TRon

Freddie and family were on a nice little earner there. But in his favour he wasn't a cockney cunt and was a proud local lad from Walker.

What is it they hope to achieve? The problems at the club are lack of finance, the only one who is capable of providing money to invest in the team is Ashley. From the accounts it's clear he's done that to quite a hefty level already. Yes we need him to provide more but he's hardly likely to want to do that if he's not welcome at his own team's stadium. So as an anti-Ashley lobby group why would we want to join an association which in my opinion is doing more harm than good?

Nothing to grumble about with the youth side of it, Kadar looked a real prospect which must be why he broke his leg. The problem is it makes our puny efforts at signing first teamers all the more disheartening. Not to mention mental. Joe Kinnear's habit of telling the world of every player he's going to sign, then putting in daft offers which get laughed out of sight just come across as lunacy.

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position. That is a good comparison actually, Jonas is like a slower version of Dyer who isn't a cunt and doesn't get injured, also works harder defensively. Whilst Jonas looks destructive when running, he flatters to deceive imo. Take his late run in the box vs WH; can you see Robert not converting in that position? He would have cracked it like a bullet. Jonas has the work ethic which people seem to desire so much, but you cannot replace technical ability. He will never score a goal like the many Robert smashed in. What I'm trying to say is technically, who do we have in the squad who competes with the likes of Robert/Solano? Nobody. Agreed, but what I'm saying is that when you've got a squad full of shite midfielders, Jonas is the least of our problems. Duff, Butt and Guthrie all contribute no end product, the only difference being they are slower and can't go past people. Once these guys are out of the first team we can look to finding a better replacement for Jonas, although we probably wouldn't need one if the other changes were actually made. I'm picking out Jonas because people think he's quality when in reality he's a completely average Prem midfielder for someone pushing top 9/10 and I'm asking why pick out Jonas when we have a squad full of has-beens picking up big wages for producing far less? If we put the entire midfield up for sale who would fetch the least from Jonas, Guthrie, Geremi, Barton, N'Zogbia, Butt or Duff? If you think the answer is Jonas you have a point.

I agree with most of the stuff you are saying I think people it is time to be United once again we have to back Ashley and his long term strategy. He bought back Keegan in a ways by thinking he would be great for us. HE WAS GREAT to some time but for what ever reason it didn't work out why are we so harsh on a person who spends 230 mil on us? It is really insane we think we are against Ashley but indirectly we are against Newcastle United. We have to stop this tit for tat know and move on. Time to be positive for Ashley Whatever anyone may think about Ashley there is no doubt that work has gone in securing young players for the future. But none of us will know if this strategy has worked for a while yet. And in the mean time you look at the state of our first team squad and the fact that we have a management structure that is shall we say "unappealing" to a proven manager and you simply think wtf (well I do). Arsenal have built from the bottom but they have always made sure that their first team squad is competitive. This area is being neglected and you really can't discount the potential for it all to go seriously wrong. Arsenal were heading the same way we are under Bruce Rioch before they hired Wenger. Since then they have generally operated a policy of selling their best players at a premium price once they have gone past their sell by date, replacing them with younger, better models. This is something I still endorse.

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position. That is a good comparison actually, Jonas is like a slower version of Dyer who isn't a cunt and doesn't get injured, also works harder defensively. Whilst Jonas looks destructive when running, he flatters to deceive imo. Take his late run in the box vs WH; can you see Robert not converting in that position? He would have cracked it like a bullet. Jonas has the work ethic which people seem to desire so much, but you cannot replace technical ability. He will never score a goal like the many Robert smashed in. What I'm trying to say is technically, who do we have in the squad who competes with the likes of Robert/Solano? Nobody. Agreed, but what I'm saying is that when you've got a squad full of shite midfielders, Jonas is the least of our problems. Duff, Butt and Guthrie all contribute no end product, the only difference being they are slower and can't go past people. Once these guys are out of the first team we can look to finding a better replacement for Jonas, although we probably wouldn't need one if the other changes were actually made.

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position. No doubt, but for me I consider Jonas as one of our better players, he makes up for his lack of goals by opening up teams with his speed and movement. I would far rather upgrade the other midifelders first. If we put Jonas up for sale I'm pretty sure there'd be plenty of takers. Can't say that for Duff, Butt, Geremi etc.

He's paid the debt off. as a loan As opposed to doing what? Genuine question. as opposed to 'putting his hand in his pocket to pay off the debt' something for which most on here praised him. for over a year. probably repeated a thousand times over. people thought that, dont try and reinvent the past to make it look like everyone thought it was a loan from the start. im not criticising Ashley for it but at the same time im not going to praise him as, thus far, we've not had the knock-on effect of the money freed up being used to make us better. So how would you account for it in the accounts? Putting his hand in his pocket is exactly what he has done. He's taken £100m from his bank & cleared the clubs debt with the loan holders. okay, maybe we should call it 'putting his hand in his pocket on the condition that he gets back at least the amount he took out of his pocket.' people on here seemed to think of it as a donation, not what it actually is. anyway, afk, donating to Oxfam on the condition that they give me all my money back in 4 years. You really don't get it, do you!?! If he "gives" the club the money, the value of the club goes up by that amount. If he "loans" the club the money, the value of the club stays the same and so does the debt. It equates to the same thing. If he sells the club he gets money for it, be that through an increased sale price or through repayment of debt, or are you hoping he'll give it away? The club was about £100m in debt when Ashley bought it, and it was still about £100m in debt at the end of the last full tax year. Hardly reason to ignore the state of the club is in two years after Ashley took over. The club was about £75 million in debt when Ashley took over and was £105 million in debt at the end of his first full year. He funded that additional £30 million. And we have made no progress despite that funding. There are all sorts of reasons but one of them has to be too many ordinary or injury prone players achieving little and earning too much money. Bingo...and most of them were bought by Allardyce and his predecessors appointed by you know who.

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover. The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow. You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

I wonder how much cash Ashley has at his disposal if in theory, he wanted to spend £20m this window? Could he release the funds from his own pocket despite being a cockney cunt who isn't welcome at the ground?

I wasn't the one that originally brought up Ipswich, but a few that spring to mind are: - I'm surprised you forgot Dyer (probably better than every player you mentioned combined) - A £17m striker in Bent (he's not worth that, but apparently that's what big clubs do), - One Titus Bramble (ah how I miss those signings that said "ambition") - An international keeper in Richard Wright who won a Premier League winners medial IIRC. (Ok slightly different from us qualifying for Europe, but I'm sure he'll get over it) Good to see you didn't cherry pick too I never once mentioned being run like Ipswich. I merely suggested that we, or any team for that matter, will benefit from a good youth set up. What you do with them after that is a different argument. Your reasoning that because West Ham sell some of their youngsters, Ashley will get us relegated is, some might say, slightly warped. Surely even you can see your logic that because some teams with good youth set ups have struggled, therefore it must be a bad thing, is flawed. They also all had tea ladies as well. I can't even believe you're arguing about it. On second thoughts.... I did mention Dyer. I also deliberately missed out Bramble and Ambrose, because they were their "best" youngsters, who in the end arguably didn't prove good enough for us ala Ameobi, Chopra, Hughes etc. So. The only one is Bent, maybe. For Dyer, who we bought, being the bigger club, or rather we were at the time. Richard Wright v Steve Harper ? The bigger question being that it has been pointed out to you that these clubs who put the accent on finding the young players - as mentioned - have all sold them because they haven't "spunked money on bigger ready made players" to go with it, which is what the big clubs do, or do if they are actually big clubs. The ones that don't, lose their youngsters, as mentioned, just like Ipswich who have lost some to Newcastle, when they acted like a bigger club, but didn't when they didn't act like it as in the days when Bobby Robson was manager of Ipswich Town and showed very little interest in managing the much bigger club, his hometown club, Newcastle United. I just know you won't understand this, the same as the shitloads of people who also didn't understand it when it was pointed out that good owners choose to back managers, rather than choose to not back them . The difference now is beoming more clear to people, but not yet all it would seem. For people who cast envious glances at the likes of Ipswich town, its your prerogative, at least playing years in the 2nd division means they don't do embarrassing things, partly because it means they are out of sight and out of mind. Just like we used to be, and just like where we will end up again if the current regime stays as it is. so you would advocate just giving managers cash,racking up debt year on year hoping it works and not really caring about what happens if it doesn't.......have you noticed what clubs like west ham, portsmouth,everton and boro are now doing ? and to pre empt your call about we shouldn't be ranking ourselves alongside such clubs i'll say we should becuase the way the club has been ran we have as much available cash as these despite a higher turnover we also had much higher outgoings. THROWING THE BANKS MONEY AT A MANAGER YEAR ON YEAR IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. Who cares? It doesn't cost nowt to complain so NE5 is getting maximum value for giving us his tuppence worth.

They are going to, they said in the press that they would be saying something after the transfer window has closed. i can almost guarantee now that whatever is said will be laughed at and not believed. What has Ashley done so far to merit being taken seriously by the fans? Why do you cut Ashley so much slack? Not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely interested. Because right now there's a marked absence of any other fucker willing to put tens of millions of their own cash into the club to keep it out of insolvency? This sort of logic is not welcome, let me remind you what an ambitious board would do, big signings, top supported club, old board, etc, blah blah, drone

It's not so much that, more the way he gets away with spouting off anything to the press, blatantly tapping many players up and trying to unsettle them and breaking every code of conduct and the geneva convention etc. I truly fucking detest the man. Even if he didn't break any codes I'd still detest him tbf.

If Geremi plays instead we might as well not turn up. It's not like he is going to run the extra mile for the club...mainly because he can't run.

No they f***ing well shouldn't. Someone explain to me what the point of having an excellent goalkeeper is when the rest of team is poor? Shay has made countless fantastic saves this season and where has it got us? We're shipping a lot of goals because our midfield doesn't protect the back four and because the defensive fringe players we have are fucking crap. Shay might keep the goals against tally down to 2 instead of 4 but it's still a defeat. We need strength in depth in midfield and defence, and if selling Shay Given will generate the funds for us to do so then it's a no-brainer as far as i'm concerned. At the moment it looks like we could be heading for relegation in which case someone will poach him off us for peanuts anyway. We might as well sell him now and sign a couple of players who could help us scrape enough points to stay in the league. Exactly, it's about priorities, and having 4 good keepers isn't one of them. There's a danger that asking for daft money will see the deal delayed too late blowing our chances of getting in re-inforcements where we really need them. City can afford to take their time, we can't. don't think moneys any use myself, we'll not attract anyone of the quality to keep us up even if we get 10m for given, which is the max i can see johnson & onohua straight swap, or some cash and a maybe a couple on loan til the end of the season like sturridge and the 2 already mentioned, get bodies in at the expenses of one out who we CAN replace from within if, as looks likely, givens move is going to determine our immediate future i hope to fuck its not a cash only deal unless its for 30m which it won't be Johnson isn't keen on coming here according to reports in the press.

Exactly what I was talking about. The problem with Joe Kinnear is that I don't have much faith in him to bridge the divide. He could probably organise a good knees up though.

No they f***ing well shouldn't. Someone explain to me what the point of having an excellent goalkeeper is when the rest of team is poor? Shay has made countless fantastic saves this season and where has it got us? We're shipping a lot of goals because our midfield doesn't protect the back four and because the defensive fringe players we have are fucking crap. Shay might keep the goals against tally down to 2 instead of 4 but it's still a defeat. We need strength in depth in midfield and defence, and if selling Shay Given will generate the funds for us to do so then it's a no-brainer as far as i'm concerned. At the moment it looks like we could be heading for relegation in which case someone will poach him off us for peanuts anyway. We might as well sell him now and sign a couple of players who could help us scrape enough points to stay in the league. Exactly, it's about priorities, and having 4 good keepers isn't one of them. There's a danger that asking for daft money will see the deal delayed too late blowing our chances of getting in re-inforcements where we really need them. City can afford to take their time, we can't.

If it's true that the pair haven't settled their diferences yet it's bad news, because if the first team squad isn't already a split camp, this sort of thing will lead to one. Bassong is mates with Zog, Enrique was getting blasted by Barton last Saturday...if they showed as much fight on the pitch it would be great.

Krul and Forster are both very good prospects. I was pleased when Wise pulled the plug on Krul's move to Feyenoord in the summer and I'm even more pleased now Shay's getting itchy feet.

Do you actually think they are going to change their views after seeing the accounts?

You're right. And we also have to remember how the league table has panned out so far. There are technically 10 or 12 teams who aren't exactly safe. A team lying in 9th at the moment could go on a bad run and easily find themselves in the mire. Another reason why quality players from the clubs around us will not be leaving, as their clubs cannot afford to slip up. It's been a deadlock. A mass clear-out from West Ham & Man City could have helped matters along, but so far it's only been Bellamy outgoing, so not much has given way. The two most important areas we need to strengthen are full back on both sides. At he moment we have David Edgar at right back and we are living on a prayer of Enrique being fit otherwise we have no cover if Zog goes (he isn't a left back anyway). It shouldn't be too difficult to find a couple of defenders who can provide half decent cover, another Bassong/Guthrie sort of signing would be fine. We aren't trying to sign Ashley Cole so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Another injured full back, just what we needed

We don't have to support him, neither does he have to put any more of his own money into the club to keep fans happy, most of whom probably think he's a thieving Cockney cunt in any case. My hope is that he'll spend money just to safeguard his asset as a Premier League club.

Exactly. We are desperate for full backs and a midfielder right now, if we don't get them it's going to spell trouble. Goalkeepers isn't a position we are light in, and Given wants to leave in any case. Probably best for everyone concerned if a deal is done.

Not many.