The College Dropout

I think it was previously more noticeable. He’s more aggressive these days in the air. And the way we defend and how other teams attack has changed. But I would still want his defensive partner to be better than him at it.

This is one of the more difficult aspects of the transfer. Long term this signing is Schars replacement. But for this season the signing is his partner. Guehi is perfect in the regard that he can play both sides and uses both feet to distribute. But he has similar aerial weaknesses to Schar. Also there has to be question marks about Botman going forward. A lot of players come back from ACLs and are never as good. While some go on to improve. I also prefer Branthwaite to Guehi because he’s more my type of CB. But there are definitely drawbacks - left footed, Guehi is a leader, Guehi far more experienced, Guehi quicker, Braithwaite better in the air, assume more potential to improve. Still think there’s better value outside the division. Our current quality CBs came from abroad.

Summerville to West Ham. Good price.

I'm not certain Eddie is sold on Hall either tbh. Especially with Guehi at CB this season next to Schar.

Loved me a bit of Leon Beast.

Carr is the worst shout here. Awful.

I never get too down. Or too up. Like the sound of this. I had assumed we would live up RB - Schar - Burn - Kelly/Hall Burns time at left back is surely done anyway.

If he and his agent were wanting out there would be more rumours imo. I think if a City or PSG came knocking he would go. But I don’t think he’s going to chase a move or do the Moussa Sissoko.

Friends ask what happened to Mikel Merino at Newcastle. Was he bad? Bad management? Honest answer is Diame and Shelvey turned into Petit and Vieira-lite for a few months and Merino went crying off back to Sociedad. Prior Merino looked class.

Aye the lad can’t stay fit. I think that’s the reason for his limited appearances. Matip can’t stay fit either who I also think is class. I wouldn’t have Guehi ahead of a fully fit Schar-Botman partnership. But I do think he is of comparative ability and could potentially be even better under Howe. Im not sure he’s better than Romero or VDV of Spurs. I prefer their profiles although Romero is rash and I like the composure of Guehi a lot. I’m perhaps under rating his leadership and composure.

Dunno man. If they didn’t give him the super max they could’ve sold Bowen for a lot of money. If not for his exploits Paqueta would be a £100m sale. Kudus could be great - Brighton were in for him. Aye a lot of their signings are boring but they can afford to pay a little more on more established boring players. Without the acumen the Brighton approach would get West Ham relegated.

Good to mention that. He’s a level below a fully fit Konate for me. It’s awhile ago now but he was £35mish from memory. A lot of the fee is English and euros premium. Most of all proven in the PL. If we have the funds to also strengthen RW then great. Didn’t think Ben White was worth the money but he’s proven a top player (at RB).

You are right that the stats lack detail. But equally - they lack detail for every other player. His heading stats are similar to Schar. Schar’s defensive heading has long been one of his weaknesses. We can talk about all the statistical metrics known and unknown - but we all know that. There’s nuance but like.. Andy Carroll was/is good in the air. In a team built to his strengths - you would fancy him to target Guehi for example. You can compare any passing stats of Guehi to his partner Anderson or our lads. The penetration of his passes isn’t particularly impressive. And again - this is based off what I’ve seen primarily. Likewise, Hall passing stats are impressive… because Hall is an impressive passer. Highish volume, highish accuracy, high progression. You can see boshes passes through the lines. I think the bigger point is that our recruitment team may be prioritising other stats, potential, attributes on and off field.

So you’ve agreed. I never said he was bad at passing. But you said I did. I mentioned progressive passing twice and bad passing 0. Please stop twisting my words in the future. Ta. Ive agreed with you that he has the potential to be excellent at carrying the ball forward. He does it well now but he doesn’t do it to the level Schar (or Anderson) but that might be tactical as you say. I think he has the ability. He didn’t do it loads for England either but I would expect Howe to bring it out more. From what I’ve seen of him at Palace and England, and the stats. He looks super composed, good with his feet, tidy passer, quick. And not to mention a leader and a good egg. For me - for our team - at £60m I would hope for more physical dominance or aggression and/or more impact on the ball. I’ve not seen that to date. Doesnt mean it’s not possible or other things are more important or that I’ve missed it. For £60m I would hope for a level above or the potential to be a level above Schar/Botman. I personally dont see it. You do. Cool. Agree to disagree and hope you’re right.

This is why I think Tarie is a WUM. I’ve just acknowledged that point. This happened several times in the Minteh thread. Rather than insult them or mock them. I just stopped responding.

You are 100% right and I’m not suggesting ‘aerial win %’ or progressive passing is the be all and end all. I tend to start these posts ‘I think’ because it’s my opinion not a fact. I’ve said numerous times, heading might not be all that important. He could get better at it. There’s lots of other factors into the signing and I might be over emphasising the elements that I like the look of from a defender. I find people want to argue my opinion. They think my opinion is wrong eg he is worth £60m therefore everything I’m saying is wrong and has no merit. Then if I show merit (stats) just mock it - stats are boring, stats are wrong etc. I think Tarie is a WUM. But I’ve fully accepted that Guehi’s pace is a significant advantage to us as they’ve mentioned. Once we replace Pope we would have a back 5 that’s tremendously comfortable on the ball. These things might be game changers for us. I don’t dismiss other people’s genuine ideas.

I agree long term I like it more. But Botman isn’t likely to feature heavily this season so presents a potential issue in the short term. I also think Howe likes a big defence, so it makes it harder for Hall who I’m a big fan of. this one is more speculation. I generally prefer both CB to be good in the air like the best sides in the division. Some of which have found quality CBs for much less than £60m. Granted quick, good in the air, composed, strong, brings it out, penetrative passer etc. is a unicorn. There’s trade offs everywhere.

@KaKa I said Guehi looks comfortable on the ball but not an progressive passer. I then shared stats that show evidence that he’s not a progressive passer. I like that he distributes off both feet though. You then accused me of calling him a ‘bad passer’. Show me where I said that. I didn’t. You lied on me. You seem to think because I said he’s not a progressive passer = he’s a bad passer. And that if I think he can pass with both feet = he’s a progressive passer or something? It’s all v. binary and basic. I don’t mean to be rude but you are either heavily biased or incapable of nuanced thought.

The club definitely have access to far more sophisticated data than I do and it might prove me wrong about Guehi’s aerial ability. 100%. Not acting like there’s no room for error but it’s the best data that I have. The dozen+ clubs with greater pull than us also have access to more sophisticated data than me, why aren’t they in for him? They also had sophisticated data on Gordon, Bruno, Isak - why didn’t they sign them with their greater pull? If your point is ‘the club have better data than you, therefore your particular point here is invalid’. I think that’s a weak argument. There’s a whole multitude that goes into signings. All end up being judgment calls where in the end people get things right and wrong all the time.

I dunno mate. here’s Jarrod Branthwaite. Gabriel during his Lille days Laporte and Otamendi - I wouldn’t have considered Otamendi so good in the air Saliba in Ligue 1 as a kid. The stats from fbref and Whoscored also show compared to other PL CBs wor Guehi ranks towards the bottom for headers and winning headers %. We would struggle to find several top quality CBs with worse heading success. Schar might be one of them funnily enough. I haven’t paid close enough attention to him to know if he’s always putting attackers off in other ways that other defenders don’t. It’s possible. Also think heading ability is less important these days.

Stats are only boring when you don’t like the outcomes. If his stats mirrored VVD it would be celebrated and used as a reason to get further excited. I would stfu too.

Aye. So between now and then all we have is speculation about what he could potentially do and how he fits. I’ll continue to share my ideas - sharing my logic as best I can with any evidence to support that I can. Id appreciate if you engaged with the ideas in good faith for what they are or just ignored them. And not lie on my name to fit your narrative like you have.

Aye and Schar is considered a little poor in the air. VVD has been the standard over the last half decade. This is a small snapshot (9 games or so) but I think it’s fairly typical of him at his best:

He does have pace that’s a massive strength. He’s going to play with Schar at CB this season ideally - not Burn or Botman. That’s weak in the air. Also makes it more likely the best technical LB won’t start in favour of a better aerial option. I do think more teams are moving away. From big strikers which helps. Perhaps we play even higher and more aggressive this season too. Aye or a marquee signing. Our last marquee signing hasn’t gone so well but the one before that has been blockbuster.

it’s more of an issue this season with Botman out. You assume he’ll start alongside Schar this season and that’s a weak duo in the air. I suspect Burn or Kelly will start at LB at the beginning of this season for height to compensate. When Botman is back fully - it’s less of an issue.