Rich

What a free-kick that was, cracking header. Best I've felt watching football for ages!

££££££

Jimmy misses a decent chance! Oh dear.

1-0 Cardiff! Howay!

Aye, but you spell impossible "immposible". So I think that's fair enough.

More good points KaKa. I've been a critic of Martins in the past, more out of frustration than anything, but I've always maintained that I hoped he would prove me wrong.

Erm... Tony Adams?? Complete plug off the field, by all accounts. Absolute beast on it. Lead the Arsenal backline for years? Captained England? Great player yes, but intelligent? And mentioned in the same breath as Pedro, Zola and Sheringham? Intelligent on the field, surely? I was trying to get a broader range into the examples really, so that mms75 couldn't just say "well they're all attackers..." And also to highlight the different facets of intelligence on the football pitch, depending which position players are in. On the field, as a defender, Tony Adams was as intelligent as they come, sort of like Woodgate is today, but off the field you'd be forgiven for thinking they were a can or two short of a six pack.

You've completely missed the point, as tends to be your way. The people debating the intelligence bit seem to be in complete agreement that Martins should be playing, possibly even as the first striker on the teamsheet. Nobody is currently using it as an argument of picking Owen over Martins, unless I've missed something? So what exactly are you going on about? The issue that myself and others have taken issue with is the fact that some people are claiming that Martins, while being the African Superman in his spare time, is an "intelligent" footballer. Which I assume to mean that he's got good decision making, good positioning, makes good runs off the ball and generally works in the interests of the team. I perceive the truth as being the same as what you've just posted, for the most part, about him being someone who will be frustrating, but who could still be more valuable to the side than anyone else. Read the posts before going off on one, man. Very irritating attitude some people have towards the guy. People will say Owen needs a partner with more strength and pace beside him because he is so pathetic in these areas, but won't say Martins needs a partner with more awareness and creativity to help get the most out of him. that last part is a very, very good point... I was going to say the same thing, that last bit makes a lot of sense.

Erm... Tony Adams?? Complete plug off the field, by all accounts. Absolute beast on it. Lead the Arsenal backline for years? Captained England?

Didn't Bobby Robson say the worst trainer he ever had was Romario? He was no Alan Smith like. nup he was a natural goalscorer, instinctive if you will I do admire your fight, it must be said.

what the fuck are you talking about? if intelligence was a factor we'd have more of the players you mention, the fact it's down to instinct is explained by the fact there are so few great players same in any sport, natural ability is what counts...some players can improve with training more than other some don't improve at all Great reply mate, the one of a beaten man.

You've completely missed the point, as tends to be your way. The people debating the intelligence bit seem to be in complete agreement that Martins should be playing, possibly even as the first striker on the teamsheet. Nobody is currently using it as an argument of picking Owen over Martins, unless I've missed something? So what exactly are you going on about? The issue that myself and others have taken issue with is the fact that some people are claiming that Martins, while being the African Superman in his spare time, is an "intelligent" footballer. Which I assume to mean that he's got good decision making, good positioning, makes good runs off the ball and generally works in the interests of the team. I perceive the truth as being the same as what you've just posted, for the most part, about him being someone who will be frustrating, but who could still be more valuable to the side than anyone else. Read the posts before going off on one, man.

Can you honestly say you've seen enough of Zamblera, Tozer, Kadar etc to justify this "team" of yours. And the fact you've got Tozer and Kadar's positions wrong says it all tbh. Tozer is a CB and Kadar is a LB, in fairness to him. Martins as a right midfielder, however... I thought Kadar was a CB and Tozer LB? far too early in their careers to say either is a full back or centre half. defensive players fair enough but to pigeon hole kids that early can prove detrimental to the player. HTT has hacked the madras account.

Aye, I was going to mention something along those lines. He seems a bit of a spastic... but then again he's a young lad about our age, isn't he? Should he be any different just because he's a footballer? Janitor in 'I'm a spastic' shock confession! Not telling anybody anything they didn't already know, to be fair.

Don't agree with any of that. If it was right, there would have been far more Peter Beardsleys, Teddy Sheringhams, Tony Adams and Gianfranco Zolas around - just to name a few. The fact that those types of players are considered so special when they are around blows your argument out of the water, you simply cannot teach the sort of brilliance those men had. It's mostly innate and it obviously can be tuned and improved, but I think they are born with it. Obafemi Martins is special physically. He is one of the fastest players in the game, he will also be up there in terms of agility and jumping and all of that. That is where his strength is, this is again something that you cannot coach into players. You cannot coach players to be quick, or to have an exceptional leap, there is a lot of football that is pure genetics. I'm not sure how you can take such a simplistic approach to it all. Football goes far deeper than coaching. And it's not just a player's receptiveness to training either, I bet some of the world's greatest players have been the worst trainers in the world or the players who hated training the most, because they felt they didn't need it as much as your Average Joe did. As for the Makelele/Hargreaves bit... again, how many of those sorts of players are there? Those two you mention play at two of the biggest clubs on the planet and at their peak will be/have been at the pinnacle of their position. Again, if everyone could have their abilities, they wouldn't cost so much. You must see that?

Aye, I was going to mention something along those lines. He seems a bit of a spastic... but then again he's a young lad about our age, isn't he? Should he be any different just because he's a footballer?

The thing I never got with Edgar was last season when he stepped in he never looked out of place in his brief appearances. Yet Hunty and Ramage looked like fishes out of water for most periods, although not in their natural positions. Yet Edgar was shunned and those two both still got played. The latter while doing his hair more times than actually making a tackle on an opposition player. The fact that Edgar captains the reserves now says a lot about him, and I do think he is rated by a lot of people at the club. He did seem to have the potential to make a place in the senior squad his own, but for whatever reason it hasn't quite happened. There will be a reason for it, just one that we're not aware of from the outside looking in.

Hold on we are talking about the championship not premiership. As for Krul I saw many Falkirk games looked mint. Zambrlera I cannot comment Kadar I have seen a few times. Fair enough. I believe in you.

I thought that lately too. Agreed. We seem to be going around in circles with this argument about Smith vs Martins. Or Duff vs Martins, as it was yesterday.

The corn aside, I do hope that we can play our part in helping the team turn things around. I do genuinely believe we can affect what happens on the pitch, especially at St. James'.

I saw Tozer as recently as last Monday, and he didn't look capable of playing in the Premiership yet. I know a lad who plays up front for North Shields, and who recently played against Tozer, saying he was very disappointed with him but thought David Edgar was class. Never mind Big Ben though, what about Zamblera? Kadar? Even Krul?

You don't think it means anything? fundamentally yeah, football moves too fast for intelligence to be a factor if you ask me - there's simply a level of natural reaction to a situation, an ability to see what's around you faster than the opposition or your peers that is not intelligence, it's instinct What about making timed runs? Thinking up imaginative free-kick routines on the spot? Picking the right pass? Leading/controlling a backline as a centre-half? Commanding your defence as a goalkeeper? Instructing your team-mates to make them a better unit? Being positionally sound (no matter where you play on the pitch)? Or adjusting to immediate changes made by the opposition on a set-play, or something of that nature, and effectively nullifying the threat? None of this can be called "intelligence", then?

Reading?! Asking a bit much there, Alex.

Can you honestly say you've seen enough of Zamblera, Tozer, Kadar etc to justify this "team" of yours. And the fact you've got Tozer and Kadar's positions wrong says it all tbh. Tozer is a CB and Kadar is a LB, in fairness to him. Martins as a right midfielder, however... I thought Kadar was a CB and Tozer LB? The fact that you show your clueless says it all. Pipe down Shirley, his original point about your team still stands firm.

Can you honestly say you've seen enough of Zamblera, Tozer, Kadar etc to justify this "team" of yours. And the fact you've got Tozer and Kadar's positions wrong says it all tbh. Tozer is a CB and Kadar is a LB, in fairness to him. Martins as a right midfielder, however... I thought Kadar was a CB and Tozer LB? Tozer is the giant bastard, think he's played mainly CB for the reserves, but he can also play LB. Kadar is less giant and has played mainly LB for the reserves, but can also play CB (and did so with Tozer against Everton last week.) Kadar looked very fast to me in the game, and not the biggest, potentially more suited to playing fullback. Tozer looks too big and awkward on the ball to be considered a fullback. I see.... I just remember hearing when we signed Tozer "Swindon left-back" and for Kadar "Hungarian centre-back." They've both played LB and CB in their careers so far, it's no biggy.