macphisto

Unless you witnessed the Fairs Cup win then I don't see how any of us can answer this question as none of us knows what it is like to win anything! To answer this question all we can do is imagine what it is like to win a trophy! For this reason alone I'm desperate to win a trophy and see what it feels like! Then I’d get back to you about whether I’d want entertaining football or win a trophy the George Graham way!

Everyone has their own opinion but I'm sick of people saying "give him a chance". How many managers do we have to appoint where we start off thinking "give him a chance". The bloke is garbage, he's 60 years old and been managing for what 20 years and the best club he's ever had is Portsmouth/West Ham! Is that the level we're at? What has he won? Has he been in Euope more than once? We've just got rid of a manager who did a better job than Redknapp at a small club with less funds. We can all be selective about signings as you could argue Allardyce bought Speed, Anelka, Diouf and Okocha. All good footballers! This is not to defend Allardyce but he did buy flair players too, who's to say he would not have done that here? Two clubs who in my opinion are smaller than us are Spurs and Man City and look at the managers they have got! We get 50,000 odd fans every home game and take thousands away and we end up with Redknapp! We're much better than that, I can't believe what some people will accept! Just think about our managers since Robson who was the last guy to have a decent CV, we've had Souness, Roeder, Allardyce (I was in favour of him) and now possibly Redknapp. Tell me another club in Europe who gets the crowds we get who have had such average managers?

Just echo what other people have said, I'd be gutted with Redknapp! I'd much rather have Allardyce who I think would do a much better job long term. If this is true then just another nail in the coffin of football for me as you've got people like Redknapp who has done nothing to warrant the Newcastle job and the same with Grant at Chelsea getting jobs simply on the basis of who they know! You then get good managers like Benitez probably getting the boot! Crazy!

Begin again as I got all my quotes mixed up in my last post! Has anyone watched the review video that Oliver and Ryder do of the Stoke match. They spend about half the review going on about Taylor's performance at Stoke, talk about the match and then go back to Taylor and talk about how he should have a new contract! Taylor's got to be the Mole!!!!!! http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/videos-pictures/ United were not happy when The Chronicle revealed in September that Taylor had turned down their offer of a new contract.

Was totally serious. A lot of the tactical chatter on here straight after a game baffles me. I have 6 pints before and after and I'm lucky if I can remember the scorers the next morning (the way football is meant to be watched ). Seems reasonable enough like, but I'd say all the players we have have shown they have some of those qualities in the past. Injury or age might have robbed a few of them, but can't see any reason they collectively couldn't be organised to start utilising their talent as much as they have before. When have any of our players utilised their talents before on a consistent basis?

I agree, rebuilding must start now. Perhaps Allardyce is the one to do that, perhaps not, but youth must be the focus. Once the fundamental structure is laid around viable young talent you can sprinkle in one or two 10m+ players. More Kazenga and less Matty Pattison. I know where you're coming from when you quote starting with young talent but I'm not sure if that's not a recipe for disaster. Fair enough Ferguson did it in around 1996 with Neville, Beckham, Scholes and what have you. But I'm not so sure you could do that now with the game having more money. For example I remember when Leeds was being quoted as the next big thing with their youngsters that got to the semi-finals of the Champions League but they self destructed. Not many of those players have gone on to big things. I also look at our team under Robson with some good young players like Bellamy, Jenas, Dyer who were seen by many as players that would go on to great things. Again they just seemed to self destruct. Could also be argued that Spurs were the last team with a group of young players who were going to go on to great things and look what has happened to them this season. For me I don’t think you can build a team with youngsters anymore as I think if you have too many it becomes too difficult to manage as they get carried away with the glamour and money. I’d say you need to build a team of say 9 core players around 25 and older who would cost us serious money and then buy three young players with good potential. I know it’s a squad game but hope you get my drift! I know people will say look at Arsenal, but that tells me two things, either we have to find another Arsene Wenger and allow the person the time to build the team which I couldn’t see happening here and the other thing is if we do go down the road of building a young team then maybe they have to primarily be foreigners. May be young foreign players have the discipline to cope with the glamour and money that goes with the game today. I also think people are getting it wrong when they say don’t spend a lot of money on “trophy players” and then quoting Luque and Owen. Well give me “trophy players” all day long such as Shearer, Ferdinand, and Albert.

Fair point. ie the money is not showing on the pitch? Essentially I meant that we are starting to be outspent and also the big money we have splashed out has been very poorly spent with no return. Apart from Arsenal, where you have to consider that Wenger started from a much better base than Allardyce which allowed him the time to mould the club, every other team that has been successful has spent money. Just look at our most successful time under Keegan, that only happened because he was allowed to splash the cash, i.e. buying the world’s most expensive defender and breaking the world record for Shearer. Let’s face it, it did not happen because he was a tactical genius or anything! I also don't agree that we couldn't buy some of the top players. Money talks and if you got a top player or two and showed ambition, the rest would follow. Look at Chelsea and what happened when they starting splashing the cash. I even look at some of the players Bayern Munich got in the summer in Toni and Ribery, they are not in the Champions League. Yes they have a good heritage that is much better than ours, but it does show that the Champions League is not everything.

Agree 100% that we need to start spending a lot more money to be where we want to be. You also have to consider that a large amount of our spending has gone on players who have contributed nothing or we didn't get our money back, such as Owen and Luque!

Couldn't agree more, apart from N'zogbia and Given I would happily get rid of any other player.

Ferdinand for me as you don't break up a 50 goal partnership that he had with Shearer in your first season in the Champions League! Madness! He may have been good to watch but he didn't really produce the goods so I'd rather have got rid of Tino instead of Ferdinand. Seems to be a lot rose tinted glassed on with regards to Ginola as after he got sent off against Arsenal he was never the same player again under both Keegan and Kenny. Robert produced a lot more than him in his time here, might not have been as good to watch but he created and scored more.

An awful lot of people suggested he was the Worlds Best Player in 1987/88 - taking over from Maradona. I wouldnt argue with that. He was exceptional. Whether he was better than Kaka? Probably. Talking about the best of the best here, but for my money I would put Maradona over Gullit until about 1990.

Can't deny that it was magical times under Keegan but it just about sums up our club which gets 50,000 plus fans every game to be talking about a manager who had a shed load of money and won nothing! It would be great to harp back to a manager who had won something! I was going to say that it would have been even more interesting if Robson had the same money as Keegan had or if we imagined a younger Robson getting £100 million to spend over the next few years. But then I thought give Keegan his due, by far he's been the best manager with regards to singing players we've had as there was too many bad ones made. Was this down to him being able to shop at the top end of the table or having a good eye for a player?

At the beginning of the season I thought Sam would have got us challenging for the top six. It may still happen, you never know. For me though the big reason why we haven't done well this season is simply because our players are so average and they are now being found out! Even if we had a manager playing the "Newcastle way" we still would not have done much better than what we are doing now. Yes you can say he had money to spend in the summer but we were one of the lowest spenders in the league. Not a big fan of Smith but who else could you get for £6 million who is a consistent quality performer? Yes you can mention Elano but there will always be the exception to the rule. For my mind though you mostly get what you pay for and £6 million these days does not get you much in terms of a quality midfielder. Due to the lack of money and how small our squad was is also another reason why Allardyce had to sacrifice quality over quantity. I think back to the team Robson inherited from Gullit and he had a much better base to work from than Sam Allardyce. Robson had Lee (still had legs in him), Speed, Barton, Solano (much better version than the one we got rid of in the summer), Dyer (I would say he was a lot better around that time, though how much was that down to Robson or the player is a fair point) and Given. All players who Robson could count on and build from. I look at what Sam inherited and really there's not much there, Given, Charles N'zogbia can be a top player if coached properly and possibly Martins if coached the right way but there's not one other player I would be bothered about if they left and just thinking about it I wouldn't be upset if Martins went! Yes Sam should have been doing a lot better against the lower teams and I can't understand some of his decisions/tactics but it's the players who should be taking the blame!

I remembe a while back that the top of Byker next to B&Q was muted as a possible place for a new stadium. Wouldn't be too bad as it would be easy to get to! I just wouldn't want it south of the tyne which is what John Hall wanted to do initially.

Sorry but I can only judge him on what I'm seeing on the pitch now and it's not good at all. Eriksson's turned a mediocre Man City team into quite a formidable team in the same time as Allardyce has had with us. Ramos has turned a failing Spurs team around in less time than Allardyce has had with us. I'm not saying that we should sack him this minute, but the football we've played thus far does not fill me with any optimism that things will drastically improve. Going to the SOS looking for a draw? FFS!! Playing 5-4-1 away to second bottom Wigan? Crap negative tactics against teams we should be looking to overpower. He spends more time worrying about the other side's stats rather than coming up with a plan on how to beat them. I think the writing is on the wall for Allardyce if he continues in this vein. My sentiments exactly and I suspect many others feel the same way. I don't see how you can compare us with Spurs and Man City. Spurs finished way above us last term and spent much money than us in the summer. With regards to Man City I'm sure they only finished a point behind us last year and also spent a lot more cash than us in the summer. I'm not saying that Sam should not shoulder some of the blame for what has happened this season but personally the lack of investment and the players should be blamed more for our current situation. I understand that Ashley had to clear off the debts but until there is a lot of money pumped into the squad then I can't see us doing much. In many respects I see similarities now to when Robson first came to Newcastle and did not have much to spend. With money tight you have to take more chances on players which Robson did with people like Bassedas, Gavilan, Cort and O'Brien.

Everyone is entitled to their views but we could put Emre in there or leave him out and it wouldn't make too much of a difference. Simple fact is that he's just a mid table player like the rest of them. Infact I was thinking about our central midfield the other day and we just seem to have a revolving door of midfielders that cost about £4-£6 million and don't improve the team, they are just average. Jenas, Dyer, Parker, Viana, Bowyer, Butt, Emre, Geremi, Smith and Barton for my mind are all middle of the table players. Look at that list and is it any wonder we've been a mid table team for the last few years when they are so average? I'm not saying we should be getting world beaters but the simple fact is that none of those players are even fit to lace the boots of say Rob Lee and that is the quality we should be aiming for, even if it costs around £10 million or so.

Strange thing I find about booing is actually making the sound! As a 30 year old I just couldn't bring myself to utter the soud of booing as I'd feel like an idiot! I'd much rather just say something like it's "F***ing S**t" or something as a way of venting my anger! Obviously you can't coordinate the crowd to say the same words to get the message across together but saying that you don't need to as the team will know when a crowd is not happpy without the booing. Also don't agree with the presssure of the crowd getting to certain players as that is what they are paid to handle and if they can't handle it then they are being overpiad and should not be here. Also all the players who have left here have never gone on to better things so I just think they were either over raated when they were younger (i.e. Jenas & Parker) or were over the hill when we got them (i.e. Kluivert)! Actually just thinking, how is Boumsong doing in the top flight with Juventus?

Don't agree mate. If you look at previous decades at short periods when the England team has been decent there has been a spine of genuine class players. We don't have that right now. If I can be bothered I may look up some team selections during periods when we weren't bad, but just looking at '66 through to '70 I'm talking players of the calibre of Banks, Moore, Charlton etc. We just don't have that level of comparative quality these days. Even going back to 1990, the team then had players like Beardsley, Waddle, Lineker, Pearce, Shilton, Gazza, Walker, Platt.....all of which would be in the England team now, yes I'd put Beardsley and Lineker before Rooney and Owen. [although I wouldn't dispute that Rooney is worthy to step into Beardo's shoes, I'm talking more of a partnership). Only Gary Neville and John Terry of the current team would get into that England team IMO. It's an absolute and total myth that foreign players have improved English players. The top class ones have given glamour to and enhanced the premiership ie Zola, Henry etc, but overall they have stunted their growth. Topical - watching the under 21's now, and Theo Walcott looks every inch the player Keyring Dire dreamed of being, but never will be in a million years. He's finished. His crap attitude has cost him his career, he's wasted it. James Milner has just scored a penalty after Walcott was brought down. It's well recognised that Banks, Charlton and Moore were Englands top 3, true World Class players. I would add Ray Wilson to that list too. Where England really scored was that the players all played to their best, in their most comfortable positions, and the overall balance and shape of the team suited everybody. Some people also say we won because we were at home. This was a big factor, but I think England could have won that cup anywhere in Europe. We were certainly the 2nd best team in the world 4 years later, by which time the Brazilians had found themselves again and had the best international team that has ever won that competition in my lifetime anyway. I think the biggest football travesty of all time is that the Dutch team from 1973 to 1978 won nowt, they were the best team for that period and how they didn't win the World Cup in '74 and again in '78 tells the story that the best team doesn't always win. That Dutch team against the Brazil team of 1970 would have been a spectacle to behold and England would have been in the mix at that time. In 1970 England weren't far behind Brazil both individually and collectively, it would have been a very competitive final in 1970 had it been England versus Brazil and we may have won, the teams were that close. Overall, for a number of years we were a benchmark for the rest even though we only won it in 1966. While I'm comparing players of today against players of the past I'm doing it in the context of comparing the current players against those of other nations right now and it's clear that we just don't get close individually. We could always fluke something, of course. Like Greece. Not an expert on the 1966 world cup squad and football at the time, but there's no way I could see an England manager being strong enough to leave out an individual like Greaves (for example Rooney in the present team) for the benefit of the team. Recent managers just seem to be too blinded by individuals and not thinking about the pattern of the team.

For me the problem is more deep down. I was reading Gianluca Vialli's book comparing our game to Italian football and one of the main problems identified with the British game is the emphasis on "passion" with out looking at the more technical aspects of the game. A case in point would be the appointment of Pearce at under 21 level who is basically only there because of his perceived "passion", what are our younger players going to learn from him? Similar problem with Newcastle, when we get beat you mostly hear people saying the players don't care and lack passion. Complete rubbish, most of the time it is because they are not good enough. For example I'd have a player like Robert who many thought lacked passion but produced the goods going forward to someone like Lee Clark who was pretty limited as a footballer. I also think our game is far too inward looking, hardly any managers or players go abroad and when they do look at what happened to Coleman this week. Also look at the resentment that there is against the coaching badges, we should be embracing things like this to help people become better at their job.

Shearer, Beardsley, Gascoigne. (Special mention for two people I left out, Lee and Ferdinand out)

I agree that a new keeper is not a priority but I sort of know where this thread came from. I don't think Given is as good as some people make out, a very good shot stopper, decision making OK but not too much prescence in the box. Saying that I also don't think this is a great time for goalkeepers as there are not too many out there who have a good solid all round game. Actually related to this, you see people like Parker, Duff, Shaun Wright Phillips, Johnson leaving or being linked with a move away from Chelsea, but I'm amazed that no one has ever gone in for Cudicini. Not sure if this says more about him being happy to get his money or Chelsea not wanting him to leave.

Agree 100%. They are also on to something when they said there was some people in the press box who would have liked us to have got beat and not just on the Mackem side. Oliver said the same thing on his video review about knowing NUFC fans who wanted us to get beat, but I don't know one person who would have liked us to get beat "to bring things out into the open". Did anyone on here say they wanted us to get beat?

You'd have to go for Gazza for what he did at Italia 90 in my opinion, never seen an English player turn it like he did at a world cup. With regards to our current lack of players, not sure how much I blame the academy. For sure we should be doing a lot better but for me that would be by brining in young players from further a field. Middlesbrough has been mentioned as a shining example but who exactely have they produced who is a good player. For me it's only Downing and even then he's just half decent. I said it in an earlier thread there's been a shocking lack of talent North of the M62 since Shearer. I can't think of one player (bar Woodgate if he wasn't injured) who you could regard as "world class". Compare this to some of the players produced in the North East and Scotland in the years before Shearer. Also compare how many good players the North East is producing to the North West.

I'd like to answer this when we've won it!! Don't think many toon fans can honestly answer this question as about 80% of fans have not seen the club win a thing!