Wullie

Why would Rondon have commanded massive wages? Was he on that at West Brom?

Yep, same. Just keep thinking... why didnt they back Rafa with that sort of money/investment? He was given Joselu. Simple. They didn't need to. Benitez could easily keep the club in the top flight with Joselu. Bagpuss can't. Same reason McClaren got given a load of money, because he was fucking hopeless. They just hoped the signings would offset it.

We always pay up front and always ask to receive installments.

Delph.

Of course he's not man.

He was always likely to release a load of the club's money for Bagpuss, in the same way he did for McClaren. Hopeless managers need more subsidy.

Wrong again. If we keep making a loss, and will keep making a loss in the future, he has to either keep taking the loss or has to sell for cheap and write some of the loss off. Like what Ellis Short did. He'll have no choice. If he asks unreasonable amounts for a club with debt, nobody will buy it off him and so it (and therefore he!) will keep making a loss. No failing business has ever had its owner keep the high business value and just tack the debt on and see a successful sale. History is replete with examples of businesses being sold for nominal sums like £1 because of how they're performing. Nothing you're saying makes sense. He's already asking for an unreasonable amount and the club is in over a 100m in debt... You remind me of the arguments I have with my parents about Brexit or global warming. There is no level of proof which is high enough to convince them that they might be wrong. No matter how much actual evidence I put in front of them, from experts and peer-reviewed sources, they just go "Nah, that's not right" and show me some Daily Mail article about how forrins are ruining the country. It's about as rewarding as trying to kick water up a hill. You're the same. Not saying your a Brexiteer or climate change denier, of course, but you're so deeply entrenched that where this is concerned there's no level of evidence which is satisfactory for you to question your standpoint. You just dismiss everything anyone puts as if none of it carries any weight whatsoever, no matter how backed in facts, figures, or historical evidence. I don't want to be rude to you, because you've not been rude to me or indeed anyone on here and for that at least I respect you. But I come from a scientific background and believe strongly in the scientific method. I like to think I'm very open to new ideas and reassessing my viewpoint in light of new information as that's how we grow as people and how we expand our horizons. But you don't have this in your DNA and when I can see that only one side is putting out a compelling case there's no way of getting around that discussing anything with you is just a complete waste of time. You haven't really shown me evidence though mate, you've basically just said that if you take away ticket revenue that we'd make a loss. I hadn't looked at the accounts and you're right we would make a loss. We made a profit of £18.7 so taking away ticket revenue we would make a loss. But do you really think that makes Ashley sell the club? We've had years in the past where we've made a loss and he hasn't sold the club or lowered his price. Im sorry like but just because you come from a scientific background that doesn't mean you're correct. Why would he hang onto something that makes heavy losses year on year if he wasn't able to stem them (because he wasn't selling shirts or tickets)? Would you hang onto something that's costing you a f***ing fortune that you get no benefit from? Actually yes you would, and you do. The club has made losses in this tenure previously and he hasn't sold the club, in fact the club was making a loss before he bought the f***er Year on year? Consistently? Without the crowd there to subsidise to the tune of £25m+ a year? When did this happen? Even if with ticket revenue the club made a loss and he still didn't sell the club What? What question are you even answering?

Wrong again. If we keep making a loss, and will keep making a loss in the future, he has to either keep taking the loss or has to sell for cheap and write some of the loss off. Like what Ellis Short did. He'll have no choice. If he asks unreasonable amounts for a club with debt, nobody will buy it off him and so it (and therefore he!) will keep making a loss. No failing business has ever had its owner keep the high business value and just tack the debt on and see a successful sale. History is replete with examples of businesses being sold for nominal sums like £1 because of how they're performing. Nothing you're saying makes sense. He's already asking for an unreasonable amount and the club is in over a 100m in debt... You remind me of the arguments I have with my parents about Brexit or global warming. There is no level of proof which is high enough to convince them that they might be wrong. No matter how much actual evidence I put in front of them, from experts and peer-reviewed sources, they just go "Nah, that's not right" and show me some Daily Mail article about how forrins are ruining the country. It's about as rewarding as trying to kick water up a hill. You're the same. Not saying your a Brexiteer or climate change denier, of course, but you're so deeply entrenched that where this is concerned there's no level of evidence which is satisfactory for you to question your standpoint. You just dismiss everything anyone puts as if none of it carries any weight whatsoever, no matter how backed in facts, figures, or historical evidence. I don't want to be rude to you, because you've not been rude to me or indeed anyone on here and for that at least I respect you. But I come from a scientific background and believe strongly in the scientific method. I like to think I'm very open to new ideas and reassessing my viewpoint in light of new information as that's how we grow as people and how we expand our horizons. But you don't have this in your DNA and when I can see that only one side is putting out a compelling case there's no way of getting around that discussing anything with you is just a complete waste of time. You haven't really shown me evidence though mate, you've basically just said that if you take away ticket revenue that we'd make a loss. I hadn't looked at the accounts and you're right we would make a loss. We made a profit of £18.7 so taking away ticket revenue we would make a loss. But do you really think that makes Ashley sell the club? We've had years in the past where we've made a loss and he hasn't sold the club or lowered his price. Im sorry like but just because you come from a scientific background that doesn't mean you're correct. Why would he hang onto something that makes heavy losses year on year if he wasn't able to stem them (because he wasn't selling shirts or tickets)? Would you hang onto something that's costing you a f***ing fortune that you get no benefit from? Actually yes you would, and you do. The club has made losses in this tenure previously and he hasn't sold the club, in fact the club was making a loss before he bought the fucker Year on year? Consistently? Without the crowd there to subsidise to the tune of £25m+ a year? When did this happen?

Wrong again. If we keep making a loss, and will keep making a loss in the future, he has to either keep taking the loss or has to sell for cheap and write some of the loss off. Like what Ellis Short did. He'll have no choice. If he asks unreasonable amounts for a club with debt, nobody will buy it off him and so it (and therefore he!) will keep making a loss. No failing business has ever had its owner keep the high business value and just tack the debt on and see a successful sale. History is replete with examples of businesses being sold for nominal sums like £1 because of how they're performing. Nothing you're saying makes sense. He's already asking for an unreasonable amount and the club is in over a 100m in debt... You remind me of the arguments I have with my parents about Brexit or global warming. There is no level of proof which is high enough to convince them that they might be wrong. No matter how much actual evidence I put in front of them, from experts and peer-reviewed sources, they just go "Nah, that's not right" and show me some Daily Mail article about how forrins are ruining the country. It's about as rewarding as trying to kick water up a hill. You're the same. Not saying your a Brexiteer or climate change denier, of course, but you're so deeply entrenched that where this is concerned there's no level of evidence which is satisfactory for you to question your standpoint. You just dismiss everything anyone puts as if none of it carries any weight whatsoever, no matter how backed in facts, figures, or historical evidence. I don't want to be rude to you, because you've not been rude to me or indeed anyone on here and for that at least I respect you. But I come from a scientific background and believe strongly in the scientific method. I like to think I'm very open to new ideas and reassessing my viewpoint in light of new information as that's how we grow as people and how we expand our horizons. But you don't have this in your DNA and when I can see that only one side is putting out a compelling case there's no way of getting around that discussing anything with you is just a complete waste of time. You haven't really shown me evidence though mate, you've basically just said that if you take away ticket revenue that we'd make a loss. I hadn't looked at the accounts and you're right we would make a loss. We made a profit of £18.7 so taking away ticket revenue we would make a loss. But do you really think that makes Ashley sell the club? We've had years in the past where we've made a loss and he hasn't sold the club or lowered his price. Im sorry like but just because you come from a scientific background that doesn't mean you're correct. Why would he hang onto something that makes heavy losses year on year if he wasn't able to stem them (because he wasn't selling shirts or tickets)? Would you hang onto something that's costing you a fucking fortune that you get no benefit from? Actually yes you would, and you do.

But if that "less revenue" is enough to mean the club makes him a loss rather than a profit, his whole reason for owning us disappears. It doesn't have to reduce his income to zero. Just enough to make us a millstone around his neck rather than a cash cow for him. Saying "but other revenue is more" is completely missing the point. Ticket revenue wouldn't be the difference between profit and loss How can you type that with a straight face? According to the latest released figures for 2017/18, we made an operating profit of £17.6m Ticket revenues were £24m So yes, on its own and without looking at anything else, ticket revenue absolutely is the difference between profit and loss for Mike Ashley. A further £28m was brought in through sponsorship, and trust me if you've got an empty stadium and nobody buying shirts then that takes a hit too. Add in further that if we go down, he looses the TV money and we'd all agree that a full stadium decreases the likelihood of relegation but to be honest to get shot of him it's a price I'd accept in a heartbeat to have my club back. In summary: Don't talk utter rot. I didn't look at the accounts Is that total profit of the club in the 2017-2018 season then? £17.6m? If we do make a loss, then the debt goes up by the way, which means the price goes up which means its even more difficult for a potential buyer. Seymour, surely you can see the gaps in your thinking here. If a business loses is value, regardless of the debt it has accrued, there will be no willing buyers paying the amount the seller is asking for with the cost of debt included within. For very recent evidence of this, see Sunderland: their owner had to basically give the club away to two idiots for almost nought, while having them give him the parachute money to pay back the debt he loaned to the club. Short sold the club in league 1,we're a premier league club where the ticket revenue isn't the main source of revenue. Take away ticket revenue and he would probably just reduce the transfer budget Bloody hell man. Then try and force the club down the divisions by not attending and reducing the home advantage (not that it'll take that anyway with Bagpuss in charge).

Wrong again. If we keep making a loss, and will keep making a loss in the future, he has to either keep taking the loss or has to sell for cheap and write some of the loss off. Like what Ellis Short did. He'll have no choice. If he asks unreasonable amounts for a club with debt, nobody will buy it off him and so it (and therefore he!) will keep making a loss. No failing business has ever had its owner keep the high business value and just tack the debt on and see a successful sale. History is replete with examples of businesses being sold for nominal sums like £1 because of how they're performing. Nothing you're saying makes sense. He's already asking for an unreasonable amount and the club is in over a 100m in debt... Debt to him. He's the only one it would cost money.

Wrong again. If we keep making a loss, and will keep making a loss in the future, he has to either keep taking the loss or has to sell for cheap and write some of the loss off. Like what Ellis Short did. He'll have no choice. If he asks unreasonable amounts for a club with debt, nobody will buy it off him and so it (and therefore he!) will keep making a loss. No failing business has ever had its owner keep the high business value and just tack the debt on and see a successful sale. History is replete with examples of businesses being sold for nominal sums like £1 because of how they're performing. Nothing you're saying makes sense. Mental gymnastics to avoid saying "I just want to go to the match"

But if you agree that the fans and club both have things they're expected to do... then if the club stops doing its side, surely fans are justified in walking away? The obligation on fans to not turn their back is based on an assumption that the club is trying. Ofcourse the fans are justified for not going, we've just lost one of the best managers that we'll get for a very long time, a manager who with the correct backing could taken this football club forward. I've not said that fans aren't justified for staying away, what I've consistently said is that I don't think staying away will help, which I don't. If I thought giving up my season ticket for ayear would help, I could go a year without going to a game, but I don't think it will. Thats my opinion which I'm entitled too. Would you miss one game, just to see? Or is that asking a bit too much? Do I need to go and ask the other 44,999 people you expect to turn up, face to face, if they'll boycott before you do? Aye, why not do that? Fans who go to games are worse than Mike Ashley, cancerous cretins apparently, they're holding your football club back by going to games? Why not go tell them how you feel? You obviously feel very strong about it So you won't miss one game? Also, I've not actually said that the fans who go to games are worse than Ashley, or cancer etc. One day will do f*** all man!!! Other supporters have What about a half empty stadium week in week out as I mentioned above? You don't think that will affect Ashley? Its less revenue, so he would be less happy obviously. But no I don't think that would make him sell the club, ticket revenue is a small percentage of his income. It wasn't in the Championship but you still went. You just want to go to the match and that's fair enough, good luck to you. It's the pretence that I can't abide. You know full well that an empty ground in the Championship would be enormously damaging to him. You just don't care. An empty ground in the championship? Fuckinghell man, is that really what you want? Why would it not be? You admit it would cripple the club financially then? So your assertion that your money doesn't matter to Ashley is total and utter bollocks.

Mckeag had a willing buyer/consortium that fought for years buying shares. Who's doing that now? Well 3 parties have tried. Kenyon, Stavely and now BZG But willing buyers are irrelevant because we don't have a willing seller. And we don't have a willing seller because he's making a profit out of the club/your season ticket money. Stop that, and he will become a willing seller. Then the buyers have a fighting chance. Where are they all now? You mean BZG who release statements through fucking DJ'S howay man They don't sound like a very credible buyer to me, sound like complete bullshitters This we agree on. Whole thing was total bollocks from day one. I think there are credible buyers out there though but they know full well Ashley is not a willing seller while the money keeps rolling in so we don't hear from them. Why waste their time?

But if you agree that the fans and club both have things they're expected to do... then if the club stops doing its side, surely fans are justified in walking away? The obligation on fans to not turn their back is based on an assumption that the club is trying. Ofcourse the fans are justified for not going, we've just lost one of the best managers that we'll get for a very long time, a manager who with the correct backing could taken this football club forward. I've not said that fans aren't justified for staying away, what I've consistently said is that I don't think staying away will help, which I don't. If I thought giving up my season ticket for ayear would help, I could go a year without going to a game, but I don't think it will. Thats my opinion which I'm entitled too. Would you miss one game, just to see? Or is that asking a bit too much? Do I need to go and ask the other 44,999 people you expect to turn up, face to face, if they'll boycott before you do? Aye, why not do that? Fans who go to games are worse than Mike Ashley, cancerous cretins apparently, they're holding your football club back by going to games? Why not go tell them how you feel? You obviously feel very strong about it So you won't miss one game? Also, I've not actually said that the fans who go to games are worse than Ashley, or cancer etc. One day will do f*** all man!!! Other supporters have What about a half empty stadium week in week out as I mentioned above? You don't think that will affect Ashley? Its less revenue, so he would be less happy obviously. But no I don't think that would make him sell the club, ticket revenue is a small percentage of his income. It wasn't in the Championship but you still went. You just want to go to the match and that's fair enough, good luck to you. It's the pretence that I can't abide. You know full well that an empty ground in the Championship would be enormously damaging to him. You just don't care.

You say that like it's not happening already and has been for ages?

He's been chosen because of how poor he is. You might be able to fund the club actively choosing objectively worse players and managers but I can't, and i don't know how you can claim to want the best for the club in the same breath.

Fuckinghell man All this because someone dares to renew their season ticket If you're this angry about it mate and you really want to make a change why not go the ground on match day and tell all these fans how much of a disgrace they are and that they should be ashamed of themselves? You keep saying this but I'm not sure what point it is you're trying to make.

Like you give a fuck about Bruce's previous employers man, just throwing your toys out the pram because he's not Rafa Because he's shite no? Statistically one of the worst ever Premier League managers. Indeed, employed because of that, not despite it.

As I said before you changed the point, the owner doesn't, which is why he let Benitez go in favour of Bruce. He literally went out to get a new manager BECAUSE THE NEW ONE WAS WORSE. He had a good one but actively wanted a worse one. The good one wanted a good team but the owner explicitly wants a mediocre team at best. I don't know how much simpler it needs to be spelled out.

Aye, the vision from Benitez was to be better! That's the point! Christ.

That article is all "me me me me me". MY essay about how much I love MY day out. They go on like anyone who has decided to stay away didn't like going in the first place: "Yeah it's easy for you to stay away but I like going to the match and the pub" Aye, cos the rest of us all hated that part, you fucking whopper. It's been a sacrifice for everyone, only the selfish won't make it.

From Fans Forum minutes, 23rd September 2013 Yep, nowt to do with Ashley, that. And since that, Ashley has come out in an interview and said that the aim is to win a trophy... And he won't leave until he does And you believe that to be true when he's just decided that he would prefer Steve Bruce to be the manager instead of a guy with more major honours than almost anyone else on the continent? I think your dependent might be telling little porkie pies.

Fuck all to do with Ashley how we get on in cups? Do we not use the same shite thin squad in the cups like? Is the manager supposed to get 11 ringers in? Alex Bruce will be fucking buzzing.

I'll be stunned if the numbers attending are consistently 45K+ this season like.