Teasy

Change the record dingus.

What about Wise's own words on the matter, you're yet to comment on them..

You think that Mike Ashley/Dennis Wise ect ARE the club?

Keegan didnt know everything about Wise's role but how do we know Kevin wasnt told "that whatever Dennis does, he is completely under your control and he isnt in any way a threat to you" or perhaps "Dennis role doesnt infringe on the 1st team at all" ? If that was the case he would have no need to be anything other than happy and he certainly wouldnt be contradicting the Allardyce comparison. Your as guilty of making assumptions as anyone else. "Dennis will assist the Board on football-related matters, including the development of the Club's Academy and player recruitment. He will report to the Chairman. Tony and Jeff will also assist in player recruitment. The arrival of these three new recruits follows on from the recent appointment of Kevin Keegan as manager. Kevin will be responsible for all matters related to the First Team." "With Kevin able to devote his efforts to developing and running the first team squad, Dennis, Tony and Jeff will each help us to secure success for Newcastle United Football Club at all levels and for the long-term" http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html pretty clear imo. How do first team transfers not relate to the first team then? Sorry but to me those comments are pretty clearly saying that Keegan makes all final decisions relating to the first team which would include transfers and that Wise merely helps to finalise the deals. Wise himself said something similar around the same time. Selective reading. You can't get much clearer than "Dennis Wise will assist the board on football-related matters, including the development of the Club's Academy and player recruitment. Did anyone claim that he had nothing to do with it like? No, but it's selective interpretation. Nowhere in that statement does it say, "Keegan will be in charge of signing players", whereas it does say that's what Wise's role was. No it doesn't, if we're going to get into pedantry. It says Wise will 'assist the board' and that Keegan will be in charge of all matters relating to the first team. I think signing first team players comes into that category. Call me crazy. "With Kevin able to devote his efforts to developing and running the first team squad, Dennis, Tony and Jeff will each help us to secure success for Newcastle United Football Club at all levels and for the long-term" ie. keegan manages the team only. "devote" - 1. To give or apply (one's time, attention, or self) entirely to a particular activity, pursuit, cause, or person. Could mean he can devote his time to the first team because he doesn't have to do negotiations, not that he doesn't decide which players we sign. Have to say midds has a point most of that is ambigious, but all we need to do is look at Wise's comments for clarification on the party line at the time. His comments certainly aren't ambigious and clear up how we were supposed to believe the system would work.

That's not definitive in the slightest, assist could mean anything. But why argue when I can just let Mr Wise himself tell you: "A lot of people have got a little mixed up with the reason I'm here and we need to straighten that out quite quickly. "I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him. "He will say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will be run past him and he'll say yes or no." Looks like Wise agrees with my selective reading.

Keegan didnt know everything about Wise's role but how do we know Kevin wasnt told "that whatever Dennis does, he is completely under your control and he isnt in any way a threat to you" or perhaps "Dennis role doesnt infringe on the 1st team at all" ? If that was the case he would have no need to be anything other than happy and he certainly wouldnt be contradicting the Allardyce comparison. Your as guilty of making assumptions as anyone else. "Dennis will assist the Board on football-related matters, including the development of the Club's Academy and player recruitment. He will report to the Chairman. Tony and Jeff will also assist in player recruitment. The arrival of these three new recruits follows on from the recent appointment of Kevin Keegan as manager. Kevin will be responsible for all matters related to the First Team." "With Kevin able to devote his efforts to developing and running the first team squad, Dennis, Tony and Jeff will each help us to secure success for Newcastle United Football Club at all levels and for the long-term" http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html pretty clear imo. How do first team transfers not relate to the first team then? Sorry but to me those comments are pretty clearly saying that Keegan makes all final decisions relating to the first team which would include transfers and that Wise merely helps to finalise the deals. Wise himself said something similar around the same time.

keegan has also done that just as much. When, where? Nobody is truthful all the time, but I don't remember him contradicting himself on such a big issue. I mean he obviously said he was in control of transfers and then said he left because he felt he couldn't manage without full control. But that could point towards a policy change or interfering from the board late in the window. Of course it might not be that but its not conclusive unlike the comments from the board room. "On Monday, Keegan said he was "reluctant to tell all I know because I really do not know everything" about Wise's role but insisted he was "very happy" with the situation. However, Keegan's comments seem to contradict the opinion he gave to BBC One's Inside Sport last October, when he said he felt that kind of structure is unworkable. When Keegan was asked about reports linking him with a return to Newcastle as director of football under then-manager Sam Allardyce, he said: "It's absolutely impossible to give Sam a job at Newcastle and then go and fetch someone who is going to be some sort of threat, it doesn't work. "Sam would be a fool to let it happen and the guy who goes in would be a fool to accept it. "The chairman, who is not a fool, would be a fool to go and do it, too. It doesn't work." see sig for a few more Keegan saying he was happy with the situation at the time doesn't neccesarily contradict what he said about Directors of Football. He may have been told that Wise's title was little more then a title and he was not going to be in overall control of Footballing matters. He may not have been of course but the point its not a direct contradiction and certainly can't be called lies. What is a direct contradiction is saying that Keegan is in full control of first team including transfers and then later saying he was never in control of transfers.

keegan has also done that just as much. When, where? Nobody is truthful all the time, but I don't remember him contradicting himself on such a big issue. I mean he obviously said he was in control of transfers and then said he left because he felt he couldn't manage without full control. But that could point towards a policy change or interfering from the board late in the window. Of course it might not be that but its not conclusive unlike the comments from the board room.

Now who's making assumptions? We don't know if Keegan has lied at all or if he did then to what extent. After all if the goal posts were moved then he may not have been lying at all. He might never have been told he was in full control and he may have backed the boards words because he was promised certain transfers, who knows this is just guess work now. We do however know that the likes of Wise and Ashley have lied big time, because they were stupid enough to contradict there own words earlier in the year.

No we also have various members of the board room contradicting themselves/each other on what Keegan's position was at the club Which means they either lied about his position in the first place or moved the goal posts. It seems some people have incredibly short memories if this kind of thing is being forgotten already

Now? Yeah. We've all sat and stated the blatently obvious " If we don't invest we really may/will get relegated" You hope he realises this and says right i'll invest and lower my price or take it from his profits. Hes supposed to be a businessman even though he came into his money he didn't earn it. f he thinks, he can suvive with jk, and spending nowt, then thats what he will try and do,...it will be a close run thing with relegation, if thats his plan,.... rule nothing out, these days. Why take the chance. If we go down we have to sell players buy players to get us up it puts us back 3 years. he will take the chance, cos hes given up on us, i wouldnt be surprised, if we only get frees or loans in jan, or bargain basement deals. It doesn't matter if he's given up on the whole owning a Football club idea, he certainly won't have given up on the £233 million he's got invested in it. He'd have to be an absolute moron to risk losing it all which he will pretty much if we go down.

At the very least the money we got for Milner covered the the money we'd spent on players that summer. At best we tried to bring a player in with that money but it fell through. Either way we didn't profit on players, we broke even which is what we'll do in January if Ashley's still around.

I'm sure if we got an offer similar to what happened with Milner then we'd take it and use that money to try to bring players in, as I said selling to buy is quite likely. Selling for the sake of it isn't.

Should change the title to "Joke Thread"

I don't trust him at all. If he could sell off players to make himself some extra cash without reducing the sale price or risking everything he's put into the club then I definitely wouldn't put it past him to do just that. Lucky for us he can't.

Selling to buy is a case of a manager or director of Football or whatever selling players he doesn't want in order to bring in players he thinks are better. That's fair enough but that's not what Skirge was saying. He was talking about Ashley accepting any offer that comes in for any of our players in order to cash in. Which doesn't make sense at the best of times, let alone a time when the club is for sale and threatened with relegation.

Funny, but seriously, why do you agree with it? How does selling players for cash help Mike Ashley? Any player sold reduces the value of his asset at least as much as the cash brought in if not more and the more players sold the bigger the chance his asset goes completely down the toilet of relegation. Which would effectively lose him hundreds of millions of pounds. I'm not saying I think Mike Ashley loves Newcastle United and wouldn't want to make money at our expense if possible. But what Skirge is suggesting won't really make him any money and the risk to his asset is huge.

I don't see what's so wrong about his post. How about it makes absolutely no sense.

Probably about £250,000, about 20% of our total wage bill being spent on utterly useless players, and its not as if they're the only ones

This is what I was talking about earlier, the irrational idea that Ashley wants to cash in by selling players. That won't make him any money long term and will only risk losing him hundreds of millions more. So unless you think the man wants to lose money why would he do it?

Why would he want to do that? What's his motivation.. please explain. Personally I think this is irrational scare mongering.

Kinnear has come out and said that we'll pretty much have to sell players before we can buy. Although if no sale of the club is imminent and there is someone Kinnear wants, Ashley may give him a bit of money. He's gone on record as saying that "Dennis has also been given the task of removing some of the players that I feel are not good enough for the club". http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7744828.stm I don't think anyone would rationally believe that is what Ashley wants or will do. Fair enough, its safe to assume that the likes of Owen and Given and most other first team players don't fall into that category though. Just find it strange when people say they think we'll sell the likes of Given, Martins, Owen ect if a good offer comes in

Not just that, it'd probably knock twice that much off the value of the club if he left.

We're not going to sell first team players like Given and Owen, not unless they expressly ask to leave, that's if anyone goes at all. What is this 'we're going to sell everyone' panic based on anyway? Don't tell me there's a single person here who thinks that Ashley's stupid enough to believe he can loot the club before its sold to make extra cash?

Yeah whatever. Definitely didn't expect a draw but at least I wasn't one of the "thashing is inevitable" doom mongers