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We'll finish ahead of Everton next season. We don't need their best plyaers because they are shite. Maybe they'l buy our cast offs at an inflated fee. That's how I see it. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. At this moment of time, they're in 5th place and we're in 12th. Granted, we've run into some good form lately but we've hardly played the top teams, have we? They, however, have played well against nearly every team in the league and have just recently gained some experience playing in Europe (and will be playing there again next year). All the signs are good for Everton. A new stadium (soon-ish), the probability of increased revenue, another year in Europe, more stability with the squad/manager - all things that point to a better future for them. And this without mentioning the quality of the squad that Moyes has assembled, our squad at the moment and of course how Everton have been one of the most consistent teams this season (okay, maybe I've mentioned this but it's worth repeating). Would you like to back up your claim that we'll finish in the top 5 (because that's what it'll take to beat Everton) next season with some tangible evidence? The way I see it, the only thing that Everton seriously lacks is big money. But, because Moyes has spent well recently and doesn't need a major overhaul, they're not that far off from challenging the top 4 and I expect them to push on next season (again). Edit.. worth mentioning that.. Yakubu > anything we have up front Arteta/Cahill > better than our midfield Lescott > anything we have at the CB position Howard > our two GKs atm

Sadly Metzelder peaked about 5 years ago. Shameful for a 27 year old but since the '02 WC, he's never regained his form and has suffered from countless injuries. Just not worth it imo although it must be said, he could easily turn into a 'Boro Woodgate' for us (i.e. recovers from long-term injuries to be good once again). But, if we do have money to burn, then there'll be better (and still realistic) targets out there.

Depressing thread

According to Guillem he'd never be accepted at Barca due to the brand of football his sides play. That's bullshit though. His Valencia side played the kind of football that Arsenal do. And he's got two La Liga titles to show for it as well.

Exactly. Many times this season our players seemed despondent and even accepted their fate. Contrast that with Arsenal, who knew that they had to score 2 to win on Saturday to have any chance at a title, yet they never gave up. Developing that mentality will be key for us in the long run.

Thought Song looked good today btw. Another talent there. He reminds me of early-days Toure in that he's a bit unsure and seems dodgy but is able to clean up his own mess with good positioning/anticipation, but obviously this is only off this one match so small sample size issues apply here.

You stole that from my head while I was typing, didn't you?

Clichy is the last of their worries IMO, very good player. He's fuking lucky. Rescued constantly by two excellent CB's next to him. He's nowhere near as good as Sagna for me. Don't get me wrong, i'd love to have Clichy here, but for a side trying to win titles i think he comes up a bit short. Not a player who really gets punished for his mistakes, but invites pressure on himself far too often. He's only a kid though, no doubt it will iron out within the next few years, but that is typical of Arsenal right now, plenty of youth in touching distance of being fully reliable. I'd agree with this assessment of Clichy. He invites pressure onto himself and seems to fall asleep at random times during a game. But, as you say, he's still very young and has a lot of potential. Gallas has been quite disappointing lately as well. I know he's quality and all but he's not 'stepping up' in the way that you'd expect a central defender and a captain to. A new CB, GK, striker and just hope for better luck next year with injuries is probably the best Arsene can do. They're certainly up there in their ability to create chances and seem destined to win the title up until Clichy's gaffe against Birmingham.

God I hate the cunts. As usual Ronaldo shows up when it matters most What a cunt he is though for show-boating at the end of the game - you did fuck all you fucking cunt, pass it someone who deserves to bask in whatever 'glory' you thought you were basking in. Adebayor was disappointing again. First touch let him down on many occasions and Arsenal really needed him to bury a couple of those first half chances. In the end, the difference between the two is just the finishing; Arsenal were dominant in the first half and passed the ball better throughout the whole game imo, so they're not that far off at all. Spend, Arsene, please.

I do think Arsenal now have to spend some big money in the summer. They've just got to because even though their first team fits quite well, the lack of depth in the squad (ever since Eduardo's injury) has been evidenced for all to see. They've still got an excellent and young squad but when van Persie went down, they suffered a bit, Rosicky's been injured all season, then Eduardo went down and they've really suffered from that. Edit - tiredness has also been a factor recently.

Thought there'd be more goals in this one but I would have taken the point before the game began. Not a bad result and another clean sheet as well

Which 6m man will open their Premiership account first? Nugent or Smith?

We're going to nick a goal here.

Come on.

I don't think he'd need to be a proven Premiership striker at all. That's limiting our options for no reason. I think there are actually quite a few players better than Owen, and a good striker who can pass the ball will be able to fit into KK's team so I don't think Premiership-proven counts for, or should count for, much. I don't 'need' is the correct term here; there are countless examples of players coming from other countries and making an impact, and since I don't rate Owen that much, even the initial impact doesn't need to be overwhelming. I think this is a risk worth taking. We just need to scout 'em properly so we don't end up with duds like Luque

That was an excellent performance by Villa. Talking about firing on all your cylinders and all that, that 90 mins was pretty much it.

Errr.. Resale value of Michael Owen in 2012: 1M Resale value of talented player deemed worth 12M in 2008 after 4 more years of development in 2012: ? I´m off the opinion that there are players out there that would offer us more than Owen does at the moment and would make more sense economically as well. They represent slight gambles, and you don´t know whether they would come here unless you tried, but it´s not a given in my opinion that keeping an ageing and degressing player on over the top wages makes financial sense.. That's fair enough but I don't really care about resale values; if they're doing the business why would we want to sell them? It's like saying 'let's replace Beye now because in three years time we won't be able to sell him for much' - who cares? BTW £12m was a conservative estimate. Who would we get for that, Crouch? Dave, that is conservative to try and keep the discussion going, i think both you and i know that Owens replacement would cost 20mil+, so i am definately in the KEEP camp. Jesus, I'm all for a bit reasoning and you know, disagreements don't need to be settled and all, but 20m?? Are you serious? Just think of what Owen actually offers us and see if whether that's worth 20m; it blatantly doesn't. If the economics doesn't really matter then I think there are loads of strikers out there who can replace Owen on the field (i.e. footballing ability-wise).

Dave, that's a really good argument about why we should keep him, and I guess that's the best reason - economics - but, the key question is whether that 12m can get us something better than Owen. I'd say yes for what Owen's currently offering on the field but probably no for what he offers off of it.

Because this season he's been shite in Allardyce's 4-3-3, 4-4-2 and KK's 4-4-2. This is evidence from THIS season, not something like 5 years ago when he still had his legs. Personally, the only on-field attribute that Owen possesses that is above-average (or better) is his movement and ability to keep possession. Otherwise, the aspects of his game that we paid 17m for, the aspects that critics lauded him for and the aspects that made him so lethal years ago have pretty much all but disappeared/become useless - his pace, his movement around the box and his 'clinical' finishing. His movement's still there, no doubt, but how often, as a team, do we get him into the box in a 4-4-2? From 15+ games this season, I'd say not enough to warrant playing him up there when he had someone more dynamic like Martins on the bench. Presumably those will be the neutrals and analysts that hardly watch our games then, am I right? He's not our 'best' player. He's our big draw, the big name, the captain etc. but not our best player. I really don't know who our best player is btw, since we've had a few different MotMs in our recent wins. Shows how well we're playing as a team and how this nonsense about Owen scoring = us changing our fortunes is true. Martins. I don't remember if a poll has been constructed here asking this question but I'd say that Martins is one player whom, if missing, would force us to play another style. He's the key in the 4-3-3 because he stretches defences, opens up the space in the middle for our midfield and for Owen to drop in, enables us to play a counter-attacking game (who else has pace in the team atm?), can do things with the ball that most of our players can't and he's shown that he's got a goals in him as well.

I think what Keegan means by team player is not only for Zoggy to stop being selfish and actually pass the ball, but more that he needs to track back and seriously develop his game defensively as well as that's the only way he's going to get into the midfield 3 atm.

Theo's run Owen's goal against the Argies Henry's goal against Liverpool at Highbury (4-2, he got a hat-trick iirc) Shevchenko's goal against Juve (1-0 victory ages ago) Gerrard against West Ham in the last minute Letchkov against the Germans in '94 Lots more actually - it's why I love football so much

Oh man Luca Toni you crazy motherfucker. I feel bad for the keeper, the second goal was especially costly because it came out of nowhere and gave Bayern a massive lift with something like 4 minutes remaining. Getafe were actually pretty awesome last night, played 'carpet' football, movement was quite superb all round and most of their players were excellent on the ball. Looked like a really capable team.

Ribery scores with 1 minute left. My god, Getafe were oh so nearly there. 1-1 and probably heading into extra-time now.

Owen's only good in the 4-3-3, and actually, that's not even conclusive considering we've only played that formation for 4 games at the tail end of a season. Not trying to demean our performances so far but we've played two not-so-good teams at home and a Tottenham team playing quite a few players out of position. Hardly signs that we can challenge for the top 6/8 next season. But anyway, my point is that Owen does not deserve to be paid £100k/week. He's not our best player, not the most important player in our current formation and I think is easily replaceable with someone who'll be more versatile and thus more valuable on the whole. Just consider that if Owen plays, we have to play with a 4-3-3 or else his usefulness is reduced to the sum total of fuck all. Is that the kind of trait that a so-called 'best' player should have? Should we be locked into someone who's only effective in one position and one formation? Is that someone really worth paying £100k/week to? Bear in mind that players like Rooney, Ronaldo and Fabregas reportedly earns less or similar to this. And of course, his atrocious injury record hasn't even been mentioned. Throughout his entire career, he has picked up little niggling injuries, and has yet to score 20 league goals in a season EVER. There's no evidence to support the claim that he's 'over' it. Frankly, I'd rather we sell him in the summer because his value might be at the highest it'll ever be right now, someone will be willing to pay money for his so-called 'lethal' finishing, and at least KK won't have to be locked into playing one formation all season because our captain is shit in every other one.

Jesus, Braulio takes the ball around Kahn and has an empty goal but slips! Would have been 2-0 and almost game over for Bayern.