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Basically in the long run he might just be a decent winger whereas he could be a very good wing back. I assume you've realised you got Beardsley wrong about the back to goal stuff, that he was on about controlling it in in an offensive sense (laying it off/creating space for himself etc.).

Aye, the 'poor, suffering fans' thing is OTT. But it always interests me as to how many people on here say that they'd be more than happy if we were at the level Arsenal are at. Which I feel is a pile of rubbish. Right now, as an average, mid-table team, of course we'd be glad to be where we are. But, if we'd been up there for nigh-on 15 years, and we were slipping away slowly as our manager was too stubborn to spend cash on a few established players for a few big bucks, would we really be happy? Did we not have quite a few fans who got on the manager and team's back because we went from finishing 4th to 5th near the end of Sir Bobby's stint? If Wenger pulls it out of the bag and re-builds the team with the Fabregas and Nasri money then fair play.But I, myself, can't grumble at Arsenal fans who are starting to show a bit of discontent as they watch their club seemingly slip away from the top dogs of the PL. Wholeheartedly agree.

I think this wages stuff is a poor excuse. Management's about cutting your cloth accordingly, and excellent team/squad players can be found for sums far lower than Arsenal can offer - as we've proven, frankly. If the story is as it stands for the sake of argument, Wenger's just upset he can't buy his way to an even bigger set of flat-track bullies to make up for his inadequate man-handling/tactical abilities. I'm in the camp that think he's lost the plot and should have moved elsewhere for his own sake a long time ago. One of the ironies of it all is that performance they put in against Barcelona - a one off tie for high stakes and he shut up shop and acted just like all the teams he's previously dismissed as being against football's spirit, and squandered a decade's worth of preaching in the process.

From .com Interesting point, actually. A club owner has tacitly come out in favour of standing in seated areas. Interesting, I wonder if that will help the people who are campaigning for safe standing? Pointless, but still worth dragging up when the next battles take place over people standing in the Gallowgate.

Did they surround the referee though? The melee was going on for about ten seconds before the referee even noticed it was happening. I assume that'll be Newcastle's defence. The fine is usually £10,000 though, it's nothing to get worried about. Sounds like something to get worried about to me, he'll probably use that to justify flogging Coloccini.

Shut up man I can't see any other realistic explanation. The idea they're putting down a firm marker to start the season off doesn't really add up just because the idea our players weren't under control is so provably laughable - it's a trumped up charge. Charging both clubs just to get at Barton? Can't see it tbh I believe their is a 'Barton tax' on a lot that he does on the pitch but I think this would be a bit far. I can, there's a section of the footballing hierarchy that is demented and, re: Barton, would happily ban him from the game altogether if they could. I was laughing at the idea of them trying to get Arsenal off the charges and put them on us, given all the video evidence is in our favour, but sure enough they've found a way to give us a whack. That all said, Aphrodite makes an interesting point and that would put a different spin on things.

Shut up man I can't see any other realistic explanation. The idea they're putting down a firm marker to start the season off doesn't really add up just because the idea our players weren't under control is so provably laughable - it's a trumped up charge.

Pushing it, to be fair...

Not taking the piss in the slightest - would Mavis like to swap seats with one of the front row standers in her section? No big deal for either surely.

Pow

Still waiting on that list of 'Ashley apologists' btw. I'll assume you can't recall any. Next time you see a quote that suggests blind loyalty to the regime I'd appreciate it if you sent it to me in a PM, surely I won't be waiting long if the unrelenting support of Ashley and Llambias is so widespread. Anything Baggio posts for a kick off. Ian W technically, in as far as he'll try very hard to find a 'rational', 'nice' explanation on every single occasion something indefensible takes place, and then try to believe it in the name of optimism. OzzieMandias bobshed johnson293 apparently? I'm sure there are some others... there have been some recent converts, though. oldtype, for example. Stu's going through a bit of a crisis in faith last time I checked too. Further to this, I want to state the point that just because someone couches all their beliefs in pseudo-analytical terms - offering plenty of ifs, buts and ever-shifting conditions - it doesn't mean these aren't just attempts to camouflage a desire to blindly back one side over another, consciously or otherwise - so a lack of posts declaring a never ending loyalty to Llambias is irrelevant. The fact is plenty of people have changed their positions at some time or other over this issue, but a certain - increasingly exposed - hardcore don't and show no sign of doing so. And yes, 'this is just an unproveable statement that counts just as much for the Ashley haters'. Boo hoo. Pretending you believe and argue for nothing until/unless its 'proven' is intellectually cowardly and/or disingenuous.

Ignoring the more precise points about Souness and Ranger, this is news??

Contrary to my last post in this thread i kinda enjoyed the ruthlessness on that occasion. He was far from good enough and told to sling his hook; a message to the rest of the squad. Not replacing him was the cardinal error. A completely unhelpful message abjectly delivered.

I don't know for sure if you're talking to me, I don't understand some of it, and I don't know the relevancy of most of the rest of it. It's not got a single thing to do with what I've said so far, but I don't see why the rule of thumb 'small people get shit on' has suddenly become morality. So you're a monkey at work who isn't really valued, so fuck? Doesn't make it right, just true. It's not even always true for those who are high enough up in the chain of life, anyway. Barton's not a minimum wage cleaner blowing the whistle on malpractice in a hospital man, he's a multi-millionaire footballer spitting his dummy out because him and his mate aren't getting the deals they want. I think drawing conclusions about modern morality is taking it a bit too far! I'm not, other people are. Apparently his boss isn't going to like him doing this and that makes him a bad man. And I disagree about the simple deals explanation.

I don't know for sure if you're talking to me, I don't understand some of it, and I don't know the relevancy of most of the rest of it. It's not got a single thing to do with what I've said so far, but I don't see why the rule of thumb 'small people get shit on' has suddenly become morality. So you're a monkey at work who isn't really valued, so fuck? Doesn't make it right, just true. It's not even always true for those who are high enough up in the chain of life, anyway.

Come on man Wullie. As far as the national press, etc. were concerned, upto now this was simply "Nolan having medical with West Ham". Now all of a sudden, Sky Sports News are reporting "Barton, Jose Enrique & Jonas next" on the back of one sentence. The man is thick as mince. Who gives a f*** what Sky Sports are reporting? You know what it's based on, ergo you know it's meaningless. It's based on a moment of stupidity from Joey Barton. He doesn't say that, nowt's made of it. ...And Ashley's position at the club only becomes stronger and more profitable. This stupid idea that if we just promise to quietly give him more money for as long as he's here, he'll go away quicker instead of hanging on for more, Jesus... Last I saw... IN Cabaye OUT Nolan with bids and interest in some players to improve the squad (Gameiro, Erdinc, Ba, etc). Right, so I take it you're happy enough for him to keep running things here given his record. I'm not, and lots of people claim to agree with me.

Come on man Wullie. As far as the national press, etc. were concerned, upto now this was simply "Nolan having medical with West Ham". Now all of a sudden, Sky Sports News are reporting "Barton, Jose Enrique & Jonas next" on the back of one sentence. The man is thick as mince. Patently what was intended, so he's not thick.. Eh? Of course, what the club wanted was to have more attention brought on to them. You what? You called Barton thick.

Disagree. Most companies (particularly football clubs) would seem totally chaotic if every discussion and possible future plan was broadcast to the world by disgruntled employees. Barton isn't calling a spade a spade, he's assuming the worst based on his emotional attachment to Nolan and because he's pissed off at them both not being offered new deals. Why do you assume he's making an assumption based on bollocks, seeing as he works alongside all the people concerned and you don't?

Come on man Wullie. As far as the national press, etc. were concerned, upto now this was simply "Nolan having medical with West Ham". Now all of a sudden, Sky Sports News are reporting "Barton, Jose Enrique & Jonas next" on the back of one sentence. The man is thick as mince. Who gives a f*** what Sky Sports are reporting? You know what it's based on, ergo you know it's meaningless. It's based on a moment of stupidity from Joey Barton. He doesn't say that, nowt's made of it. ...And Ashley's position at the club only becomes stronger and more profitable. This stupid idea that if we just promise to quietly give him more money for as long as he's here, he'll go away quicker instead of hanging on for more, Jesus...

Come on man Wullie. As far as the national press, etc. were concerned, upto now this was simply "Nolan having medical with West Ham". Now all of a sudden, Sky Sports News are reporting "Barton, Jose Enrique & Jonas next" on the back of one sentence. The man is thick as mince. Patently what was intended, so he's not thick..

It's as good as a written transfer request in my eyes. In the sense that it's what'll happen, or that you'll blame him for it? On the one hand Enrique gets blamed for not speaking out and people say it proves Pardew et al are telling pure unspun truth, on the other Barton will be castigated for rocking the boat and making it impossible to stay here... If the players aren't man enough to stay and aren't proud enough to play for Newcastle United because KEVIN NOLAN...yes, Kevin Nolan...not Shearer, Beckham, Zidane, etc. has left, they can fuck off. Eh? That doesn't make sense, he's not said he's leaving over this - just predicted that he and the Latins will be given their marching orders soon too. What I was asking is whether you think him doing that means he can be given the blame when/if he gets those marching orders. Reckon I can make a decent guess on your answer now like...

It's as good as a written transfer request in my eyes. In the sense that it's what'll happen, or that you'll blame him for it? On the one hand Enrique gets blamed for not speaking out and people say it proves Pardew et al are telling pure unspun truth, on the other Barton will be castigated for rocking the boat and making it impossible to stay here...

And from the Chron - “There was talk of Liverpool and Arsenal, but Newcastle were the club who made the move for me, and I really like Alan Pardew’s strategy and how he told me he wants to play. “I heard of other interest, but I didn’t hesitate for one second to join Newcastle because they have an ambitious project.” Good to see Pardew selling the club well. Fair play on that one Glad to hear he's had some significant role in the signing.

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I'll happily give you that one, although I'm not sure who doesn't. As for home games, he got 3 wins in 10 matches (I totally disagree re: Liverpool), compared to Hughton's 2 in 8. I don't see how long throw Stoke, our Derby against Sunderland, runners up Chelsea and Allardyce's Blackburn have become so much easier a set of games than Tottenham bottlers, Arsenal who we'd already beaten, bottom-placed West Ham and Bolton. Again, bearing in mind he had 25% more games than Hughton at home, it's pretty similar for me. The standard of home fixtures were not similar at all. Comparing the likes of Blackburn and Stoke to Spurs and Arsenal, I mean come on now... I'd rather match up Chelsea with Arsenal, Sunderland with Tottenham (esp. given the significance of the game). I also consider Stoke a shit of a fixture.