TRon

That's different, they're in the middle of negotiations, no need to come out and say this 60/40 thing. I appreciate it if he thinks he's keeping the fans in the know but I think he should keep his mouth shut about this one. It's only different because you want it to be different so you can have a go, its in fact quite the same and tit for tat which Owen started. It's all part of the game, accept it and hope that JFK is telling the truth and Owen is 60/40, if he's not, its not a bad thing for our competitors to think that anyway meaning any fee were going to possibly receive in the winter window has now increased as were not as desperate to sell as some think and Owen isn't as desperate to leave as the media would imply. Owen's not exactly going to come out now and say he wants to leave, so all JFK has done is returned the serve from Owen and its now firmly in Owen's court. Don't fucking pretend you know what I'm thinking, you haven't got a clue. I've defended him from the mongs on here when he's come out with comments before but this is totally different. What you're going on about in the second paragraph I do not know. Owen was asked a question about his contract and fobbed them off, he didn't come out of the blue saying it like Kinnear has now. So what does a mong hater such as yourself really think about this contract situation? Because for myself seeing it from all POVs, and wanting what's best for the club, forcing Owen's hand is the best thing we can do right now for several reasons: * We know where we are with him for the rest of the season * We know what he's thinking * We can actively look to sell if he wants to go without upsetting him * We know how much he is wanting if at all * If he wants to go we can look for a replacement * If the club is still for sale we can let buyers know one way or another if he's staying. * The fans know the club's position * The players know the club's position * Owen knows the club's position and that he's wanted * Signing Owen quickly before the window will boost the club no end * The longer he doesn't sign, the more chance we lose him for free * Some info on what's happening stops the press writing anything they want getting the fan nervous and pressure building If we can get some early answers to some difficult questions then our winter window will go a lot more smoothly since we won't have the noose that is this contract situation hanging around our necks, it would be sorted one way or another. I don't disagree to most of that, but to go public is stupid. Yes and no, i can see the negatives for going public, but in this time, i reckon right now its needed to be handled like this, and i think it will honestly work in our favour. Just a feeling or hunch, nothing really to go off, the offer will get football people talking, it will give those thinking he'll sign for nowt in the summer a shock, and other more level headed people around him saying in the current climate, really, its a canny deal. Captain for the rest of his career, paid handsomely, living in this Country, and do the top 4 really want him, or have they other options than a 29 years old with a dodgy injury record? tbh, Owen is more suited to us than ever, bit of loyalty from him could be the boost in this tight league the club needs. I said it earlier, if Owen commits to us rather than run down his contract it will mean a hell of a lot to the supporters, some like me who have always wondered whether he really wants to be here. He'll become an instant St James hero, something he's never quite managed here so far.

we do the same for local players sometimes as well for that matter. Who? Steven Taylor? Chopra? Huntigdon? Matty P? Ramage? Taylor for one, Lee Clark was rated higher here than he was elsewhere for that matter.

It's ok if Owen doesn't mind the terms of the contract being discussed publicly. If he wants to sign I doubt if he'll be that bothered, although he'd probably prefer it if Joe kept his gob shut.

we do the same for local players sometimes as well for that matter.

you're not going down the "hope they fail" route I hope ? At my age now, I've seen far worse than this, and even the suggestion of it is pretty sad. Sorry but that is true and how I see it. For the record, I'll say what I've always said. The more "trophy players" the club sign ie just like the other trophy winners do, the better. If Owen DOES sign, is it a sign of a change or direction or Ashley trying to paper over the cracks and get deluded people on his side ? Do you think it would be a sign of him realising he has been wrong and is prepared to attempt to match the european qualifications of his predecessors ? What do you think ? I doubt very much that Ashley is going to spend big for a few reasons: firstly, the club is still up for sale. Secondly he hasn't got the money to compete with the top 4, only City have tbh. The other option would be to borrow money against the club and spend big like Liverpool, Manu and Villa. I don't think he was ever going to do that in the first place and definitely not now the clubs for sale. He's probably going to carry on trying to buy value players and build the squad gradually on players who won't go downhill quickly.

I'll bite. The object of the exercise is for the team to win matches, not for one player to score a lot of goals. How valuable Owen's contribution is to the team as a whole has been debated over and over, and I didn't want to get into that again. Personally I think we can thrive without him and the whole pantomime is bad for the club, but I concede I'm in the minority there. Do you think we'd score more goals if we allowed without Owen in the team? With Shola and Martins, we were creating chances and scoring goals, so I'm not worried, no. We'd need another striker to boost the numbers in the squad, but it wouldn't need to be anyone of Owen's standing. Our club has a tendency to drift into this kind of unrealistic hero worship. First it was persuading Shearer to keep playing long after he was knackered. Then it was shelling out stupid money for Owen. Then we had the whole Keegan fiasco. Now we seem to think that getting Owen to sign again would be something stupendous. It's all rubbish. The big four and the England manager don't want him for a reason. We shouldn't be offering Champions League wages to a player who isn't Champions League standard any more. Money-wise he is probably worth paying the extra because of his standing in the game. Kinnear is now repeating what Keegan first said about how much easier it is to attract other good players with someone like Owen at the club. If Owen would rather stay here than go to the likes of Spurs or City that's good enough for me. Strikers who score 1 in 2 don't grow on trees.

I hope Viduka's getting closer to full fitness, he's been training long enough now. We'll find out one way or the other whether Oba's a liability rather than an asset when we see how our other strikers pair up over Xmas anyway. how'd that work ? It depends...we are still talking football right? aye are you thinking you can tell if one player is good or not by how the team does in his absence regardless of how the rest of his team performs or how the opposition do. ? I am interested to see how other partnerships work. This thread is an example of how many think Martins is very important because he gives us an outlet on the break because of his pace. There's another argument that Viduka and Owen would make an effective strike duo because they are both intelligent players, then you have Shola in the mix as well. If Martins is out for the Xmas period we should get a good idea how effective various other partnerships will look.

I hope Viduka's getting closer to full fitness, he's been training long enough now. We'll find out one way or the other whether Oba's a liability rather than an asset when we see how our other strikers pair up over Xmas anyway. how'd that work ? It depends...we are still talking football right?

We should seize on this opportunity of him showing he might stay to forget about what has happened and give him a second chance to make the club a success. It's in his hands not ours tbh. If he backs the manager with decent money in Jan and shows he's in it for the long term, a lot of fans would be happy enough with that.

In an ideal world next season those two would definitely be no more bench players. The squad could be rotated so they are both starting games now and then, just to keep them sweet. Then we would be talking about a squad that is capable of going places.

I know, the fucking irony. Some seriously fucked up logic on here. T if there is a difference it is that NUSC is a small, newly formed amatuer supporters group which is still finding its feet, while ashley is a professional businessman who owns our club. so you have to hold him to higher standards. are you suggesting that it is the opposite and we're supposed to cut ashley slack for the same faults? if there's anyone out there who pans NUSC for being unprofessional and making jokes and doesnt do the same for ashley (if these quotes are real), then they have an agenda. Ashley's remark was a light-hearted throw away comment. If NUSC comments are also light-hearted and not meant to be taken seriously then you have a point. Is it all a big joke then?

I hope Viduka's getting closer to full fitness, he's been training long enough now. We'll find out one way or the other whether Oba's a liability rather than an asset when we see how our other strikers pair up over Xmas anyway.

3 mids? How much? £3m/£7m/£4m? We do lack midfielders though to be fair. I'd be happy with any of them. O'Toole looks a cracking prospect and would be a really good signing if we could get him for around £3m. You've probably priced Ledley correctly too, although he apparently wants out and his contract is up next season so maybe you could knock a couple of million off his tag? We've all seen what Larsson can do. Wouldn't want us to pay over £4/£5m for him though. All three would add something different to our squad in my opinion. I like what i've heard (not seen much admittedly) of all three, and yes they'd be good additions to bolster a weak mid, but my problem is they are all too general. I'd rather us bring in a rigid DMC, big strong athletic powerhouse to sit in front of the back four (Sissoko) then a slight, very pacey attacking mid who runs with the ball and frightens defenders (D'Alessandro) rather than general jack of all trades, i think that's been our problem for a while, having too many of that kind. It wouldn't be the end of the world by any means and i'd welcome the additions and be pleased, just imo i reckon we need out and out style players, no more Scott Parker's, Geremi's, Barton's & even Emre's who we can never find the right formation for or blend. I think with O'Toole he has something different about him. I'd say he can run with the ball and can make things happen plus he's chipped in with a fair few goals for Watford too. I agree with your points though and I'd like to see signings of a similar nature. The good thing about all three is that they are still young and have plenty of potential to develop even further. If we can bring in one of these lads with a big powerhouse DM then I'd be happy. Then in the summer window, I'd look at bringing in a really classy attacking midfielder. I think Kinnear has specifically said he wants a big dominant centre midfielder in the mould of Vierra which I agree with, but he has to be a class player otherwise there's no point. If it's another Amdy Faye, we're better off sticking to what we've got. He should ditch any plans to bring in Upson and spend the extra on a really good midfielder.

If Owen does sign a new 3 year contract here, he will go on to become everyone's favourite player again. It'll answer all the doubts that he really wants to be here, and nothing would please me more, although I would be pleasantly surprised as Fat Fred used to say.

I know, the fucking irony. Some seriously fucked up logic on here. The logic that thinks the two situations are even comparable is more questionable though, but we aren't really dealing in logic here are we?

Ashley is a businessman, he will not want to see Owen walk away for free at the end of the season. He knows Owen has no intention of staying beyond the terms of his current deal so Ashley offers him a deal he knows won't be accepted to look like he's trying his best to keep the player and with the size of the offer saying to fans look how ambitious we are, when in reality he's hoping to sell him now to get some money out of it. Owen will leave us in Jan and Kinnear will be told to replace him with some donkey from the lower leagues or some cheap foreign import. After all, Kinnear can turn dogshit into solid gold... being better than Capello and on the verge of European football. For all this to happen, don't Man City also need to want to pay a sizeable fee in January and doesn't Owen also need to be ready to go there? Not to mention Ashley being ready to risk the club's premier status for a few million quid. I'm not sure you've got your finger on the pulse there HTT mate.

If the anti-Ashley lobby is going to use light-hearted remarks like this as a stick to beat him with it doesn't really do their cause any favours. Why not get your head out of the sands and focus on what he does with his money in January when there might well be real cause for complaints? It's not even if they are that outrageous even if he wasn't half joking FFS. So he's talking up his manager and is proud of a couple of decent results, big deal.

Are you fucking joking? That's exactly what he'll be, a guaranteed starter for another year. He's not a bad squad player, but if he's around no British manager will put him on the bench. Another year of stagnation guaranteed. If Kinnear can leave Taylor out because someone has come in and done well then I can see him doing the same with Butt. Taylor wasn't left out, he lost his place through injury and Bassong took his chance. Same applies to Duff otherwise both players would still be playing IMO. To be fair, Kinnear showed some balls by not bringnig Owen straight back into the team when Shola was doing well, we'll see what happens when Barton comes back into the running.

Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club. Eh? Titus Bramble Released ... £4.5m loss Craig Moore Released ... £0 Oguchi Onyewu Released ... £0 Olivier Bernard Released ... £0 Pavel Srnicek Released ... £0 Antoine Sibierski Released ... £200k loss Scott Parker £7,000,000 ... £1m profit Alan OBrien Released ... £0 Kieron Dyer £7,000,000 £1m profit Paul Huntington £250,000 ... £250k profit Albert Luque Undisclosed Fee ... ? Nolberto Solano Free ... £1.5m loss Stephen Carr Released ... £2m loss Peter Ramage Released ... £0 James Troisi Released ... £0 Lamine Diatta Released ... £0 David Rozehnal £2.9m ... £0 Belozoglu Emre £3.5m ... £0 Abdoulaye Faye £2.25m ... £0 James Milner £12m ... £7m profit So of all the player that have left the club we've made summat like £2m-ish. Sign them up with re-sale value, then sell them on for a profit. Much like what Spurs have done. That's what I feel the club are trying to do. I can only think of 4, maybe 5 clubs in the entire world whose players dont have a price. Having said that i think you might be right about the Spurs thing, the only thing is that i dont think we'd be a club looking to sell but would sell for the right deal. Which players did Spurs sell willingly? Robbie Keane for £20m to Liverpool? That was daylight robbery, I'll bet most Liverpool fans would rather have the money back. Berbatov refused to stay, he wasn't sold through choice or to make a profit. I don't see anything devious or miserly in those deals which is what you are implying, in fact Spurs have spent big on top players like Bentley and Modric which is hardly penny-pinching behaviour. Im not implying anything. Although i do think that Spurs model is to buy players who can develop to make a profit - which they can reinvest, sort of self sufficient method of getting good players. Reinvestemtn program. What do you think Spurs thinking was when they sold both their main strikers[/b - a guarantueed 50-60 goals a season? Surely you dont think they thought it would be an easy propostition to replace them [i]both[/i] in one window? I think Spurs were thinking that both Keane and Berbatov wanted to go, and that they would receive 50 million pounds in return. To me they wanted to replace both, but they f***** around too long with the Berbatov transfer leaving them a few hours to et a striker. So which part of that is ambitious exactly? Berbatov was a definite goner but there didnt seem to be any effort to keep there other 'star' striker. imagine if Nufc did the exact same thing this january Window. My question was aimed at tooj not you, I should have quoted him directly. Personally I thought Spurs would have been mad to turn down £20m for Keane, obviously that also required getting a replacement in which didn't happen.

Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club. Eh? Titus Bramble Released ... £4.5m loss Craig Moore Released ... £0 Oguchi Onyewu Released ... £0 Olivier Bernard Released ... £0 Pavel Srnicek Released ... £0 Antoine Sibierski Released ... £200k loss Scott Parker £7,000,000 ... £1m profit Alan OBrien Released ... £0 Kieron Dyer £7,000,000 £1m profit Paul Huntington £250,000 ... £250k profit Albert Luque Undisclosed Fee ... ? Nolberto Solano Free ... £1.5m loss Stephen Carr Released ... £2m loss Peter Ramage Released ... £0 James Troisi Released ... £0 Lamine Diatta Released ... £0 David Rozehnal £2.9m ... £0 Belozoglu Emre £3.5m ... £0 Abdoulaye Faye £2.25m ... £0 James Milner £12m ... £7m profit So of all the player that have left the club we've made summat like £2m-ish. Sign them up with re-sale value, then sell them on for a profit. Much like what Spurs have done. That's what I feel the club are trying to do. I can only think of 4, maybe 5 clubs in the entire world whose players dont have a price. Having said that i think you might be right about the Spurs thing, the only thing is that i dont think we'd be a club looking to sell but would sell for the right deal. Which players did Spurs sell willingly? Robbie Keane for £20m to Liverpool? That was daylight robbery, I'll bet most Liverpool fans would rather have the money back. Berbatov refused to stay, he wasn't sold through choice or to make a profit. I don't see anything devious or miserly in those deals which is what you are implying, in fact Spurs have spent big on top players like Bentley and Modric which is hardly penny-pinching behaviour.

Just our bastard luck. Martins out and injury crocks King and Woodgate with a good chance of being fit once again before breaking down for 2 months each. How come these fuckers are always fit when our matches come around?

He'll do ok if he can replace Santa Cruz. Route one football is Sam's speciality, the problem at Newcastle was we didn't have the players for it, and Sam was too fat-headed to adapt.

Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club. Have we actually sold on any of our recent signings for a ridiculous amount, or is this just an urban myth put about by UV & associates? Please don't say Milner

Are you fucking joking? That's exactly what he'll be, a guaranteed starter for another year. He's not a bad squad player, but if he's around no British manager will put him on the bench. Another year of stagnation guaranteed. If we're looking at a £6m-rated CM as it stands (and if we get one) and then Barton gets back from injury as well, do you still think Butt will be an automatic starter? I think phasing him out is the best way to go about it. I hope that's how it turns out. If it does, I've no problem with Butt as a very useful squad player.

Right manager for the right club. or put another way: Shite manager for a shite club. Take your pick.