macphisto

Not just Oliver who does it, Lee Ryder also bangs on about Talyor on the videos they do. I would love to get a way from the Geordie/Young English talent agenda they go on about! Just makes them look so cluess when every other team above us in the league, especially the top four are full of foreign players!

Not going to get too bogged down in the debate but could you explain how local people could solve local problems? Any one who had half a brain about them would not be living in these areas now and all that's left is the dross. If they can't look after themselves and their kids then how can they assume responsibility for their whole community? It shows many of these people up for what they are if they are so devastated about the loss of their community because any sane person wouldn't be able to wait to get out these places. Why are they not thinking "great, I'm out of here and can give my kids a better place to grow up in"? Also too easy to blame the council dispersal of communtities as these places have been a dump since at least the mid 1980's. With regards to the woman living on £172 a week for three kids, well she shouldn't have had that many it's HER responsibility. Is it people like her who you think should be charged with managing their own community? Fair enough in some circumstances she may not be to blame but we all know that the vast majority of these mothers are having kids without a thought to the future!

My feelings exactly, tbh. If we can somehow save the next generation of charva kids from following in their parents' footsteps, we could save this country from going to the f****** dogs. My feelings too though I really think the only way to save the kids would be to take them from the parents which would never happen as it would be impossible to do! Sounds way over the top I know but I can't think of any other way to get real change! Also as a society do we need these groups to function? Which many people have argued that we do!

So you basically move the problem on? What an awful way to look at the issue, to disperse people and put them god knows where. You don't work for the council do you? You are right though, regeneration is pretty much all about the money and not the people. Sadly. The communities are far too gone now, I agree, but they weren't like that a few years back until demolishing and dispersal was forced on areas and people by a greedy council wanting to cash in on the property boom, wrapped up in "regeneration", "New Hope", "New Future" soundbites to legitimise their actions. Who for though, young professionals? No I don't work for the council! It might sound like an awful way to look at the situation but from my perspective I think moving the problem on is the only way to deal with it. Put them on the outskirts of the city so they can keep themselves to themselves. No matter how much money is pumped in they will never change so it's a waste of time thinking they will. I also think the idea of giving these people more responsibility would not work as they wouldn't have a clue about what to do! I remember a community centre opening in Walker a while back and the local residents decided to call it "Wor Hoose", what they don't realise is how thick they sound whilst the rest of the city is laughing at them. I know this is one very simplistic example but they really are clueless. To be truthful I'm not too bothered about what happens to them as they've never contributed much to society and are just a drain. One other thing and I can only really talk about the East End, but it's been a dump for a lot longer than the last few years. I would say since the mid 1980's at least.

Read some interesting things in this article but a few things have not been mentioned. For me the dispersal of communities has not been big enough as I would clear out large parts of the East End & West End and send them over to Newburn or any other places on the edge of the city. The communities are far too gone and contribute nothing and essentially live on the past. By the past I mean when the shipyards were thriving and Vickers was big in the West End. I love it when I read about residents protesting against the council doing something in these areas and saying "what a great community spirit they have, great place to live". Let’s face it these places are dumps and they only show themselves up by saying that. This might all sound very harsh but for me that’s the reality of the situation. This would never happen but I also believe if you truly wanted to break the cycle of poverty it would have to involve some drastic measure such as taking the kids away from half the families so that they could grow up with the right values instilled in them. I wouldn’t go down this route as it would be far too problematic to implement but as we can’t do something like this then we just have to live with the fact that these groups exist in society. Build new houses for young professionals/first time families in the areas vacated by the current people. Reason for this being two fold in that it would cut down on commuting times and more importantly create more revenue for the council. That was the whole idea behind "regeneration" "Going for Growth", nothing to do with making places better for existing people but about collecting extra revenue as approximately 200,000 people travel into Newcastle everyday to work and if we could get some of them to live in Newcastle we would collect a lot more council tax. At the moment we have large areas of the city where not a single £ is collected. The last element to growth in our region and by that I mean real growth, is that as a region we have to be a lot more cleverer in our voting. Anyone who knows anything about politics will know that there's no incentive for politicians to do much for the North East as Labour knows they will do well and the Tories know they have no chance! If politicians had to fight for our vote I would guarantee that things like the A1 being upgraded would have been done by now and not just government money but more importantly government policies would have been more beneficial to the North East. For example start up rates for new businesses in the North East is woeful and something should be done about this!

you must be talking about the money he's earned. Which he is hardly likely to turn down and if someone offers it to you, then you take it. Because as regards to him being a fantastic professional, role model, and a great ambassador to English football, you have no case. Haven't got a problem with the money he's earnt and I'll not go into why I think he symbolises a lot that is wrong with football because I don't want to detract from the good work that I see he's done with his academy!

They might charge for adults and I know they charge for summer courses but during the year they allow 10,000 kids to go for free! Mostly made up of local schools but some come from further afield!

For a person who symbolises a lot that is wrong with football that I won't go into, I just wanted to say credit where credit is due! I had a tour around the Beckham Academy in Greenwich and it really is a fantastic place! Two full size pitches indoors and the other facilities are top notch! Something like 10,000 kids go each year for free coaching, classes on healthy eating and so on! Shame these facilities are not spread out more around the country!!!

Seeing as NE5 seems to be absent I will make his point on behalf of him: you don´t get in the top 15 of financial powerhouses in world football by being mismanaged. Now if only it could translate to some decent results on the pitch.. Well from what I can see we have got into the top 15 of football clubs by being mismanaged! I'm not going to get into a debate on this as it's been debated to death but we are where we are due to blind loyalty, socio-economic factors, and geography more than good management! Also being in the richest league in the world helps!

How would Spurs be so far ahead of the Toon? I haven't got a hang up about Spurs like some on here just curious as to how they would have more! Surely league positions and them being in Europe does not account for a £16million difference? Bearing in mind we get a lot bigger crowds. If these figures are accurate then it again highlights how mismanaged the club has been in the past! Though that's hardly a surprise!

Positive for me is that KK and the board will be under no illusion as to what is required in the summer!

I'm not saying Fat Fred would have given him more funds as I don't know that, but in the cold light of day it's not hard to see why we are struggling and that is because we did not invest enough last summer. Allardyce had to sign a whole new defence, three midfielders and also got a forward. £25 million gets you nothing when you need that many players. As he had so little money for what was needed he had to take a chance on foreign players in defence and I can understand why he got Smith to cover a few different areas with the squad being small. I also think he went for Smith and Barton because it would have been asking too much to have people new to the league in both defence and midfield.

Amen to that!

I see your point but then some of them have not that chance under Keegan, playing football. I respect what you say Dave, but I don't think it matters too much as the players are just not good enough. Since finishing 5th under Robson we have just been a mid table team for the last 4 years or so. Seeing that nearly everyone around us spent a lot more than us in the summer time it's no surprise that we are struggling! I don't know if you were alluding to Emre as being a player who should be given a chance to play under Keegan but for me he sums up everything that is wrong about the Toon. He could be managed by any manager in the world and he will never be consistent! Same goes for Shola and who ever else is mentioned. We could all argue who should be in the team but really as I said they are all much of a muchness! What is really sad to see is how short changed our fans have been and out of desperation we have threads like this where people are clutching at straws, deep down we all know that the vast majority of our players are terrible and it would make no difference who was playing!

Read the thread and most of the players are much of a muchness so not really bothered who plays or doesn't play! They have all had their chance this season and haven't done the business! Thing that pleases me is that finally the board and some fans are finally realising we have hardly got any decent players and that big money needs to be spent! What we spent in the summer was a joke when compared to the expectations of the fans and the size of the club! That's why we ended up with Smith because £6 million does not get you much these days when wanting forwards and midfielders. I was also pleased that Keegan did not buy anyone in January as it would not have made much difference as I don't think we'll go down and if we had of added one or two players I don't think we would have made Europe so I couldn't see much point in adding to the squad!

The problem was more to do with the fact that the board did not back Allardyce. The money he had to spend on replacements was not enough together with the fact he had to buy a completely new defence. People can argue who was better, Parker or Barton/Dyer or Smith but at the end of the day they are all roughly at the same level, either inconsistent/injury prone/bad life style choices or just not that good! How many goals have the whole lot scored for Newcastle in their time here? I guess it's no where near enough! You can also throw in Emre and Butt into the same category too. With all these players we've mostly just been an averagee mid table team swapping £4-£6 million pound midfielders every few years and not moving forward!

look at how long it has been since queiroz worked in portugal and after an initial flurry rafa eased on the spaniards (even i could spot torres as a talent. right about wenger and french players but not just french he just has a very good knack of finding talent. you're part right about the advisors as some are like that,as are a lot of ex players who talk s**** about the game and know less that you or me (ever listened to steve claridge ?). agree with you about wise personal decision to move being slightly odd. Doesn't really matter how long someone has been out the country as long as they have contacts there. I imagine queiroz could ring a few people in Portugal, people he knows and find out what is happening any emerging players. . Also imagine if Keegan was working abroad in say Italy, he would have a much better knowledge contacts in the UK compared to his Italian counterparts on emerging players in England. Anway just my thinking on how it works. Also and this is not directed at you, another point I'd make on the role of advisers is how much different is the role the new guys are playing to that of Stretford under Shepard? Is this not just all about repackaging a role and presenting it in another light? Im just very dubious of people who have never played or managed a club being so high up the chain of command! People might think I'm going over the top, but I'm pig sick of saying give people a chance/time! I'm all for that but I'd want them to have a track record to go off. I really think we should be doing much better than we are! I really thought things had changed under the new regime but everything that has happened has just left me feeling really deflated. As I said in my first post, if Ashley had got his way our manager would be Redknapp with Wise thrown in! I just hope that who ever comes in as the No.2 to Keegan has something about him.

so much wrong in that. if we get a DOF (which hasn't been confirmed thats what wise'll be doing yet)fro a foreign country isn't it likely he'll have knowladge of that country alone as thats what you imply about having an english one ? each club on the continent uses DOF's differently,some have more say than others,some the head coach dictates the purchases at some they don't. the advisors who you don't know how they get where they are, a bit like scouts in that even the best are relativly anonymous. my guess is that someone reckons they have sen something in wise that he can bring here in the same way without having the great reputation someone saw something in wenger when he was merely a coach What's so wrong with what I said? The way I see football people is that everyone knows generally about what is going on at the top level in each country but not too much at other levels of the game. So I imagine that Newcastle will know about most players in the top leagues in Europe but not too much below that. So for example if we got a German DOF then he would have expert knowledge of German football and have a whole set of contacts that could be used to our effect. Contacts that we don't have at the club! Look at Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal. All of them take advantage of the foreign element to their football setup. To be honest there would be nothing wrong at getting a DOF who did not know too much about English football as we should have that well and truly covered! It would also bring in fresh ideas. The thing I have against the advisers is that they have no history of knowing about football. That's why you end up with laughable people like Grant at Chelsea and possibly Redknapp getting the Toon job! At least with scouts a lot of them will have been ex players or have dedicated their lives to football! I cannot believe your comparing Wise to Wenger, yes Wenger had to start somewhere and without knowing his history before Monaco I imagine he would have got where he did through his own brilliance and also hard work. He earned the right to be where he is. I couldn't say that about Wise! realistically those clubs mentioned have a better scouting system and players are prepared to bend over to play for them.thats why they get them from all over,not just the home nation of a member of the backroom staff. advisors....the advisors we are talking about vetere, has been involved in football throughout his life and jiminez was instrumental in getting ramos to spurs. yes i'll compare wise to wenger at the appropriate stage of their careers. what i'm driving at is that sometimes someone sees something (imagine telling people 20 years ago what wenger would go on to do ?) and that job works (think keegan telling you barry venison would play central midfield for england when we just signed him) i'm not sure about bringing wise in only because i don't know what his role is ? i have no idea of his capabilities unlike some on here who really should be running the club. Obviously we're not going to agree. You're right about the other clubs having better scouting set ups and getting players from all over the world but if you look at Arsenal they sign a lot of French players, Liverpool Spanish and Man U Portuguese. That's not coincidence, they just have a lot of contacts there who they can trust in those countries! Also good to have these ties to help players settle at the club. We'll also have to disagree on the advisers because as I said they are nothing but hanger ons in my opinion. Just taking all the money out the game. Sure I read on this thread that Jiminez is 33 years old so I wonder how he got to where he is? It also looks like at this point that we'll not be able to compare Wenger and Wise for much longer. One went on to manage top clubs and thrive in the game. Whereas Wise has decided at a young age to quit management at a big club (which Leeds are) and be involved in the management of the club. For me a person who loves football would want to manager at Leeds, make their mark and move on to a better club. We’ll see what he brings in time. With regards to running the football club, can’t comment on the business side of things but with regards to the football decisions I really have not been impressed by the current set up at all, just completely baffled! Maybe they know something I don’t.

so much wrong in that. if we get a DOF (which hasn't been confirmed thats what wise'll be doing yet)fro a foreign country isn't it likely he'll have knowladge of that country alone as thats what you imply about having an english one ? each club on the continent uses DOF's differently,some have more say than others,some the head coach dictates the purchases at some they don't. the advisors who you don't know how they get where they are, a bit like scouts in that even the best are relativly anonymous. my guess is that someone reckons they have sen something in wise that he can bring here in the same way without having the great reputation someone saw something in wenger when he was merely a coach What's so wrong with what I said? The way I see football people is that everyone knows generally about what is going on at the top level in each country but not too much at other levels of the game. So I imagine that Newcastle will know about most players in the top leagues in Europe but not too much below that. So for example if we got a German DOF then he would have expert knowledge of German football and have a whole set of contacts that could be used to our effect. Contacts that we don't have at the club! Look at Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal. All of them take advantage of the foreign element to their football setup. To be honest there would be nothing wrong at getting a DOF who did not know too much about English football as we should have that well and truly covered! It would also bring in fresh ideas. The thing I have against the advisers is that they have no history of knowing about football. That's why you end up with laughable people like Grant at Chelsea and possibly Redknapp getting the Toon job! At least with scouts a lot of them will have been ex players or have dedicated their lives to football! I cannot believe your comparing Wise to Wenger, yes Wenger had to start somewhere and without knowing his history before Monaco I imagine he would have got where he did through his own brilliance and also hard work. He earned the right to be where he is. I couldn't say that about Wise!

No doubt what I'm going to say now might already have been mentioned! Can't believe Wise is coming to the club as he really doesn't offer that much, no tactical input, no great contacts in the game and no proven track record in the game! People might say how do I now that but just look at Leeds, none of their fans are too bothered about him leaving! Also he might have contacts in the game but primarily they will be British based so they will probably almost be the same contacts that Keegan has! Lets face it the pool of talent in the UK is not great and even then what's going is very expensive! Don't know why we did not go for an outsider from outside the UK? With that we'd have someone who had a good knowledge of another country and also would probably be more familiar with the whole system of DOF. They may also have been able to have an input into the tactical side of things, had new ideas. I'm sure Keegan must know people from his days at Hamburg. I know people are praising Ashley and Mort but so far I don't think they could have done much worse in their football decisions. First of all they didn't give Allardyce much money so I'm not really sure what they expected from him. Looking back I really think he was on a loser to nothing. Also and this is a big IF, if it was their idea to get Wise then have a think about it. Their first choice of people to run Newcastle would have been Harry Redknapp and Dennis Wise! beggars belief. One of the reasons I was so pleased that we got Keegan was that I did not have too much faith in them getting any one decent after the Redknapp affair. I know people will say let’s see what happens but I just think we put up with so much crap, it's untrue. Here we are getting 52,000 fans (if we were in the top four we could get a lot more too) and this is what we get! Don’t even have to look at the top four, but look at Spurs and Man City. For my money they have a much better set up than ours in every department, just a crying shame! It looks to me like the only way we will have any success under Keegan and Ashley is if we spend a huge sum of money. Parky mentioned a figure of £100 million a few weeks back and that’s what I really think it will take for us to be where we want to be because so far it looks like our strategy is to get in people who are good motivators and have “passion”. Passion will only get you so far but nowhere near where we ought to be. There's also been mention of the mysterious agents/advisers who have an influence. This al reminds me of the guy at Chelsea who advises Ambramovich, Pinni Zahavi. How these people get where they are, I'll never know!

Is it true he was only selling hot dogs at Aintree before he got the job first time around when Keegan took over as manager?

Ghost written by Oliver??? Don't like the guy but I'd buy it!!

Does anyone else think Oliver's time is up? I know the general consensus is yes, but I mean from the point of view of what happened with Robson, Souness and now Allardyce (not to mention Ferguson having a go at him in the match program). Of course he got along with Roeder and not too hard to see why seeing Oliver led a one man press charge for Roeder to get the job! His name must be complete dirt in football circles! I never really hear other local papers being criticised this way, though in fairness would I hear about it if they were?

Seen a few people mention the weather as a reason for not having the games in the summer! Should be alright for any countries South of Kenya, in fact the world cup in South Africa will be one of coldest tournaments held for a long time! A lot colder than Germany! Obviously couldn't have it in the North African countries as it would be boiling, there is also a belt of countries that might have the rainy season during the summer. All this being the case they should assess each tournamet with regards to the country hosting it and look at the best time of year. I doubt sponsorship would be affected too much!

Good words but lets see what happens! For me personally his whole ownership has been undermined by the events of the last week and he'll have to do a lot to restore my confidence! I know he's sorted things out with the debt and what have you but at the end of the day it's on the pitch where it counts! Somehow though I think things will come good!