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I've tried to ignore everything after 'Also consider'. Thanks for that. As the first explanation for the £7 million figure was so different from this one, you can understand why I'm a bit sceptical about those figures. Firstly, they look like annual figures, not those for 7 months. Did the club really estimate that we were not going to make anything at all on the transfer market? And then ended up with an unexpected bonanza of £19 million? As for the wage bill, according to that table, the club actually managed to lop £11 million off the wage bill ON TOP of the amount that they needed to lop off. Hummm.....

I'd be interested to see this email if you'd care to share it. The previous email reply said that the figures were based on a projected return to the Premiership.

Liverpool and Man U seem to have got into this problem because they're having to compete with Chelsea (and now Man City) who are heavily subsidised from outside. It looks like the bigger clubs are now just as vulnerable as the smaller ones. This can only get worse until these two problems are addressed - 1) The gaps between the income of the Champions League clubs and the Premiership, and between the Premiership and the Championship. These gaps are causing clubs to take risks to avoid relegation / stay in or get to the top four etc 2) The expenditure of clubs needs to be tied into their turnover. Outside subsidies on the scale of Chelsea and Man City have completely distorted the market.

Just to muddy the waters still further, there's an article on Times Online today by George Caulkin, and he seems to have a good relationship with NUST. The following passage struck me - 'At some stage, the NUST will seek to purchase a portion of the club from Mike Ashley. For the record, they are well aware that they cannot buy Newcastle outright; the aim is to take a percentage and build from there'. After what they've said about Ashley, there's no way they can have a constructive working relationship with him. Any mutual trust has been blown out of the water. They either have to buy outright or remain a pressure group on the outside. It does look like they've been a bit indiscreet with Caulkin. I can't see anyone wanting to part with a large amount of money just for the privilege of a minority share with no real power. These guys are just totally out of their depth.

I don't see the point of all this guesswork about how we compare with West Brom when NUST have already made it clear how they've arrived at the £7 million figure. (See Belios post above)

There's one right here, people are only really criticising them for their press release/statement that's been released today, which is also something you've also said is worthy of criticism. The NUST accusation is more than 'vaguely unprofessional', and it didn't 'work its way into the public domain'. NUST put it there. They have themselves sought to attract attention to this accusation and so you are going to get some kind of a debate. Obviously not everyone is going to see things the way that they hope. Why have they done it? Well, NUST have received a lot of favourable press attention over the last few months. Not long ago, we had an equally implausible story from 'a source close to NUST' to the effect that they had £50 million worth of pledges. I can't help but think that the main reason it made one or two papers was that the laws of libel weren't infringed. I can only think that on this particular occasion, NUST have become over-confident, given the completely uncritical coverage they've received from the media in the past.

They haven't raised £50 million though. In fact, I haven't seen any evidence that they've raised any money at all.

Ken Bates isn't one to accept defeat easily, so I could see this spinning out for a while yet.

I'll have a go. This looks like it's based on a document from a few months ago when Ashley was trying to sell the club for £95 million. He is pointing out to potential buyers that if they take the club at that price and then get the club promoted, the club would be worth between £150m and £200m - which is probably correct. They then point out the cost-cutting measures that are there to ensure the club is financially stable during the 'promotion season', and conclude that if someone makes the purchase, the return in terms of the increased value of the club is likely to be £84 million IF we are promoted. If we don't get promoted, things are still stable. NUST have taken that figure of £84 million, divided it by 12, and concluded that Ashley is making a profit of £7 million per month. Complete rubbish. What they are not taking into account is that we have not been promoted, and Ashley has already lost £230 million on his own purchase of the club and by clearing the initial £90 million debt. You reckon "a respected company's Investment document that was used to try to raise investment to buy the Club" means Ashley? I'm not sure quite what it means, but how could it be Ashley "[raising] investment to buy the Club"? Like the rest of this missive, it sounds suspiciously like nonsense. I've got a feeling they mean the Profitable Group I take your point. It's not completely clear whether this was Ashley's view of the potential value of the club, or someone else's. The most significant fact is NUST have used this information to imply that Ashley is currently raking off large monthly profits from the club, which is clearly nonsense. Either they don't understand the information, or have decided to put that particular slant on it. Either way, it's a worry.

NUST are sailing pretty close to the wind here. They are trying to attract large amounts of money from ordinary people, and if this '£7 million' figure from the earlier statement is based on that information, then that amounts to a major piece of deceit.

I'll have a go. This looks like it's based on a document from a few months ago when Ashley was trying to sell the club for £95 million. He is pointing out to potential buyers that if they take the club at that price and then get the club promoted, the club would be worth between £150m and £200m - which is probably correct. They then point out the cost-cutting measures that are there to ensure the club is financially stable during the 'promotion season', and conclude that if someone makes the purchase, the return in terms of the increased value of the club is likely to be £84 million IF we are promoted. If we don't get promoted, things are still stable. NUST have taken that figure of £84 million, divided it by 12, and concluded that Ashley is making a profit of £7 million per month. Complete rubbish. What they are not taking into account is that we have not been promoted, and Ashley has already lost £230 million on his own purchase of the club and by clearing the initial £90 million debt.

Barton would probably be at his best in a 4-3-3. If it's a 4-4-2, you'd want him in the centre, to take advantage of his passing ability, but at the same time he's not a great athlete and you might feel that he'd weaken the defensive effort of the team. 4-3-3 means a stronger centre midfield area where that's not so much of a problem. As I said in my previous post, our best performances in those last games of the 07-08 season came when Barton had a good run in the team, and there was a 4-3-3 formation. But I'd always try to fit him in somewhere. Basically, he's our best player.

It seems that they've struggled to get any serious offers of investment from financial institutions and businesses, and their hope always was that by demonstrating a high level of support for a fans' takeover, that in itself would convince the bigger money to come on board. It's a pipe dream. They could collect 100,000 emails or surveys which say, 'Yes it would be a good thing if the fans owned the club and I'd like to find out more', but that isn't a demonstration that large numbers of people are prepared to part with large amounts of money. And that is what it would take before any institutions of signficance would want to join in. The peddling of this £7 million rumour and this last minute survey feels like a desperate attempt to drum up more support. But it makes them looks amateurish and silly.

If he can get himself fit and have a run of games under his belt, he'll be a big asset. He's a very good player. Interestingly, by some way his longest run of consecutive league starts for us stands at 8. And that was in our purple patch from Birmingham away, at the end of 07 - 08 season, when we avoided relegation.

Bear in mind that the phrase 'up to' £7 million includes the figure zero.

I'm not quite so pessimistic. Yes, I'm sure Leeds will want to start an auction and it's likely that some struggling Premiership sides will become interested. They might well be able to outbid us. However, the player has a lot of power when his contract is running out and clubs are still prepared to pay a transfer fee. Beckford seems to very much have a mind of his own and we might well be his preferred destination. Apart from anything else, I reckon we could at least match the wages of the likes of Hull or Wolves, and Beckford would be better off joining a club where the momentum was upward. I'd also agree with Ketsbaia's SH. We all use comparisons with other players and situations to guide our thinking, but ultimately every player is an individual package and you have to simply use your judgement on what's there in front of you.

Beckford reminds me a bit of Ian Wright, who also had a very slow start to his career. Wright was no great shakes technically, and was a mouthy sod, but on a matchday with the adrenalin pumping he'd somehow get goals that you wouldn't expect. He was a big personality who never felt inferior to the opposition. And Bellamy is the prime example of the fact that you shouldn't pay too much attention to what a club's fans are saying. Beckford is rejecting Leeds, not the other way round.

I've just watched a compilation of Beckford's 20 goals from 07-08, and they were long range, short range, and with both feet. There were very few easy chances and he showed a real ability to improvise. It looks like the lad has an ego the size of the Eiffel Tower, and that may well have held his career back. But he's not short of confidence and looks well worth the gamble. He certainly won't be overawed at a higher division. Harewood is on loan to a Championship side for a reason - he's not good enough for the Premiership any more. Beckford I could imagine rising to the challenge. Beckford and Ranger together is too good a chance to miss. They could be a lethal combination. Let's go for it.

Barton? Hum, I hope not. I'd rather he left it to the likes of Smudger and Nolan. Really? Because everything I hear about Barton's attitude around the training ground and with the younger lads sounds really positive, and that is from the likes of Nolan and Smith. I am pretty sure that if someone was disrupting the team spirit that the lads seem to have, the likes of Smith, Harper, Nolan and Barton would be the ones to sort it out. I'm sure there's more to Joey than the thug, but I still don't trust his temper. call me naive but i really think he's learned his lesson from his bad times and is a changed man who just wants to get on with football I can certainly believe that he's made an effort and has acquired more self-control. Whether that makes him a 'changed man' is a different matter. I hope that part of his rehab has been to avoid situations which trigger his unwanted behaviours, so he ought to leave any sorting out to the others.

I'd agree that there is a problem, in that since the Keegan / Hall era, the expectations are much higher, but there hasn't been the means to deliver on those expectations. That can put a lot of pressure on the players. The glass is half empty rather than half full. It's a lot easier playing in front of Birmingham fans, because they're in a state of delirium because they're 8th. Sir Bob was booed after finishing 5th. It's not the only problem, but it's there.

Barton? Hum, I hope not. I'd rather he left it to the likes of Smudger and Nolan. Really? Because everything I hear about Barton's attitude around the training ground and with the younger lads sounds really positive, and that is from the likes of Nolan and Smith. I am pretty sure that if someone was disrupting the team spirit that the lads seem to have, the likes of Smith, Harper, Nolan and Barton would be the ones to sort it out. I'm sure there's more to Joey than the thug, but I still don't trust his temper.

That's why it says 'pledged' But the money hasn't been pledged. NUST were only asking for expressions of interest, and were encouraging people to come forward by stressing that there was no obligation attached to registering. If the money really had been pledged, then it would be fair enough to say it had been raised, because a pledge in its true sense is a guarantee. Am assuming you mean my figures? I am as sceptical as you in that regard, i just put the absolute minimun for it My point wasn't about the ultimate target figure - your guess is as good as mine on that. I interpreted your and Chris's statements as meaning that there was still a long way to go, even though £50 million could be knocked off it. I was just pointing out that NUST hadn't raised any money at all yet, let alone £50 million.

That's why it says 'pledged' But the money hasn't been pledged. NUST were only asking for expressions of interest, and were encouraging people to come forward by stressing that there was no obligation attached to registering. If the money really had been pledged, then it would be fair enough to say it had been raised, because a pledge in its true sense is a guarantee.

Both those figures are a bit misguided, because NUST haven't actually raised any money at all yet.