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Certainly could have been, but amazingly we just about got away with it. Mike Ashley covering our debts so we only sold players most of us were already wanting chucked played it's part (no embarrassing, symbolic departures like Alan Smith (of Leeds to Man Utd I mean...)), as did the third highest attendance in the country, Hughton managing a press black out after Carroll broke Taylor's jaw etc. Partly good luck, partly good sense. Altogether though, I'd definitely say we were given more popular credit by the 10th game of this season than we were in the 30th of 08/09, though, which was my point.* My second point, though, is that nevertheless the Carroll sale struck a chord with people, not just our supporters, but our players, other clubs and the like, that hadn't been struck for 20 odd years. *Edit: Actually, no it wasn't, it was about when Ashley took over. I stand by my essential argument, though. Somehow or other, during our year in Division 2 we managed to cleanse ourselves of our latter Shepherd/Hall year sins like dragging a tearful Michael Owen out in front of a mentally handicapped crowd. We came back with a refreshed reputation, and having still managed to retain a lot of our good bits. Then I think we spoilt it again by returning to old and even older habits.

Laughing stock I'll give you. But they also see us as less important (perhaps there's some relation in there).

We were ahead before we sacked Hughton, we've been behind since we sold Carroll. What a convenient and self serving way of measuring our position. Let me try, we were behind before we sacked Hughton and we are now ahead after we appointed Pardew, bought HBA and gave Tiote a new contract. This is fun! I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were consolidating our reputation as a stable, sensible club where players can concentrate on improving their games when we swapped Hughton for Pardew, and I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were heading upward to our traditional position in natural order of things as a leading club when we sealed the second Tiote contract in 6 months, but ok.

We're going to have to clear up which status we're talking about... I was running with 'popular Anglicized perception', myself. Admittedly some people/places won't even now know who Carroll is, but then they didn't even know we used to sell on people like Waddle and Gascoigne, so we hadn't risen much over the prior couple of decades in their eyes. Still think there are more tremors following it which will see them learn, as I of course expect more Carroll-style departures from the club. It's a hard stigma to break.

We were ahead before we sacked Hughton, we've been behind since we sold Carroll.

I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that by not challenging these publications on twitter, he makes it easier for the story to become 'accepted as' common knowledge, undermining the purpose of the original injunction, and making it more likely to be retracted or successfully challenged should any bigger media source choose to flout it themselves (on the grounds that there was no secret to expose). I remember a couple of years back hearing that an injunction was granted for some story or other and subsequently retracted partly because the scale of the public discussion surrounding the (non-super)injunction meant everyone had learned the story and it had itself become worthless and inappropriate to maintain. The courts don't exist to 'reprivatise' knowledge.

What you say there can sound reasonable, like a measured threat. What traditionally happens, though, is some people claim that takeovers only happen during transfer windows, that we can't force him out of the club, and pitchfork holders will just embarrass the city with their beaucoups. You're then instructed to just cling on to the few good things that did happen + unfounded claims and comments regarding ambition and ex-servants being bastards or holding us back, and the cycle starts again, with more waiting and hoping about the next window (don't want to disturb the lads' morale after all, going on the contract negotiations a lot of them are already rattled enough as it is...).

Won't pretend I'm an expert on him, but I can imagine he has the potential to be an excellent full back and only a good outright winger. Fwiw, I'm tempted to say full backs are a more important part of a good team, so it's not a demotion in my mind.

No he didn't! As I said a few weeks ago, he only stayed because no one would take him. Fair enough, he was amazing and has been for about 20 months but that doesn't mean he wanted to stay, just no one would have him. If he wants to fuck off let him, ungrateful spic. Club doesn't revolve around a left back,man. Even if he is a class one. My vote goes to PVA. Prophet, I'd say it's more than barely anyone, and I think the number will grow in time, but all the same he's been a very big and positive part of this club for years - and could have been even more so - for me so I still think the point should be made to anyone who's started knocking that. It's a tradition thing, club loyalty and such - history shouldn't be rewritten. It's like sticking up for Hughton when people start rewriting history about his management, too - nothing to do with Ashley, just doing the right thing and putting in a word for a good servant to my club who's being denigrated. Enrique has had some of his BEST games for us since January, whereas a number say he's been a good bit worse ever since he had his head turned and clearly was less bothered about us. Others have started saying he only became particularly good last year in Division 2 in the first place. Bollocks, I say.

Yes, but not as much as next January, or the summer after. Ya coz that's what everyone is saying A hardy group will in time... just trying to help other people not to fall into that trap.

We could try listening to what Enrique has to say if he actually said anything. He said he'd negotiate when were mathematically safe...guess he lied.

Yes, but not as much as next January, or the summer after.

If you try not completely believing everything Pardew, Llambias and 'club sources' say, Enrique looks like less of an arsehole.

Every club from around 2nd down, this year.

Always had Arsenal at home down as a dodgy game, myself. Maybe the romantic in me is dead or something but the comeback didn't wipe out what had already happened for me - I expect us to do something like what happened in the second half when we're in those situations, whereas the first half was an unacceptable embarrassment. Anything less than a close run end to the game would have been potentially sack worthy. That said, as I always have, I recognise Pardew himself was working in difficult circumstances at the time. He's played his hand here pretty well by his standards.

I disagree about this, I think indecisiveness has never been a problem for Ashley. I've taken most of his disastrous actions as being born of his boldness - claiming until medical science made it impossible that Joe Kinnear was the right choice and that he was sticking by him, for example. Chucking Allardyce out of the blue and appointing Keegan even more out of the blue was another. He portrayed those and many other things as being active and constant choices as opposed to situations that he was just thrust into and didn't know whether to change.

TBF Man U should follow their example and get rid Ferguson for giving Owen a contract, and Arsenal should have got rid of Wenger last year after he took Campbell on too. Pathetic dig at Hughton from Llambias the mysterious Mr C Source. Of course with all the other signings Hughton had no say, but that one, that shit one, that was all his. Similar to when Keegan left, and all the "good" players signed were Wise's signings and all the shit ones (and stupid alleged targets) were Keegan's in spite of what was said by the players themselves. The sad thing is some will just swallow this whole. Mad isn't it. Not talking about the overall management of the club, that's for another time, but how some can say the statements of Llambias et al must carry equal weight to the statements/actions of various others if there isn't any other decisive evidence, I'll never know.

Indeed. Funny how his wage seems to have doubled.

Part of the sting is taken off the fact that this year he gets a PL medal and gets to sit in the dressing room/stands of a Champions League final. I reckon it must be part of what's doing him in. Even he can't truly pretend to himself that England's old 'young hope' doesn't look like that impostor who snuck in the 1999 team photo. He wants to feel like a real man but this is going to nag at him for the rest of his life if he doesn't stop pretending it's a fraud. With any luck

Aye... things so good don't normally happen though.

Is this account real? I can't quite believe he's fucking cracking up so perfectly. He's gonna get a twitch in his eye next.

Me neither, which is why I definitely don't want him coming here any time soon. That said, I was pleasantly surprised by his time here. Most of my prejudice against him stems from everything he's ever said and done before and after that time, but during it he seemed pretty bold in ripping up plans that were going wrong, which surprised me - didn't show Owen unwarranted loyalty, experimented with tactics. He seemed to be making more right moves than I expected - if he'd kept that rate up and been given a handful more games to work with I think he would have kept us up, at least. Some people have extremely short memories. He dropped him didn't he? It was Hughton that originally dropped Owen, and Shearer re-instated him the minute he took over. After a few games, he realised his mistake and dropped him again. In fairness, I think it was a genuine error of judgement about Owen's contribution. It wasn't about being loyal to a mate. and he rectified it, which was the bit I appreciated.

Me neither, which is why I definitely don't want him coming here any time soon. That said, I was pleasantly surprised by his time here. Most of my prejudice against him stems from everything he's ever said and done before and after that time, but during it he seemed pretty bold in ripping up plans that were going wrong, which surprised me - didn't show Owen unwarranted loyalty, experimented with tactics. He seemed to be making more right moves than I expected - if he'd kept that rate up and been given a handful more games to work with I think he would have kept us up, at least.

Funny how his performances have gone downhill since the first half of the season... Almost like we're not being as well organised defensively as we used to be and the less naturally talented players are slipping as a result.