Rich

So you cannot learn to track back, or cover, or take up defensive positions... righto then. I might as well pack in the coaching now if I can't teach people how to do that. I do agree desire plays a big part, but if Laurent Robert can learn to track back (and he fucking did learn to, probably more to our detriment than anything funnily enough) then I'd assume N'Zogbia could. I'd say they'd be some of the most basic things for a player to pick up. Michael Owen is the best example I can come up with for someone who was previously thought to have absolutely no flexibility/defensive attributes, he was merely a fox in the box and couldn't do anything else - now he's the main man, playing in behind the strikers and helping out defensively, closing down, harrying, bringing the ball out of defence. If you'd have told me Owen would be playing the role he is now to this level, while still scoring goals at the start of the season I wouldn't have believed you. If Owen can do that (a player who openly admits he's lazy) then I'd assume N'Zogbia could manage something similar. He would still be the most attacking of the three central midfielders (as Barton is now), the defensive responsibility isn't that great, harrying/pressuring the ball would be the main thing he'd have to do to help the team defend.

The claws are out now like. I was there, you cheeky twat. I was merely commenting on the "disagreeing" bit. Of course they fucking float about man, but Ronaldo/Nanin are still wingers who play in the same areas, Tevez is still the main striker and Rooney still plays off the front man, the central midfielders still play in central midfield. The movement has been fantastic for years man, not just since Christmas - what a comment - but they still play with a formation. Are you telling me Alex Ferguson sends out his front six and says "just play anywhere lads, you'll be reet". He doesn't. They've got their positions, but they've also got a bit of a licence to roam if necessary, which they'll do more when things aren't working out. You'll rarely (if ever) see Ronaldo positioned down the middle from a goal-kick, having swapped with Tevez, will you? They've got their positions and they go from there, it's just that the system is so good it looks so disorganised when they're sweeping forward. I can't be arsed to go digging, but I'm fairly confident that Ferguson and Man Utd have a formation, a system and the players know their roles exactly, the front six don't all have a free role. I've watched them absolutely loads this season, in all competitions, because they play the best football in the league, I'm not basing all this on nowt.

That's only up to March 5th, as well. Everyone else might have been dirty as fook since then, we've only had 3 yellow cards... Clutching at straws?

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want. Apparently it works fairly well for them... They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're f****** brilliant. nah..man utd are fluid throughout the game rergardless of if it's working or not. Being fluid and not having a formation are entirely different things, they certainly don't "play where they want", like. The shape only really changes when they're chasing the game or after a goal, the "fluidity" is merely the movement off the ball more than anything when attacking, isn't it? i'm still disagreeing with you. think of the mauling up here, they had six forward players who'd pop up all over. Well you're wrong again, then

Nah, was even more obscure then. Pretty sure we got in that year because Malaga withdrew from it, and Spain didn't have anyone else who entered, so it went down to the next league with the highest UEFA Cup co-efficient, which was England, so we got in even though Aston Villa were our entrant. Aye, just Googled it, we were in the Fair Play draw that season and didn't get drawn, and you're right about Malaga withdrawing (fucking good memory!), but it was still to do with our Fair Play rating that we got the invite if the Northern Echo was right at the time: Have some of that, Madras.

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want. Apparently it works fairly well for them... They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're f****** brilliant. nah..man utd are fluid throughout the game rergardless of if it's working or not. Being fluid and not having a formation are entirely different things, they certainly don't "play where they want", like. The shape only really changes when they're chasing the game or after a goal, the "fluidity" is merely the movement off the ball more than anything when attacking, isn't it?

That's how we got into the Intertoto when we lost to Troyes in the final, isn't it?

i don't think he has the discipline required defensivly. lots of covering and taking up defensive positions involved where as n'zog,skillful as he is on the ball,his off the ball work is poor. In fairness, I did say he would grow into the position. I wouldn't expect him to be performing to his best immediately. The tracking back and closing down stuff is not hard to learn, it's basically just harrying like Barton/Geremi do - although it would theoretically be far more effective from N'Zogbia because of the pace he would be doing it at. We're still desperate for pace in the middle of the park and it would seem daft to lose a player who has the potential to be very useful either as a left winger or as one of the midfield three.

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want. Apparently it works fairly well for them... They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're fucking brilliant.

The strikers are tracking back though, to be fair, so it still does have some solidity to it. It isn't just a 4-3-3 where the strikers hang about upfield. There have been quite a few occasions where the opposition has been playing it around just inside our half and it's been Viduka, Martins and Owen doing the closing down, rather than the midfielders. I'm amazed with it, to be honest, very surprised it was attempted and even moreso that it has worked.

I've been nursing a semi for about 8 hours.

This formation could be made for him as well, which is a real shame if he does go. If he played where Barton does at the moment, then he's got a lot of freedom and would be floating around on the left and into the centre, I think he'd be far happier there and that he could grow into the position and really master it - he has all the required attributes to play there really. I will be gutted if he goes, and I think he will unfortunately.

The flexibility is the key, as Mick has alluded to. These days, it's all rigidity and one-dimensional from the top to the bottom of the league, only the really good teams excluded (Man Utd are the prime example, with Arsenal close behind.) I can't stand "functional" football, with no freedom for the players, and I believe the Man Utd "way" of playing is far harder to defend against (they have an ever-changing fulcrum and the whole midfield buzzes around all over behind them.) This formation, with better players, could be very exciting indeed.

Should add that I'd be surprised if we only signed 4 players this summer. Methinks it's more lip service from Keegan, aimed at keeping the morale up and making the players feel like he has faith in them. Don't see why he wouldn't have a major clearout, if the funds are provided, he knows the squad isn't big enough by half and he obviously knows a few players simply aren't good enough (see Ameobi leaving for proof of that, with Carr and Ramage hopefully to follow).

Same as me, provided 4-4-2 is still in Keegan's thinking (his main plan)! I have to say this formation we're currently playing excites me though, and could be even better (obviously) with some more mobile players in it. Swap the likes of Viduka, Butt and Geremi for three players with a bit more pace/power/presence and youth and it could look even better. Owen looks rejuvenated, Martins is showing he's good enough and I still think Barton could play his part. I think Viduka is quality when fit, but it's fair to say that we can't rely on him for a full season. He's still a good option to have in the squad though, and will probably still have a huge part to play if he's not required to play every minute of every game. We're still desperate for a quality centre-half. Faye has been incredibly suspect lately and Taylor still flatters to deceive, the goalkeepers and the fullbacks are good enough as it stands (first-team wise). We need a leader in there, and I'm fed up of saying it. Butt and Geremi have been good lately, but they're simply getting on too much and probably shouldn't be automatic choices - much like Viduka, I'd imagine they're good blokes to have around the place. So I suppose if it was a 4-3-3 I'd be after a centre-half, two central midfielders and a target man.

James Weatherup wrote that article. True dat, nowt to do with Beasley.

Said he's not renewing on his way out as well like, so you may be in luck. Thought the booing of the Martins substitution was a fucking disgrace yesterday as well, and I loved how Keegan was vindicated with our second goal. Could have gone the other way like, obviously, but that's what managing is all about.

Bloke next to me shouted "fuck off Keegan" when he took Martins off and left on 77 minutes, with the score at 1-0. Fantastic support.

Do you mean Jeff Vetere who is now our Technical Co-ordinator, he is English and was working for Real Madrid. Andrew Burgess said. "Mention the name of any footballer and he will tell you who he has played for, how many goals he has scored and even what size boots he wears." Yes, that's him. Just found the original article. I remembered reading he had links with Luton Town and was wondering if that was the connection here. Doubtful though as he was just an apprentice at Luton. http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2249017,00.html Then I found this.. http://jlmd.blogspot.com/2008/02/jaccuse-jeff-vetere.html ..which is basically a Hammer fan trying to blame Vetere for the Tevez/Mascerano saga I think. (Check out Dennis Wise in the picture, he's a dwarf! And who is it standing far right?) http://i29.tinypic.com/wtdg5w.jpg Tony Jimenez. Where have you been like??

Fantasy football-tastic.

It was pre-season wasn't it? Against Athletic Bilbao. It was after the 2nd consecutive 11th finish under SBR. I think there were a number of factors - the previous season not being great (we'd stood still and not had a cup run for the first time in a while), the opposition, the timing (people still being on their hols etc.). Laurent Robert made his debut like, which was the main reason I went from what I can remember. It was all a bit naff. 17,500 or so attended, methinks.

Fantastic highlights there. Having a Spurs season ticket these past few years must have been fucking special. Cunts.

More disgraceful officiating in that Spurs match, sort it out man lads. Still, when it all goes against them you won't hear me complain TOO much... hohoho.

Howay man. Ahead of Terry, Vidic, Ferdinand, King, Woodgate, etc.?

Fuck me, another insane red card. Very pissed off by the increasing namby pamby nature of our league, fucking ridiculous. A Wigan win is better than a Bolton win, I suppose, but like others have said a draw is the best result. I can't watch anymore of that shite though, and Spurs has just started now as well. Howay the Man Shitty!