UV

I was going to say that but feared i may be tracked down and raped for such a suggestion Early in the year but I'd like to nominate Janitor as the dumbest poster on here so far and Decky a nose behind for his " Hmmm....that sounds like a good idea, why didn't I post that" ? I'm sure all of the clubs relegated so far from the premier league welcomed it, especially the chairmen. So f****** stupid. No, no, no you don't understand. It's the expectations of the supporters that make us play s*** football, and boos after some bad performances months ago that have caused Allardyce to be sacked by the chairman now. In reality Sunderland are miles ahead of us because they've already been relegated (in fact they did it twice just to make really sure of being successful). Soon enough other teams like Liverpool will realise what they've been doing wrong - all this winning the Champion's League nonsense has massively hampered their hopes of ever winning the league. They need to get themselves relegated to be more successful, the fools, and if we don't wake up and listen to people like The Janitor & Decky soon we'll fall way behind in the relegation stakes.

and Hughes, but I bet Bernard is the only one who would get many votes out of those 4, which is the point I was trying to make (ie not that they were all crap).

All teams (apart from the very best ones maybe) contain weak links. If we have 8 to 10 players capable of a top 6 finish, then the overall team should easily be able to (injuries excepted). How many of O'Brien, Bernard, Griffin & Hughes would people say would get in a top 6 side? Yet they all played over 20 league games when we came 3rd.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6136/scousersdt5.jpg http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2770/scousezr2.gif

Wasn't this the player Spurs blamed for not getting a Champions League place a couple of seasons ago?

He's already been in teams which finished 5th, 4th and 3rd and he was a major reason for us getting to 7th just 2 seasons ago. Ameobi, Carr, Emre, Given, N'Zogbia, Owen, Ramage, Taylor were in a team which finished 7th. Either: they're good enough they were carried by Babayaro, Boumsong, Bowyer, Bramble, Elliot, Amdy Faye, Parker, final season Shearer and Solano Souness & Roeder are exceptional managers to be able to put out a team which is greater than the sum of it's parts. Most if not all of the players we have are good enough to finish top 6, we just need 1 or 2 extra creative players in the heart of the team and a manager who can get them to play.

There are 3 million reasons a year for that.

Not so sure. No manager goes their career without a few bumpy runs of results. Sam lost 3 out of 4 games and this thread got started.. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=47244.0 A thread started because of another newspaper article saying we'd all jump for joy if Shearer became manager and mostly full of people saying he shouldn't be manager until he's had some experience? Good example. Doesn't alter the fact there was a 5 page debate on the pros and cons of getting shearer in just a few weeks after we'd been sitting 5th. You've posted 7 times in this thread. That must mean you want Shearer the most!

Not so sure. No manager goes their career without a few bumpy runs of results. Sam lost 3 out of 4 games and this thread got started.. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=47244.0 A thread started because of another newspaper article saying we'd all jump for joy if Shearer became manager and mostly full of people saying he shouldn't be manager until he's had some experience? Good example.

He has his reasons for doing that though!!! We might not know these reasons, but I'm sure he's not playing players out of position because he has an agenda to make us fail!!! We may not agree with these reasons, but we should just let him f****** get on with it and see where that takes us. He's playing players out of position BECAUSE OF SHEARER! Didn't you read the article? It's the ghost of Shearer that's causing the team to play poorly. It's so obvious now I've had it explained to me by a clever newspaperman. I posted this earlier: "Dont think the writer or article is shearer bashing in any way. What the man says is true. NUFC does have a penchant for the emotive. We really ARE suffering from what he calls messiahtitis or whatever. This is why it's essential that this period, with Ashley at the top, Mort running the show, and big sam on the touchline be separated mentally from the past 15 years of Newcastle's history, where messiahs have come and gone on a consistent basis (Hall, Keegan, Beardsley, Shearer, SBR), and where we ultimately achieved f*** all. The club needs a true fresh start, which the aforementioned ashley-mort-allardyce are trying to give us. We need to spare them the weight of our unrealistic expectations, and just let them f****** get on with it". is what he is trying to say He's not Shearer bashing, he's poor simple-minded Newcastle supporter bashing. If the manager does well, no one gives a shit about Shearer. End of story.

He has his reasons for doing that though!!! We might not know these reasons, but I'm sure he's not playing players out of position because he has an agenda to make us fail!!! We may not agree with these reasons, but we should just let him f****** get on with it and see where that takes us. He's playing players out of position BECAUSE OF SHEARER! Didn't you read the article? It's the ghost of Shearer that's causing the team to play poorly. It's so obvious now I've had it explained to me by a clever newspaperman.

I should be over it by now, but it pisses me off every time. If Shearer ever becomes manager we'll be playing the reserves in the league to make sure the first team is fit for the cup.

Every team in the world has the long term ambition to be the best team in the world. The only stumbling block to achieving this ambition is that every other team in the world has the long term ambition to be the best team in the world. We're not going to ever achieve that long term ambition if we don't first achieve short term goals, and the sooner we do that the better. Remember the fable of the tortoise & the hare? Boro, Bolton, Charlton are some of your models for this approach. Have there really been improvements off the field? Or have there just been changes? How is the improvement being measured? My guess is you'll say time is needed for these "improvements" to come to fruition and show results. Well I have no problem giving the manager and board time for things such as that, but not if it comes at the expense of the first team.

Couple more wins and we'll be near the european zone so try to calm your knee jerking ways as usual sir Sure genius Couple of more wins against Man Utd and Arsenal away from home and after that you woke up,discovered that the window is open its pretty cold and you wet your pants. HE WILL BE HERE FOR A LONG TIME... Seems like years already. :sad1:

Not true. If your expectation is Champions league football, your ambition is to win the league. If your expectation is UEFA cup football, your ambition is Champions league football. If your expectation is mid table, your ambition is UEFA cup football. If your expectation is lower table, your ambition is mid table. If your expectation is relegation, your ambition is lower table. In all cases your short term ambition is the next stage above your expectation, so lowering expectation inherently lowers (short term) ambition. What you are saying is that people's current expectation is too high and unrealistic for any manager. All others are saying is that expecting a visible improvement on the previous manager - who was considered bad enough to get rid of - is not an unreasonable expectation. You won't find many people who had Europe this season as a minimum expectation.

Is that a trick question? Not at all. As I've said it was similar when Souness was in charge, people who had no faith in him to be any good were demanding the club throw money at him. For me it depends upon what the Chairman and owner really think about Allardyce. If they are going to give him another year regardless of this year's performance, then they should offer him transfer money now on the understanding that anything spent will be taken off next year's budget, and should not interfere with his choice of player. If they are thinking about getting rid, then they should only allow him to buy anyone if he can convince them that the player will offer something different to the team, will have almost an immediate impact, and also could be sold on in the near future for the same or more than what we pay.

Replace those names with Robert, Shearer and Bellamy and you might start to get the idea. Actually I think there must be quite a few people who do miss Shepherd in a way, as now there's noone to make an easy scapegoat of for anything that goes wrong at the club or when they want to defend the poor performance of the manager.

Better player than Brown imo. Stick him and Faye together in the centre again and we'll be reet. Ben Haim looks s*** with very good players around him, Brown looks good with excellent players around him. Brown is twice the player Ben Haim is. Shrug. Ben Haim and Faye is a proven partnership that's done very, very well for Allardyce before. Is this the proven partnership which conceded 4 more goals than our regular Taylor/Bramble/Moore/Ramage/Onyewu/Huntington/Butt/Uncle Tom Cobley center partnership last season?

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. Yes I think I get it. Allardyce shouldn't have been given any transfer funds in the Summer to attempt to improve on the squad which finished 7th under Souness and Roeder as this raised fans expectations to a dangerous level where people foolishly expected to see signs of results and/or performances where we at least look like we might reach those dizzying heights once again, which is of course really bad for the club. Buying any more players in January in an attempt to improve the team would take us up to critical levels of expectation which would be even worse for the club. As a club we should aim to hang around in the mid to lower table positions for a number of seasons until fans expectations have reached a safe level so that hopefully we can be content with mid to lower table finishes each year, just being happy to stay in the league. This will reduce the pressure on the manager and board which as history has shown is the route to success. Of course, should we at some point in the future finish in a UEFA cup place as is the privilege of clubs which keep their managers for long enough, then we'll have to make sure we drop out of the competition as early as possible and sell off a few of our better players to avoid expectations rising to dangerous levels once again. Is that right? I only want to have the best interests of the club at heart.

....after 21 games....with 9 new players including a whole new back 4 and a new formation, are you surprised he isnt? Look at Man City. i dont think its a fair comparison tbh, they had a settled defensive unit, including a very good centre back pairing already performing very well, allardyce had to literally start again Garrido, Corluka & Ball have all been there less than a year, they've been chopping and changing their goalkeeper, and they lost one of their main centre-halves on a Free. and Richards was playing at RB last year.

Your expectations are just to avoid relegation? You're in for a treat this year IMO. I honestly wish I could be that confident.

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort?

Aye, that Torres is shit like. There wont be many other defenders he'll beat for pace over 40 yards.

These are the players you're blaming for poor performances this season? Emre? If he's never fit how is he affecting the performances? Has played 496 minutes of league football this season. 1 goal 4 assists - not bad for 5 1/2 games Duff? Has played 100 minutes of league football this season Owen? Has played 598 minutes of league football this season Ameobi? Has played 168 minutes of league football this season Carr? Has played 246 minutes of league football this season. Played in 1 of our 3 clean sheets Harper? Has played 9 league games this season. Conceded less goals than Given but was dropped as soon as Given was fit. The easy target outfield players you've picked to blame (coincidentally none of which are Allardyce's signings ) have played a combined total of around 1600 minutes, or 18 games, ie equivalent to 1 player over the season. I bet over half of every team we've put out are HIS signings ffs!

This is a wind up isn't it.