Mick

You really are slow, I said it was significant because we didn't get the grants, the grants were enough for Man U to build a stand with government money, the stand cost £350,000. In the early 70's we had to build a stand with our own money, we couldn't do anything else with that money because we could only spend it once. If we had of been a World Cup ground then we would have had free money to do that, we could have spent it on players, that's the suggestion I'm making. As for the other clubs winning things, they probably had a better chairman than we've currently got, is that possible? Shearer, Given and Rob Lee not wanting to leave, thank Sir John Hall for the state in which he left the club. He built the foundations of a successful club, the fact that the trophy cabinet is still bare isn't because of him, I'm quite sure that we would have done better under him if he had stayed and not handed it over to Shepherd. You keep banging on about poor directors then don't see any significance in what Shepherd was handed to him on a plate.

:rolllrg: Will you ever show signs of the age you claim to be? I've answered the post, I couldn't answer it before reading it, that shouldn't need to be explained but in your case I understand that it does. Post number 167 is now repeated for you. Which has NOT been answered, despite your claim that it, and the follow up posts by myself and NE15, have. "Please explain why Liverpool, Leeds, Man City, Arsenal, West Brom, Spurs, Chelsea, QPR, Swindon, Derby and Spurs all won domestic titles and trophies between 1966 and 1973 when the East Stand opened, despite all of them not hosting World Cup ties and receving grants ? Nor sky money Please tell us how much these grants were, as you say they had such a massive impact ? What improvements exactly did these grants have on the smoggies and the mackems grounds other than extra seats, including temporary ones in the Fulwell End at Roker Park, and superior press boxes.. Which I can tell you now, is pretty much all that these grants paid for. Unless one of Grass’ books can prove differently. Please also tell us something which I am sure escapes you completely too. How is it that the mackems and smoggies got allocated World Cup games in the first place ahead of us, only 11 years after we had completed a platform of winning the FA Cup 3 times in 5 years ? Why weren’t we in the top 5 clubs in the country at this time, only a decade later, rather than spending 6 of them in the old 2nd division ? Factual based responses to these factual points would be appreciated." Dear me. What do you think of this Grass, I thought you said people responded to questions ? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php/topic,26161.msg490460.html#msg490460

:rolllrg: Will you ever show signs of the age you claim to be? I've answered the post, I couldn't answer it before reading it, that shouldn't need to be explained but in your case I understand that it does.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to call you an idiot so I'll not, I've been away all week until Friday evening so had limited time on here when I have managed to get on. It's a company PC using a company internet connection so I have to take care what I use it for and when I'm on here it's usually with my web browser minimised so that nobody can see what I'm doing. Back to your complaint about the time it's taken to reply to this, see http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php/topic,26161.msg476203.html#msg476203 Well I haven't spent all week on the board either, and I can't be arsed to look through all the posts, I looked at my own postings, saw you had been logged on and not replied, so forgive me if I didn't conclude from that, that your time online had been limited and so, no, on that basis I don't give a toss who you call an idiot for jumping to conclusions ....... Now - Mick is quite clearly stating here he is wondering if he is allowed to call people idiots, then he goes on to link me to a "reply", which was earlier than post numbers 167-170 which I have referred him to, that he hasn't replied to yet. You couldn't make it up. BTW, I've also corrected misleading info you posted in post nr 154 in the "ronaldo for 10m" thread which I am also interested in your further views on, as well as the posts mentioned above. Jesus wept, you're right, you couldn't make it up. You mentioned page 7 of the thread, I linked to page 8 which comes after 7, I'd already replied to posts in page 7. If you were referring to post number 167-170 then say that. I'll change the colour of the font above as you obviously have trouble reading, give your head a shake.

It's an interesting and important subject when done the right way, it can be done without any vitriol, end of the day we all want the same, our name on a bloody trophy, now. It was a good post by Bob, and is obviously what I've been saying for ages and also without vitriol, as I think you'll agree even if some others won't. I think you've highlighted something here ........ I don't want to argue with you on this, but this is fine for people who became old enough to start supporting the club around the time SJH took over, but it doesn't wash with anybody who was supporting the club during those shite times though. That's obviously where we'll differ. You also said......... I don't recall the turnstile price when I first started going to matches in 1968, but I remember my first season ticket cost me £9 for the old stand paddock in 1973. I understand that the club was taking less revenue than they do today, but can you explain to me why that should have placed the club at a disadvantage in comparison to other clubs of that same time period, all of which would have been charging similar admission prices? I have to ask this, but do you think that Newcastle is the only club taking in more money now than it did in those earlier years? No, of course not. All clubs had exactly the same opportunity to generate money. If anything, given our larger potential support, I'd say we had a greater opportunity than some others. The problem is that potential has to be tapped but it wasn't until SJH took over. If other clubs were taking in more money it would have been because they were attracting larger attendances. Why do you think other clubs were attracting larger attendances than Newcastle? I do agree you made some good posts and have said so at times. The way I feel we were at a disadvantage, and I'm going into something that I can't recite chapter and verse here. Is that clubs like Man U, Sheff Wed, Boro, Mackems and others were given grants to develop grounds for the world cup, we didn't get those, I’m sure it was because we didn’t own the ground. If we had of been given grants for the world cup then we wouldn’t have had to spend money on the East Stand, that could have gone on players. I would love to have been able to see the clubs accounts for the 70’s and 80’s to see where our money went. I remember going to Keegans debut and we were supposed to have 36,000 in the ground and people were almost getting crushed, I went to a game a few weeks later and the crowd was given as 34,000’ish and I had plenty of room. A lot of people thought the directors were creaming money from the gate receipts; I have no idea if this was the case, or, that a couple of thousand could make a big difference. Please explain why Liverpool, Leeds, Man City, Arsenal, West Brom, Spurs, Chelsea, QPR, Swindon, Derby and Spurs all won domestic titles and trophies between 1966 and 1973 when the East Stand opened, despite all of them not hosting World Cup ties and receving grants ? Nor sky money Please tell us how much these grants were, as you say they had such a massive impact ? What improvements exactly did these grants have on the smoggies and the mackems grounds other than extra seats, including temporary ones in the Fulwell End at Roker Park, and superior press boxes.. Which I can tell you now, is pretty much all that these grants paid for. Unless one of Grass’ books can prove differently. Please also tell us something which I am sure escapes you completely too. How is it that the mackems and smoggies got allocated World Cup games in the first place ahead of us, only 11 years after we had completed a platform of winning the FA Cup 3 times in 5 years ? Why weren’t we in the top 5 clubs in the country at this time, only a decade later, rather than spending 6 of them in the old 2nd division ? Factual based responses to these factual points would be appreciated. Regarding the teams who won stuff between 1966 and 1973, maybe you can do the same and tell us why Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea with and without Abramovich, Boro, Blackburn, Leicester and Spurs have won something since Freedy became our chairman and we have not. Is this some sort of master plan to success that none of us less informed are aware of? Regarding how much the grants were, I've no idea, here's something from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Manchester_United check out the section headed "Rebuilding." That season was significant in other ways too, as England were hosting the 1966 World Cup and had announced that Old Trafford would be among the stadiums to be upgraded at the government's expense. Regarding how they got them, I seem to remember some problems between the football club and the council and also something about not owning our ground, prove I'm wrong if you can.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to call you an idiot so I'll not, I've been away all week until Friday evening so had limited time on here when I have managed to get on. It's a company PC using a company internet connection so I have to take care what I use it for and when I'm on here it's usually with my web browser minimised so that nobody can see what I'm doing. Back to your complaint about the time it's taken to reply to this, see http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php/topic,26161.msg476203.html#msg476203

Is that by application only or is it random for all members of the formum?

Check your pm's.

We signed John Robertson, John Hendrie, DAve Beasant and Andy Thorn, probably the first time I can remember us buying more than one token player a season that I had actually heard of. Roberston lasted no more than a handful of games then was back off to Hearts. Beasant was a terrible keeper for us, was signed on the back of his FA cup final save. I thought Andy Thorn was class at the time, looked solid, but again he soon was away And John Hendrie, probably pick of the bunch, great skill, but again we got rid. All 4 were gone before the start of the next season, no I didnt complain when they came, but would rather have kept Gazza another season that get those 4 in. You could argue that getting those 4 in contributed directly to us getting relegated and undoing all the hard work Cox KK etc had achieved a few seasons earlier, this time we had no Beardsleys, waddles etc to come through, we had Darren Jackson michael Oneil etc, getting quinn and Mcghee may have paper over a few cracks, but fact is we were a second div team, and thats where we were until the takeover. Looking back those 10 yeras 82-92 absolutely amazing in the history of the club, got to be one of the most exciting and frustrating decades in our recent history. We went from nowt to been one of the most talked about teams in england, back to been nowt, and finally back to been popular again. SKy has helped, and the whole change in people's attitudes to football, whether it was planned by hall, shep etc or not, but we just on onto the prem bandwagon in time, another season or two in the second div and we would be with the sheff weds and nottingham forests. All imo like :winking: I agree with most of that, I would rather have kept Gazza than those 4, I don't think he would have had his problems if he'd stayed here, a big mistake on his part.

It's an interesting and important subject when done the right way, it can be done without any vitriol, end of the day we all want the same, our name on a bloody trophy, now. It was a good post by Bob, and is obviously what I've been saying for ages and also without vitriol, as I think you'll agree even if some others won't. I think you've highlighted something here ........ I don't want to argue with you on this, but this is fine for people who became old enough to start supporting the club around the time SJH took over, but it doesn't wash with anybody who was supporting the club during those shite times though. That's obviously where we'll differ. You also said......... I don't recall the turnstile price when I first started going to matches in 1968, but I remember my first season ticket cost me £9 for the old stand paddock in 1973. I understand that the club was taking less revenue than they do today, but can you explain to me why that should have placed the club at a disadvantage in comparison to other clubs of that same time period, all of which would have been charging similar admission prices? I have to ask this, but do you think that Newcastle is the only club taking in more money now than it did in those earlier years? No, of course not. All clubs had exactly the same opportunity to generate money. If anything, given our larger potential support, I'd say we had a greater opportunity than some others. The problem is that potential has to be tapped but it wasn't until SJH took over. If other clubs were taking in more money it would have been because they were attracting larger attendances. Why do you think other clubs were attracting larger attendances than Newcastle? I do agree you made some good posts and have said so at times. The way I feel we were at a disadvantage, and I'm going into something that I can't recite chapter and verse here. Is that clubs like Man U, Sheff Wed, Boro, Mackems and others were given grants to develop grounds for the world cup, we didn't get those, I’m sure it was because we didn’t own the ground. If we had of been given grants for the world cup then we wouldn’t have had to spend money on the East Stand, that could have gone on players. I would love to have been able to see the clubs accounts for the 70’s and 80’s to see where our money went. I remember going to Keegans debut and we were supposed to have 36,000 in the ground and people were almost getting crushed, I went to a game a few weeks later and the crowd was given as 34,000’ish and I had plenty of room. A lot of people thought the directors were creaming money from the gate receipts; I have no idea if this was the case, or, that a couple of thousand could make a big difference.

It's an interesting and important subject when done the right way, it can be done without any vitriol, end of the day we all want the same, our name on a bloody trophy, now.

I wouldn't disagree with much of that in reality, it contains a lot of sense, good post. No, I wouldn't rather see us go up and down, I guess like you and every other Newcastle supporter, I'd rather we were at the top and winning everything, I can still dream. I just don't think we've made the most of the situation we found ourselves in, yes we could have done worse, we could also have done better. Being 5th best over a decade is no consolation when we are 14th or 11th and 13th for two seasons in a row, it's no consolation when we have an idiot like Souness managing our club. Maybe we've been spoiled to a certain extent under Sir John and Keegan and I know that may sound like a crazy statement to make about Newcastle. I guess the difference between love and hate is as close as some people try to make out.

Hall did save the club, yes he was helped by Shepherd and quite a few others, that doesn't make Shepherd immune from criticism now, that doesn't mean that we aren't going backwards, I can't see how anybody can argue that we are not going backwards. Performances on the field have been lower than that while Sir John was at the club and we're the brunt of most other clubs jokes because of poor publicity, something we had under Sir John but not to the extent that we've had under Shepherd. Shepherd took over when we were 2nd in the league, the highest position under him is 3rd and the worst 14th, unfortunate but true. I know he’s not the worst in the world, he’s not the best either, far from it. I compare him to his predecessor because as far as I’m concerned they are on level playing field as far as cash within the club is concerned. I know we’ve had times when the club could have done more under previous chairman to push on and build on something and they didn’t but as it was a closed shop as far as accounts and such things go then we can’t really say why that was the case back then. I know in the 60’s we had the world cup in England and a lot of clubs were given grants to upgrade stadiums, we weren’t given them and I think the reason was because our club didn’t own the land that the ground was built on, it was something like that at least. The club won the Fairs Cup and some think that they didn't build on that, you need to remember that we built the East Stand at a time when football wasn't cash rich like it is today. I remember paying something like 12 1/2p to watch Newcastle in 1974, I remember it because after the Forrest game we were forced to pay the full adult entrance fee, it went up to 25p to stand in the Leazes if my memory is correct, it could have been 25p to 50p, maybe you remember better than I do. Gate receipts would have struggled to get to £50,000 even with 40,000 in the ground. That's a long way from what we take today, that's a hell of a disadvantage for the board of that time. Anyway, I’ve made up my mind on his performance so far, it could change if things change for the better, just like it could change for you if things got worse.

I didn't say you did mention England internationals, I did. I mentioned England because of the reference to KK, no other reason. That wasn't what I responed to, I responded to what I had in the quotes. We didn't usually have the resuorces or the media spotlight to buy players of Duffs calibre before Sir John, not on a regular basis, I agree. How many people complained when we signed the bloke who scored a wonder goal for Brazil against England? How many complained when we bought Thorn, Bessant etc? I can't remember many but I do remember thousands wearing the replica Brazil top with Mirandinha on the front. I didn't have a stake in the club, I never have had one other than paying for a season ticket or paying at the turnstile, why? I did pledge to buy shares the first time Sir John tried to float the club but it went no further than that. SO you did or you didnt know that Shepherd had a stke in NUFC, before Hall, and before the whole takeover saga started??? I can't remember hearing about Shepherd having a stake before Sir John, I don't see any relevance anyway, one way or the other.

I didn't say you did mention England internationals, I did. I mentioned England because of the reference to KK, no other reason. That wasn't what I responed to, I responded to what I had in the quotes. We didn't usually have the resuorces or the media spotlight to buy players of Duffs calibre before Sir John, not on a regular basis, I agree. How many people complained when we signed the bloke who scored a wonder goal for Brazil against England? How many complained when we bought Thorn, Bessant etc? I can't remember many but I do remember thousands wearing the replica Brazil top with Mirandinha on the front. I didn't have a stake in the club, I never have had one other than paying for a season ticket or paying at the turnstile, why? I did pledge to buy shares the first time Sir John tried to float the club but it went no further than that.

We didn't have many England internationals, the ones we had were usually from Wales, Ireland and Scotland.

I see, I've thrown my dummy out, how? Bobby was spat on by some idiots for dropping Keegan for the Denmark game, Keegan was pissed off because Bobby hadn't phoned him, Keegan found out through the press and didn't like it. I've got nothing to admit about the spitting as I've never said it didn't happen and I've never said that Robson came to see his captain make his debut for his home town club, stop lying. All I've said is that we signed the England captain which you initially seemed to dispute because it doesn't suit your argument, we did sign the England captain, Keegan was the captain of England the day he signed for Newcastle- Fact.

In my opinion the most important signing in my time as a Newcastle supporter was the England captain Kevin Keegan, that happened long before Hall and Shepherd. and where did I say duff is the most important signing?? KK was an amazing signing, but was only ever coming to end his career, it was an amazing time to watch the team then, but wasnt built on. Oh and he was an EX england captain when we signed him Keegan wasn't an ex captain when we signed him, he played his first game for us against QPR on 28th August 1982, Bobby dropped him for his first game as manager against Denmark on 22nd September 1982, I think. No signing since Keegan has really been built on now that you mention it, at least to a certain degree, the Keegan signing isn't unique for that. That could all change of course. tripe. As usual. He announced his squad in the summer before the season started, and Keegan was missing. He learned about being left out in the press, which was the reason he was abused at SJP and Keegan never spoke to him afterwards for a long time. If you had read the last posts properly you wouldn't have made yourself look such an arse. http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/6497/yawndonkeypw7.jpg http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamMgr/Mgr_Robson.html Appointed manager 7 July 1982 effective September 1982; resigned following 1990 World Cup. grasping at straws, he dropped him from his first squad and he never played for England again. Fact. You haven't read or understood the above posts by myself and Bob have you So it's now "grasping at straws" because you've been proven wrong, quite funny considering I was supposed to have "made yourself look such an arse". Am I right in thinking that the shoe is on the other foot now and maybe you've made yourself look like an arse? Also quite funny that further up the thread you had a go because I hadn't replied to something after 14 minutes then you take something like 13 hours. who's wrong. Keegan never played for England again after signing for Newcastle. Fact or not ? You didn't know Bobby Robson was abused at Keegans debut did you ? Why was that do you think ? See the bold bits in blue, son. Where did I say that I didn't know that Bobby was abused/spat on? That's just you trying to change history and make it look as it we hadn't signed the England captain, Keegan was captain the day he signed - Fact. It's not my problem that you've got yourself into a corner and are now trying to get out of it. I've never tried to make out that he played for England while at Newcastle, you've tried to make it look as if he wasn't the captain when we signed him, you said that my post about him being the captain was tripe and you're wrong it was a fact.

In my opinion the most important signing in my time as a Newcastle supporter was the England captain Kevin Keegan, that happened long before Hall and Shepherd. and where did I say duff is the most important signing?? KK was an amazing signing, but was only ever coming to end his career, it was an amazing time to watch the team then, but wasnt built on. Oh and he was an EX england captain when we signed him Keegan wasn't an ex captain when we signed him, he played his first game for us against QPR on 28th August 1982, Bobby dropped him for his first game as manager against Denmark on 22nd September 1982, I think. No signing since Keegan has really been built on now that you mention it, at least to a certain degree, the Keegan signing isn't unique for that. That could all change of course. tripe. As usual. He announced his squad in the summer before the season started, and Keegan was missing. He learned about being left out in the press, which was the reason he was abused at SJP and Keegan never spoke to him afterwards for a long time. If you had read the last posts properly you wouldn't have made yourself look such an arse. http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/6497/yawndonkeypw7.jpg http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamMgr/Mgr_Robson.html Appointed manager 7 July 1982 effective September 1982; resigned following 1990 World Cup. grasping at straws, he dropped him from his first squad and he never played for England again. Fact. You haven't read or understood the above posts by myself and Bob have you So it's now "grasping at straws" because you've been proven wrong, quite funny considering I was supposed to have "made yourself look such an arse". Am I right in thinking that the shoe is on the other foot now and maybe you've made yourself look like an arse? Also quite funny that further up the thread you had a go because I hadn't replied to something after 14 minutes then you take something like 13 hours.

In my opinion the most important signing in my time as a Newcastle supporter was the England captain Kevin Keegan, that happened long before Hall and Shepherd. and where did I say duff is the most important signing?? KK was an amazing signing, but was only ever coming to end his career, it was an amazing time to watch the team then, but wasnt built on. Oh and he was an EX england captain when we signed him Keegan wasn't an ex captain when we signed him, he played his first game for us against QPR on 28th August 1982, Bobby dropped him for his first game as manager against Denmark on 22nd September 1982, I think. No signing since Keegan has really been built on now that you mention it, at least to a certain degree, the Keegan signing isn't unique for that. That could all change of course. tripe. As usual. He announced his squad in the summer before the season started, and Keegan was missing. He learned about being left out in the press, which was the reason he was abused at SJP and Keegan never spoke to him afterwards for a long time. If you had read the last posts properly you wouldn't have made yourself look such an arse. http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/6497/yawndonkeypw7.jpg http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamMgr/Mgr_Robson.html Appointed manager 7 July 1982 effective September 1982; resigned following 1990 World Cup.

In my opinion the most important signing in my time as a Newcastle supporter was the England captain Kevin Keegan, that happened long before Hall and Shepherd. Shame Gazza, Beardsley, Waddle and subsequent relegation didn't agree with you. Not to mention knocking on the door of the old 3rd division later again. Canny opportunity eh, what happened to moving forward from that platform ? Remind yourself where we were when he signed Mick, assuming you really were there. What do you think of today, still harking for the old pre-Shepherd and Hall days ? http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4966/hippoyawncm2.th.jpg

In my opinion the most important signing in my time as a Newcastle supporter was the England captain Kevin Keegan, that happened long before Hall and Shepherd. and where did I say duff is the most important signing?? KK was an amazing signing, but was only ever coming to end his career, it was an amazing time to watch the team then, but wasnt built on. Oh and he was an EX england captain when we signed him Keegan wasn't an ex captain when we signed him, he played his first game for us against QPR on 28th August 1982, Bobby dropped him for his first game as manager against Denmark on 22nd September 1982, I think. No signing since Keegan has really been built on now that you mention it, at least to a certain degree, the Keegan signing isn't unique for that. That could all change of course.

In my opinion the most important signing in my time as a Newcastle supporter was the England captain Kevin Keegan, that happened long before Hall and Shepherd.

There was 5 or 6 posts deleted earlier Dave. I deleted some of my own posts because the thread was turning to shit, I wasn't asked to delete them, I did it off my own back to try and stop the bickering, it doesn't seem to have worked. I can't say I can see any others that have gone.