macphisto

I don't need some johnny foreigner telling me a local boy playing for his local club living his dream is going to fuk off at the first opportunity to anyone flying higher than us, its pure and utter bollocks. I'm seeing this from a Geordie point of view and when it's about a situation like this it does fuking matter, sorry if the foreign contingent find that hard to swallow, but if you don't understand that then you don't understand why he'd want to stay. Even though you're going on like a bit of a radgepacket, I agree with your sentiments 100%. It would be a dream to play for Newcastle and it would take a hell of a lot to leave if you were a boyhood fan. Although I don't know where you draw the line. If you're supremely talented and Newcastle have been loitering around the Championship for a few years, big offer comes in and the people upstairs are pushing you out the door... you can never say never. But in the current circumstances, I'd absolutely expect Carroll to stay for a few years yet. I'd be off if I was him. Newcastle means a lot to me and I wouldn't be able to put up with the way Ashley is running the club, I also wouldn't respect the manager. Big thing for me would be ambition in respect to the club that came in and Spurs are miles ahead of us. Even if they drop out the CL places I'd be far more confident of them getting in again ahead of us. Look at the managers and players they've had for the last 5 years compared to us.

All this Lawro, Motto, Quinny and other nicknames for presenters on the TV and radio get on my nerves. Just a right load of crap, I actually find it quite offensive how they view this as appealing to the "working class"!

Jonny Hall, are you truly saying Duff and Owen are not Premier League quality? As I said in my first statement, I would get him on loan which would be a good deal but I can't understand why anyone would want to pay for a player who is in decline at the age of 30 (no one in this thread is disputing that he is in decline). He's only going to go get worse and we will be stuck with him in a year or two when it will be a struggle to offload him.

Do you not question why other teams are not in for him? Why are Spurs letting him go when they are now in the Champions League? Related to this, he has not been at his last two clubs for more than a season without them trying to get shot of him. Someone said he's not in decline, well I would say going from Liverpool/Spurs to Celtic/Newcastle (if it happens) gives you an idea that he's not what he used to be. Maybe because he's not good enough for the Champions League? Oh no, he's so not worth it then, with our ambitions for the top four and all And on the nobody else being interested front, this was in the Echo today: Now I know it's a newspaper, but it's just as valid proof as you randomly stating 'nobody else is in for him' with no evidence whatsoever. You do realise you're contradicting your first statement about comparing him to Duff and Owen which you found amusing? The proof will be where he ends up.

Do you not question why other teams are not in for him? Why are Spurs letting him go when they are now in the Champions League? Related to this, he has not been at his last two clubs for more than a season without them trying to get shot of him. Someone said he's not in decline, well I would say going from Liverpool/Spurs to Celtic/Newcastle (if it happens) gives you an idea that he's not what he used to be.

Only be worth it as a loan to give us options for this season because signing Keane would be going down the Smith, Duff, Geremi, Viduka, Owen, etc. route.

I'm pretty sure Man City were bought with about two to three days left of the transfer window and they bought Robinho on the last day. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. As you say it is all opinion and I agree that the team would be far behind the middle table teams but not the bottom teams. I don't think we'll be far behind a cluster of clubs at the bottom, take your pick from Wigan, West Ham, Blackpool, West Brom, etc. It would not take much investment to be clear of that lot. If anything your argument about how poor the team is backs up my theory (I must stress it's just a theory!) because it looks like you think we're certainties for relegation. Why would Ashley take this risk if he wasn't looking to bail out?

How do you know that? I would not be surprised if Newcastle was sold before the window closes. I'm not saying it will happpen but it does explain the lack of activity at the club. Overhead my head why you and Roger Kint found that so funny. I'm not saying it's going to happen but I would not be surprised if it did. I do think that when he does sell the club that it will be over very quickly without rumours in the paper. Going off Ashley's past form, there's two things that most people agree on: 1) He's good at keeping news out of the media (see transfers and how he bought the the club) 2) He's desperate to sell (I don't think anyone thinks the club is really off the market) Trying to sell the club would explain the lack of transfer activity and to a certain extent Houghton still being in charge. Tbh i agree with you and also think they are actively trying to sell the club but we know nowt about it but time will tell ,imho if a bid came in he would be off like a shot as long as he gets his money back = healthier finances and a certain amount of short term investment to hopefully keep us in this division then a long term business plan involving THE FIRST TEAM and not Perch,Best and whoever else comes in same standard players who fatten out the squad but dont improve it drastically . Thanks Biggs, I didn't think my orginal point was too crazy despite what others think!

How do you know that? I would not be surprised if Newcastle was sold before the window closes. I'm not saying it will happpen but it does explain the lack of activity at the club. In answer to your question - I DON'T know that, but there are a number of facts which make me believe that you theory is unsound. 1. Had any person or group, of substance been interested in taking the club over, they would have had it done long before this stage and probably by the end of June. The reason I say this is because they would want to have either their own manager installed OR want to provide Hughton with the funds to guarantee the club's place in the PL...why pay a fortune for something only to see it be worth much less in 9 month's time?? 2. There is no way that such a large transaction would have escaped the media's attention. 3. If there was any likelihood of this happening, Ashley and Co would not have put out that statement about their future plans for the club. They would just have kept quiet. The only thing that has happened in the last week or so which MIGHT give some credibility to your view has been MON's walk-out at Villa - he is one of the few managers that a new and ambitious owner MIGHT be able to persuade to take the job at SJP...and only then because of his fall-out with Lerner. To answer your points above: 1) When did Man City get bought? I think around about now is the ideal time to buy a club because you've got more bargaining power. To be honest there's a lot of dimensions to buying a club at this time that I'm not sure who is in the strongest position, buyer or seller? A potential buyer could let Ashley sweat with the threat of pulling out the deal and him having to spend money in the last few days of the transfer window to ensure Newcastle stay up. To get the price low as a buyer of the club I would be prepared to miss this transfer window as I would be confident enough with the squad we have to be able to safeguard relegation by buying players in January. Ashley on the other hand can play the card of asking for a higher price now to let the new owners have time to buy players/bring in new players. 2) We only knew about Ashley buying the club in the space of a few days, Ashley has proven he can keep big deals secret. Don't forget Ashley likes to keep his business dealings very private. 3) I would not waste your time or my time debating a statment from Ashley as he is a proven liar, his statements mean nothing. I don't think O'Neil has anything to do with it, I understand why you said it but I don't think it has any bearing on the matter. I tend to think the follwing has more to do with the possibility of the club being sold: Ashley desperate to sell Little transfer activity Cheap management structure Loyal/large support base (potential for a lot more) 3rd biggest fully developed stadium Cheapish wage bill

How do you know that? I would not be surprised if Newcastle was sold before the window closes. I'm not saying it will happpen but it does explain the lack of activity at the club. Overhead my head why you and Roger Kint found that so funny. I'm not saying it's going to happen but I would not be surprised if it did. I do think that when he does sell the club that it will be over very quickly without rumours in the paper. Going off Ashley's past form, there's two things that most people agree on: 1) He's good at keeping news out of the media (see transfers and how he bought the the club) 2) He's desperate to sell (I don't think anyone thinks the club is really off the market) Trying to sell the club would explain the lack of transfer activity and to a certain extent Houghton still being in charge.

How do you know that? I would not be surprised if Newcastle was sold before the window closes. I'm not saying it will happpen but it does explain the lack of activity at the club.

Also shows that a fair few people don't realise the effect one insidious prick can have on a club. What, Champions League Football?

Going down with the way things stand, haven't got a lot of confidence in the strikers, midfield and manager, all Championship standard. We need a big, big season from Barton for us to stay up but how likely is that to happen?

I said it earlier, I don't buy this argument. Our group had some very average teams in there who we should have been beating, simple as that. Our failure at this world cup has got much more to do with attidude. We didn't have many foreign players before the Premier League and our record was pretty much the same as now, indeed we didn't qualify in 1974, 1978 and 1994 when there was not that many oversea players in England.

I don't go for the too many foreign players argument being the reason for our failure, for some reason there is a lack of desire to be the “best” in our game. I don’t know if this is to do with the money in the English game, false adulation our players get through sky, media and the fans (for example see how some of our players are now rated after the job they did in the Championship by people on this board!) or the self importance we attach to the English game. If we have players who really thought they were good players but could not get a game in the Premier League then why do they not move abroad instead of playing in the lower leagues? Another example of this is our managers, I know he is not English but I really rate Moyles at Everton. In my opinion he has taken Everton as far as he can and it does not look like he will get a top four job so why does he not try to get a job for a club in another league that plays in the Champions League to test himself, to see how good he is?

Peace and Quiet at SJP for the first time in 50 years? Keegan's first stint as manager was harmonious and I'd also take any year from 1992 to 2004 over this year, I quite liked playing in the top league and European football! Far too many people are getting carried away with this season, it was a very poor league! Time to judge the club is next year!

Roeder had managed before, in the Premier League, and had got the team relegated. He was a proven failure at the highest level. Hughton has taken charge of a few games as Caretaker boss but otherwise hasn't had a chance to prove himself. David Moyes was a journeyman player who started at Preston as player, then player/coach, then Assistant Manager and then Manager. He never got a team promoted to the Premier League and was unproven at the top level. Now look at him. Moyes massively overachieved at Preston and that’s probably one of the things you’re looking for in a manager, somebody who can take poor players and build a good team, or take good players and build a great team. Hughton has taken the best squad in the league and turned them into the best team in the league. He couldn’t have done more but he hasn’t overachieved. He’ll get (and deserves) his opportunity to prove he can do more next season. Hughton might have had the best squad but this squad at the start of the season had no, absolutely no team spirit. With Kinnear in charge we probably would be fighting for a play-off place now. This just highlights the damage that Ashley has done to the club, fans using Kinnear as a barometer for measuring CH! Not having a go at you but it just highlights how far expectations have fallen! Just criminal! People go on about relegation saving money for Ashley by getting rid of the high wage earners, I reckon he'll save much more by the complete lack of ambition amongst the fans. He will not have to spend much now to keep the fans onside, long term he'll be quids in!

My reasons for not wanting CH are: 1) I believe any good/top manager needs a certain amount of arrogance/self-confidence about them. The very fact the CH has been messed around so much by the club shows that he hasn't got that, for CH to see Kinnear appointed ahead of him last season and then stay at the club doesn't say much about CH. Can you think of any other manager or coach with aspirations to become a manager accepting that? Maybe CH didn’t want to be the manager at the time, so I would then think does he really have the hunger to be a manager? Why has it taken him until he is around 50 to suddenly think he’ll make a good manager? If that is the case I would have to question his desire/hunger. 2) I wouldn’t judge any manager off one season in the Championship, not for a club the size of Newcastle. If we are going to get a manager from the lower leagues, then I’d want to see how they do over a period of time, a minimum of two seasons to see how they set their teams up to play, dealings in the transfer market both in and out. One season in the premiership is not enough. 3) How would CH appeal to players? He has neither a track record as a manager or player, I’m not sure how he will attract players. 4)Unknowns: This is the main reason for me not appointing Hughton as there are so many unknowns about him. No one really has a clue how well he will do, a lot of fans think he deserves it but are not sure about how he will do when we go up. It is not good to have this lack of confidence around the club, it just reminds me so much of Souness and Roeder where deep down I believe most people knew they would never work out but gave them the benefit of the doubt for the sake of “stability”.

I think he's done a remarkable job in the CCC, but my personal belief is that he isn't good enough for the PL. Should he get a chance in the Pl? Well, he will and his success will depend on so many things inc luck, it is hard to say with any certainty what is going to happen. But, if it looks like going bad, the quicker he is replaced the better. IMO he should be replaced in the summer if a better manager wants to come and manage us and I'd inc Mark Hughes in that bracket. Fully back up what Parky has said as I don't think CH is up to the job. Not sure where the idea Hughton would be talked up as the next best thing would come from, has he done anything differently from managers like Mick McArthy, Billy Davies and Tony Pullis? I personally think that with the players we have in this league, anything less than promotion would have been very poor. Hope I'm wrong but I think a lot of people on here are getting carried away with how the team and managers ave performed this year in what is a poor league.

Going off what some people are saying, if we have no money to spend then we might get ready for relegation now. Little money and Hughton in charge is only going to result in one thing at the end of the season.

If Ashley showed that he was going to stick with the club, we wouldn't have any trouble attrcting someone like Hodgson to the club. To suggest that Fulham are a bigger club than us is just stupid (don't get me wrong I like the club, going to the next few matches there), they are just not in the same league as us as a club. We'll have to agree to disagree but if we offered managers full control over the football side of things and allowed them to wheel & deal on a modest budget, I have no doubts that we could attract some big managers. I'm not saying this to detract from my main argument, but the whole "he's earned the right", "stability" could be used to say that we don't change any of the players as they deserve a shot at the big time, which would be crazy!

Have you been to Fulham, great little club, fantastic stadium but you are never going to achieve much. Dangle the prospect of managing in front of 52,000 fans and saying he has full control over the football side would tempt him. Any manager with ambition would know that if he had full control of the football side of things at the club and did well that the possibilites are endless. If not him there would be others, I’m sure of that!

Serious I understand the stability argument which is why I’d want someone new in who we could see being here for the long term. I just don’t see that with Hughton. I’m sick and tired of us appointing managers with no strategy in place! Look at the last few managers: Souness (quick appointment, early season) Roeder (only after being caretaker) Allardyce (fair enough a plan was in place) Keegan (after Redknapp turned us down) Hughton (got the job after the shenanigans of Ashley trying to sell the club) Absolutely terrible decisions the lot of them and it’s not hard to see why as the club has never seriously thought about where it wants to go and the best manager to achieve that based on a sound track record. We’ve always just “ended up” with a manager. With regards to Hodgson, the reason I mention that is because I was at Fulham at the weekend and we are a much bigger club in every way and I refuse to believe we could not attract him to Newcastle if we showed that we had a sound ambitious plan in place! If not him then there are other managers out there!

What you wouldn't want Hodgson as manager? I'm being serious there!!

I'm being serious, to answer some of the points I wouldn't say Souness or Strachan had a track record, well not a good one any way. With regards to Allardyce, you can't deny that he did a good job at Bolton for a number of years so at least we had a something to go off. Fair enough it didn't come off but at least there was some sort of rationale for appointing him. So am I right in thinking that if we can't go for Wenger or Ferguson that we have to settle for Hughton? Why don't we look abroad, it really is amazing that the North East has never got a manager direct from overseas, it says a lot about the people who have controlled our clubs. Yes it is a risk getting someone from overseas, but we could go with someone who has a record of building a team and has done well in the transfer market. You cannot judge Hughton on one season in the Championship. If we want to look closer to home, why not go for Roy Hodgson? All I’m saying that we are far too big a club to be settling for someone like Hughton. Do people realise that we’ve had the third highest number of fans through the turnstiles this year and something like 5th highest average attendance? If we are going to base our decisions on a manager's ability to get promoted from the Championship and stay in the Premiership, why not go for Pulis?? Quite rightly that suggestion would be seen as ridiculous, just as appointing Hughton should be viewed the same.