himself. That's not the case. All this playing the man instead of the ball is a bit pathetic.

I think it’s fair game people criticising this but do people think he stood up against his employer the same way he’s shaming Newcastle fans? Stood up to them by writing extremely critical pieces in a national newspaper maybe?

What a strange world we live in when people think a journalist should not be critical of his publication's (part) owners.