The College Dropout

Who was it that scored against Juventus? It was a defender. O'Brien, Hughes or Griffin. It was that goal that started the comeback.

He signed some very good players for us.

They do have something extra, their physical strengths more often than not. Trust me, what talent is in academies isn't that much different to what is out there in Sunday league kids' football. The gap isn't that big. I suggest you go and watch a few academy games and then a few normal Sunday league kids' football games to see for yourself. What you will notice is that a lot of academy kids are bigger, stronger and quicker but natural ability wise, there isn't much between them. Having been in the middle of numerous games of both types, I can confirm this is bollocks. What age groups PM? Obviously your 16 year old academy kids after a few years of coaching 2 hours a time 3 times a week using state of the art facilities are going to be more polished than the same age group who train once a week and play the game for fun with their local junior side. At the lower age levels, 7 and upwards however, based on games I've seen I can honestly say the talent or ability gap is not that big, or certainly not as big as you'd imagine. The standard of football may be better, but ability? There's as much difference in footballing ability as their is intelligence in young children. Obviously alot can go wrong and right in later years but differences are there. I've watched my 16 year old brother and 14 year old nephew play football for 8 years. My nephew in particular has always stood out and he might not even "make the grade"he plays for the Arsenal youths so I will forever be . I've watched my brother play for Crystal Palace youths and for a number of years it's been obvious who will definitely go on to bigger things... 2 of them have broken into the Palace first team this year. From a young age it's obvious who really has what it takes.

Owen scoring in crucial matches is a myth. In international tournaments his record is shambolic How is it a myth? off the top of my head... vs Argentina 98 (goal + pen) vs Brazil 02 vs Arsenal FA Cup Final (2 goals) vs Man Utd Charity Shield vs Portgual 04 (goal + pen) Euro 00 - one goal WC 02 - two goals Euro 04 - one goal 06 isn't worth mentioning against good defenders he's always been distinctly average at best That Euro 2000 team was a disgrace and got knocked out early. To say he was poor is unfair. He was probably at his peak during the years surrounding 2002. An Owen from 2001-2004 was very good. By the time he moved to Madrid he'd lost a yard but was still pretty quick.

Owen scoring in crucial matches is a myth. In international tournaments his record is shambolic How is it a myth? off the top of my head... vs Argentina 98 (goal + pen) vs Brazil 02 vs Arsenal FA Cup Final (2 goals) vs Man Utd Charity Shield vs Portgual 04 (goal + pen) Charity Shield? Owen's problem isn't that he doesn't score in crucial games, it's that he's finished. It's over. He's not as technically gifted or a natural goal scorer like Lineker or Shearer. I would like Owen to try and hit the top corner for onces. His shots are so weak when he tries to slide it in the corner.. he needs to whack that thing in the top corner.

Totally agree. The old policy meant we could get decent fees when we wanted to sell them as well.

I can't agree HTT. Looked a donkey when he first arrived. his overall game has come on leaps and bounds. He was no great shakes in France either.

Ramage isn't exactly Hercules is he? He's tall but skinny and slow. I don't think what you're saying is true. Look at the West Ham generation. Physically Lampard was a skinny one. No great physical specimen although pretty tall, same with Carrick but they had good footballing attributes. Joe Cole wasn't particularly pacey or strong. Rio Ferdinand is a very natural footballer. He had a ballet scholarship and all, does that mean he has good co-ordination?

I thought Martins was signed by Inter from another Italian club at a young age. I don't think they discovered him in Nigeria.

I was watching my brother play in a school football match 4 or so years ago. There was 1 lad who stood out, he was strong, quick and fairly tall for a 13/4 year old but he wasn't the exception in physicality on the pitch. The defender he was up against was bigger, stronger and could run as fast but this lad was on another planet. He was 2 seconds ahead of the others in every aspect, his first touch, passing and movement was just that level or 2 above the other lads and I don't think he was taught that. I recently discovered that the lad is called Victor Moses and he's recently emerged in the Crystal Palace first team. I don't know how long he had been training with Crystal Palace but all those years back he looked much better than the other lads.

Who said kids were the finished article before they went to academies then? They're the ones who've shown enough innate talent to there in the first place though. If what you were saying was correct though every kid who went to an academy and worked their socks off and looked after themselves in terms of lifestyle etc. would make the grade, whereas most of them don't because they don't have the natural talent etc. I honestly think HTT has been on the old "sticky-icky" again.

If Chambers practiced every day from the age of 8 for 10 years solid and got expert coaching from the likes of Inter Milan, he'd be sufficiently decent enough technically to be able to play football at a high level. High level being professional football. This isn't just my opinion btw, it's the opinion of most academies and even Arsene Wenger who all believe that football can be coached and learned by the vast majority of kids. Obviously it isn't as simple as that, many factors decide, but effectively, yes, anyone can become a footballer in theory with the right training, environment and will to succeed etc. I am fully in appreciation of how good professional footballers are btw, to such an extent I'm now starting to see that ability doesn't even tell you half of it, it's mainly what goes on in the head that determines how good a footballer someone can be or is. Technically Owen is no better than Martins, what separates the two is what goes on in the head and not ability. Oba is better than Michael.

I think Adebayour is feeling himself too much these days. He's got this swagger about him that makes him think he's Henry or something. When he was playing with Henry he was a little to humble, now Thierry has gone and he's scored a few goals he thinks he's the Don Donna. He plays shit when he has this attitude.. he needs to give 100% or he's garbage.

True. But at Newcastle we like to talk about one of our better players not being good enough whilst we have Smith and the like starting week-in week-out.

Also, coaching is massive in any players development, you of all people should know that, not just Martins. And even more important is natural ability and none football things like co-ordination which is where good control among other things come from- the very thing that Martins is rather s*** at. You need good co-ordination levels to control a ball sufficiently well which may appear to be a simple thing on the eye but many different layers of co-ordination have to work together in unison to follow it through, from the very decision to go for the ball, to judging the pace and flight of it, the right timing to react to it, the body posture to prepare for contact and of course the right kind of technique to control it. With Martins it's all over the place. If he times himself right, he'll select the wrong technique to bring it under control. If he reacts quickly to it, his body posture will be all wrong to prepare for 'accepting' the ball. He has serious problems with a ball in flight and even stationary balls or balls played to feet on the deck that it's actually quite sad because it's not really a flaw in his game per se as there isn't a thing he can do about it in training. It's just not as developed as his other traits. Technically he's decent, the way he does things is very good, especially his shooting technique and the way he uses his body to protect the ball. He has high skill levels too. and physically he's got the lot except height. But those co-ordination levels... this is where he blows so hot and cold. Every now and again his co-ordination will click together in unison (like the goal he scored away to Man City and against Bolton at the Reebok, the acrobatic goal) but 9 times out of 10 it will fail him hence why this 10m player will mis-control a simple pass so badly, it will literally bobble away from him, or why without pressure, he will struggle to make the ball stick. How many times does the ball go to him either at feet level or midrift, he uses his body well to protect the ball, only for it to go all horribly wrong? People ask why he doesn't take on his man more despite his pace... he can't, to dribble requires even more layers of co-ordination. It takes good co-ordination to shoot. you're on the ganja again aren't you?

The hell? Martins has brilliant shot technique, that's how he gets so much power behind them. He gets so much power behind his snap shots because his shooting technique allows him to get sufficient power when he gets little back lift. He strikes the ball more sweetly than any other player at our club. One of the goals he scored against Spurs last season highlights this, you could try a 100 times and not hit the ball so sweetly and powerfully. No co-ordination? Just look at the volley he had yesterday. Chest then boom.. his control of the ball is poor but he doesn't lack co-ordination. By your account Dwayne Chambers would be as good a footballer as Martins if he had the right training.

Blah blah blah. Shitty discussion going on here lads.

Usually it is, the magic of a club getting to the 4th round only to get twatted is not a lot of magic, but this year has been astonishing. Never thought I'd see an FA Cup like this, the way things have been going in football. No team outside the top 4 has won it since 1995, that's how boring it's become. This year has blown that to pieces. Thing is... even that "No team outside the top 4 since whenever" stuff is misleading. Chelsea won it twice I think when they weren't truly one of the big boys. West Ham where what 2 minutes away from winning it? That final was magical in itself. So many twists and turns, lucky goals and wonder goals to boot

Eh? Didn't Shola play 1 game and became permanently crocked?

He won't be here for 3 and a half years. I doubt anyone will get such time in the job here ever again, unless they are successful from the off. And that's why we may never become a successful side. I really want us to stick with a manage for 3 or 4 seasons and let him build HIS side but I don't think Keegan is the man for it.

None of the Champions League/UEFA Cup run players where replaced effectively. Solano > Milner with ease. Robert > Duff with ease. Speed > Butt with ease. Jenas > Barton with ease. Dyer is better than all the other shit we have in midfield as well. ALL 5 of those players had sound basic football ability. ALL have good first touches and could all do the simple things in the game. All those players had their limitations but they are far better than the shit we have today. Also, apart from Dyer all those players had good fitness records. It resulted in some of them being complacent but they all had a good understanding of each others game because they played together week-in week-out. Nobody was sad when Jenas & Dyer left...they had to move on and we got good fee's but boy did we waste the money on some shit.

He won't be here for 3 and a half years.

I think Oba is far better from long range than any of our other players, including Zog.

What a shit player.

Our fans are too impatient with Obafemi. This might sound hopeful but in his first season Oba was better than Drogba & Adebayour in their first seasons. But with a combination of hard-work, persistence, good coaching and confidence both players have become fine strikers.