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Jonas was nowhere near as bad last season as this one.

You don't need the best to stay in the Premier League though. None of those clubs I mentioned have attracted "the best" and the likes of West Brom have spent absolute bloody peanuts, but spent it so much better and used the players better. Fair enough, what I meant though is that how is he supposed to build a team when Wigan has a history of selling their best players every summer? Valencia, N'Zogbia, Moses and the list goes on. He has to restart and reintegrate a whole new squad every season. Stoke doesn't have to as they rely on players like Crouch, Huth and Shawcross who no one wants anyways but who are decent enough to keep the club in the top 75% in the league.

I'd say 7th. The top 6 teams have better squads, but I don't think the Merseyside teams have better squad. Liverpool as Suarez but the rest of their team isn't that good tbf.

It's not a great job, but it's also a matter of inheriting a shit squad and having to sell his best players as soon as they flourished and also I think it's been proven under us that you need a good scouting system in place to get the best players. He has had to go get players from outside who have had a difficulty adapting to Wigan as well as not being able to attract the best.

To be honest here, he might be as I don't think he would win us the league as some might think, but he is far ahead of Pardew. His squad is Championship level ffs. Caldwell captains his side, the fact they haven't been relegated in the last years gives him enormous credibility and while it might not work with his players he imposes a style of football which is nice to see and which is the foundation to why Swansea are where they are. It's a matter of having the right players for the right system, but I rather have the wrong players for his system, than the wrong players for Pardews system (if he actually has one).

I agree he is very negative when it's going against us but we aren't going to attract a manager of the profile you have mentioned No s*** I just want a positive manager, like Martinez. It's not about a positive manager, it's about a manager who sees football the way it should be seen. We can't seriously make a case that our squad is weaker than Soton, Norwich, Fulham, WBA, Stoke, WHam and yet we are sitting couple points behind them and without investments in the squad probably would've been even more points. I mean for me Villa has the worst squad in the league, yet we somehow managed to give them a chance to come close to drawing with us after being up 2-0. I think this and last season we have relied to much on individual brilliance and that Pardew gets far more praise than he deserves after wins.

Can't be arsed any more. Already. Aye, and I can't be arsed with your simplistic view of football. What I was trying to point out and maybe explained it in a weird way, what got our win that day was a lot to do with a Chelsea mistake at the back which led to Gouff running away from Oscar (!!!!) before Sissoko scored. It wasn't a creation of the imaginary mastertactician Alan Depardieu. The fact that some try to forget we have a very good starting 11 and point towards Pardew as a big reason for us finishing 5th last season is quite tiring. The man got us to the worst league start ever as soon as we got couple of injuries. Like Mick said, we rely almost barely on our players, and that's because we don't have a manager capable of winning games. If you start looking at individual mistakes like that (with our positives) then surely it's only fair to do the same with the negatives. If we hadn't given away a freekick or Perch had jumped Bale wouldn't have scored the first. If Taylor had won the ball or Colo hadn't just stood there Bale wouldn't have got the second. So basically, thanks to Pardew we would have beat Spurs it was just the mistakes and not Spurs outcoaching Pardew that cost us Now though, like I said and has been pointing out, every single game was an exaggeration, however, you're making a point to my case. A good coach would've started MBiwa and Tiote over Saylor and Perch. No you're just twisting things to favour your argument. MBiwa could have missed a crucial header Taylor made or Tiote may have been sent off for a reckless challenge or two leading us to get beaten by a bigger margin.

Harsh, but to an extent true. Me and palnese always agree with each other. We also know that Anderson is the best midfielder in the league.

Can't be arsed any more. Already. Aye, and I can't be arsed with your simplistic view of football. What I was trying to point out and maybe explained it in a weird way, what got our win that day was a lot to do with a Chelsea mistake at the back which led to Gouff running away from Oscar (!!!!) before Sissoko scored. It wasn't a creation of the imaginary mastertactician Alan Depardieu. The fact that some try to forget we have a very good starting 11 and point towards Pardew as a big reason for us finishing 5th last season is quite tiring. The man got us to the worst league start ever as soon as we got couple of injuries. Like Mick said, we rely almost barely on our players, and that's because we don't have a manager capable of winning games. If you start looking at individual mistakes like that (with our positives) then surely it's only fair to do the same with the negatives. If we hadn't given away a freekick or Perch had jumped Bale wouldn't have scored the first. If Taylor had won the ball or Colo hadn't just stood there Bale wouldn't have got the second. So basically, thanks to Pardew we would have beat Spurs it was just the mistakes and not Spurs outcoaching Pardew that cost us Now though, like I said and has been pointing out, every single game was an exaggeration, however, you're making a point to my case. A good coach would've started MBiwa and Tiote over Saylor and Perch.

I always knew he'd be shit. Very decent footballer, not a very good player Just doesn't give a shit about playing, he strolls around thinking of what the girl he'll get on with tonight will look like.

Can't be arsed any more. Already. Aye, and I can't be arsed with your simplistic view of football. What I was trying to point out and maybe explained it in a weird way, what got our win that day was a lot to do with a Chelsea mistake at the back which led to Gouff running away from Oscar (!!!!) before Sissoko scored. It wasn't a creation of the imaginary mastertactician Alan Depardieu. The fact that some try to forget we have a very good starting 11 and point towards Pardew as a big reason for us finishing 5th last season is quite tiring. The man got us to the worst league start ever as soon as we got couple of injuries. Like Mick said, we rely almost barely on our players, and that's because we don't have a manager capable of winning games.

I can't see anything from Pardew to make me think he's going to give us an edge. I think we're almost completely reliant on our players getting us results. I know that’s probably far too simplistic to say but I can’t be bothered to go into any detail. I can't even see anything being built by him under the first team and you would think that a manager with his length of contract would be trying to build something for the future, he's not, at least I've seen no evidence of it. It's a pity because he's working from a position of strength because the people he works for clearly want him to do well. Have a vague memory of you being one the only ones on my side re: Pardew last season when winning. Agree with everything you said btw.

I said it last season and I'll say it this season too. Pardew isn't the real reason for us finishing so high up. I'm sorry but we had a starting eleven very capable of that finish. We were riding a lot on confidence and tactically Pardew isn't great. And for the EVERY SINGLE game it was clearly an over-exaggeration. I just don't think he's a good manager and was saying that last season even when we were winning. Although tbf there are quite a lot of bad managers out there, Big Sam being one of them. Not sure thats quite true, felt we dominated the majority of the game against Chelsea. I do agree he is VERY limited though and if he can't get the best out of this group of players next season then he should go, but i would give him next season though to see how he does. I don't think we dominated but did play well, but the stadium was buzzing and carried that team to a win as soon as Gouff helped us get that 2nd goal.

Almost like there's an unspoken mandate from the FA to help him have a 'cleaner' image. It's a joke really. Refereeing is so inconsistent in this league I wonder if the refs get raped (and i really mean RAPED Titus style) whenever they make a mistake against the big teams. Nah, I just think the English game is corrupt as all hell and the matches are passively fixed. Tim D is that you?

Very good buildup there for the goal.

TBF Ashley and Derek looked drunk ashell when they went to their seats in the 2nd half.

Almost like there's an unspoken mandate from the FA to help him have a 'cleaner' image. It's a joke really. Refereeing is so inconsistent in this league I wonder if the refs get raped (and i really mean RAPED Titus style) whenever they make a mistake against the big teams.

I actually enjoy them most of the time tbf. If it wasn't for Sir Alex and some of their t***s I would hope they'd beat Real. Which games have been enjoyable? Against us for one The FUlham one was decent, the City games, the Liverpool games and so on. Sir Alex team plays the best stuff in the league. They're effective and ruthless. All that banging your head against the wall from watching us is starting to take it's toll. TBH, I rarely watch anyone except us and the top 5-6. And I enjoy Spurs and Man U for some reason. Obviously arsenal plays good stuff, but they're shambles at times and unable to create stuff. And yeah, might be the fact that we are so unexciting that I enjoy Man U.

It's in these moments they should book Rooney. He can mouth off at anyone. Spoilt-brat.

I actually enjoy them most of the time tbf. If it wasn't for Sir Alex and some of their t***s I would hope they'd beat Real. Which games have been enjoyable? Against us for one The FUlham one was decent, the City games, the Liverpool games and so on. Sir Alex team plays the best stuff in the league. They're effective and ruthless. Oh and I enjoy Wigan a lot for the fact that it's shit players trying to play good football and it's funny.

Pardew is out-coached every single game ffs. The sooner the board realizes this the better.

I actually enjoy them most of the time tbf. If it wasn't for Sir Alex and some of their twats I would hope they'd beat Real.

The people however who are saying these are those that are in the wrong. I think in the end not everyone is that stubborn on here as indi is trying to suggest as well as the fact that this is a football forum and is for the discussion of everything. I mean what's the point in even discussing stuff like performances and so on if we can't go back in time and change it?

Giggs giggs