Unbelievable

as i said earlier english players are overrated by the media and casual fans but those who know their football tend to do the opposite and over-criticise them 'terry is s****, totally out of his depth' ' lampard is fat & f***ing woeful' and so on. im guilty of that myself. i also don't see english fans bigging up mediocre players like marlon harewood or darius vassel the same way egyptians blather on about mido, for one example. When you look at player valuations, asking prices and transfer fees it's not difficult to see why English players are (quite literally) overrated. Except for the very best English players it is quite easy to find a cheaper and better alternative abroad. What you're referring to is how players are rated subjectively. In the subjective sense players tend to be either bigged up or slagged down in a very black and white way, just like C. Ronaldo is now. He was shit before, practically enemy of the state, now everybody seems to want to make babies with him..

Fine, I will shut up about it. Hoping for Croatia and Poland wins tomorrow..

Which experts would those be? Anyway, it's rubbish. We have never had a squad with this many young, technical football players. In fact, I'd say the weak link in our attacking play is Van Nistelrooij, and we would be better off playing with Huntelaar, as he is more technical as well. Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben, Van Persie and Huntelaar and one controlling midfield player and we would be unplayable for most defenses in this competition. Our attackers in the 70's weren't that great; it was the midfielders who stood out, especially Cruyff and Van Hanegem. The 80's were poor by all accounts, except for '88 and Van Basten, but you may be surprised Van Basten wasn't considered to be a first team player at the start of the competition. The 90's were good, mainly because of Bergkamp, Van Basten (first half of the decade) and Kluivert (second half of the decade), but I do think we have some exceptional players at this point in time. Shame some are so injury prone, especially Robben and Van Persie.. Numerous elder statesmen in the Dutch game. Was in FourFourTwo. Oh right, some grey heads saying everything was better back then; I'm convinced.. The reality is that football has progressed a lot since then (especially physically), and most players from back then couldn't lace the shoes of many current players (if you put them in the team now the way they were then that is and obviously excluding a few exceptional players). Most players smoked in the 70´s for a start..

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow. Kuyt is rubbish. Nothing but a workhorse. Van Persie and van Nistelrooy are the only strikers I can think of who've come over from the Dutch league and done the business. there was this fella called bergkamp...... came here from Serie A Right, that obviously disqualifies him as a player who came from a so called lesser footballing country and made a name for himself abroad.. go to bed. Will do.. Doesn't change the fact that these arguments of people coming from the lesser footballing countries often being overrated (more so than players from England) or strikers coming from the Dutch league often failing to impress abroad are both nonsense.. not really. some strikers from the dutch league who score ridiculous amounts of goals come over here and find it hard to get goals. it does seem to be a very easy league in which to score. let's just say i hope we don't sign shota arveladze, robin nelisse and gerald sibon this summer. as for the original point, wullie is spot on. you think the turkish fans who came on here when we played fener or when Tuncay was linked to us were being reasonable when they made posts like 'tuncay gonna rip you open, he's far too good for newcastle, if he leaves it will be to man utd or real madrid, one of europes best players etc etc'. we've had similar comments with Emre when he first arrived, and even WORSE when fatty Mido was linked to us. i'm not so sure there's english fans trawling the net telling overseas fans that James Milner and Marlon Harewood (comparable players to the ones mentioned) are off to Barca and AC MIlan and going to win the world cup for us. Robin Nelisse has never scored bucketloads and is mediocre, even in the Dutch league, Sibon is a fairly good player but has never been spectacular, and Arveladze was a very good player at that level. Apart from Sibon these players have never set foot in England afaik, so doesn't really answer my question. One player I can imagine you may refer to is Kezman and you would be right he has been dissapointing since he moved away from PSV. However, he is also disappointing in another "lesser league". However, I don't think you can dismiss that some of the best strikers in the world in the past decade(s) have come through the Dutch league (Ronaldo, Romario, Van Nistelrooij, Bergkamp) so I will keep dismissing the idea that players of other leagues are overrated more so than their English counterparts. If any, it's English players that are regularly overrated and more importantly overpriced.

Which experts would those be? Anyway, it's rubbish. We have never had a squad with this many young, technical football players. In fact, I'd say the weak link in our attacking play is Van Nistelrooij, and we would be better off playing with Huntelaar, as he is more technical as well. Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben, Van Persie and Huntelaar and one controlling midfield player and we would be unplayable for most defenses in this competition. Our attackers in the 70's weren't that great; it was the midfielders who stood out, especially Cruyff and Van Hanegem. The 80's were poor by all accounts, except for '88 and Van Basten, but you may be surprised Van Basten wasn't considered to be a first team player at the start of the competition. The 90's were good, mainly because of Bergkamp, Van Basten (first half of the decade) and Kluivert (second half of the decade), but I do think we have some exceptional players at this point in time. Shame some are so injury prone, especially Robben and Van Persie..

Scotland could claim the same thing tbh. You have a fabulous sense of humour..

That may be so, but if so it will be in big part because of the opposition in the group. I mean, both World Cup finalists ffs. With opposition such as on show tonight or tomorrow we would walk the first round, and I seriously believe we have one of the best attacks in the competition. The defence is a concern though..

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow. Kuyt is rubbish. Nothing but a workhorse. Van Persie and van Nistelrooy are the only strikers I can think of who've come over from the Dutch league and done the business. there was this fella called bergkamp...... came here from Serie A Right, that obviously disqualifies him as a player who came from a so called lesser footballing country and made a name for himself abroad.. go to bed. Will do.. Doesn't change the fact that these arguments of people coming from the lesser footballing countries often being overrated (more so than players from England) or strikers coming from the Dutch league often failing to impress abroad are both nonsense..

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow. Kuyt is rubbish. Nothing but a workhorse. Van Persie and van Nistelrooy are the only strikers I can think of who've come over from the Dutch league and done the business. there was this fella called bergkamp...... came here from Serie A Right, that obviously disqualifies him as a player who came from a so called lesser footballing country and made a name for himself abroad..

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow. Kuyt is rubbish. Nothing but a workhorse. Van Persie and van Nistelrooy are the only strikers I can think of who've come over from the Dutch league and done the business. You may want to look up Van Basten, Kluivert, Mackaay and a few others on wikipedia, or are you talking about the Premiership, in which case I'd include Robben who transformed Chelsea in his first two campaigns, and Bergkamp of course, unless you think he was s***..? All in all, I can't believe we are even debating the quality of Dutch strikers when I look at what England can muster in that position.. Christ. All I was saying is that the likes of Kuyt, Kezman scored a million goals in Holland but went elsewhere and have struggle. They performed well in a lesser league. Players move clubs. Sometimes they do well at their new club, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they are not suited to a particular league, and rip another league apart. I was taking offence to the lesser footballing country reference, and that players from these so called lesser leagues were bigged up unjustly. I think a player can be praised for how well he did in a particular league. If he moves clubs and fails, be it in the same country or another, that doesn't make him a shit player. I'll refer to Shevschenko for example; for years he was considered the best striker in the world. Is he shit, or has he always been shit, just because things don't seem to work out for him at Chelsea? The world of football doesn't end with the Premiership you know..

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow. Kuyt is rubbish. Nothing but a workhorse. Van Persie and van Nistelrooy are the only strikers I can think of who've come over from the Dutch league and done the business. You may want to look up Van Basten, Kluivert, Mackaay and a few others on wikipedia, or are you talking about the Premiership, in which case I'd include Robben who transformed Chelsea in his first two campaigns, and Bergkamp of course, unless you think he was shit..? All in all, I can't believe we are even debating the quality of Dutch strikers when I look at what England can muster in that position..

did really well for Boro after the initial first few months of adjusting. but he always looks incredibly raw to me, like an 18 year old kid needing to work on his technique and tactical awareness. My Smog mate really doesn't rate him at all. He's scored a few good/important goals for them but he never has above about a 7/10 when I've seen him. Just goes to show how far overrated some players can be when they come from lesser footballing countries (but then we already knew that). Like from England you mean..? No. Oh, sorry. Could have fooled me seeing as one country has qualified and the other hasn't.. I'm quite clearly talking about the quality of the league. Unless you think the Turkish league is as strong as the Premiership? That's fair enough then. So by footballing country you mean the league, including foreign players..? In that case Holland (and Turkey as well) is a s*** footballing country, you're right, but I think that defintion is very debatable.. Semantics tbh. I probably could have phrased it better. Ok Wullie, will let it be.. I was impressed with Portugal. I have always thought they needed an out-and-out striker, and they still lack a top class striker many other teams have, but they have so many people in midfield running forward and capable of scoring a goal I fear they are in with a real chance to win this time. I also think they look stronger now they have shedded some of their older players (Figo etc)..

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow.

did really well for Boro after the initial first few months of adjusting. but he always looks incredibly raw to me, like an 18 year old kid needing to work on his technique and tactical awareness. My Smog mate really doesn't rate him at all. He's scored a few good/important goals for them but he never has above about a 7/10 when I've seen him. Just goes to show how far overrated some players can be when they come from lesser footballing countries (but then we already knew that). Like from England you mean..? No. Oh, sorry. Could have fooled me seeing as one country has qualified and the other hasn't.. I'm quite clearly talking about the quality of the league. Unless you think the Turkish league is as strong as the Premiership? That's fair enough then. So by footballing country you mean the league, including foreign players..? In that case Holland (and Turkey as well) is a shit footballing country, you're right, but I think that defintion is very debatable..

I'd be interested in knowing who..? Can't have been Van Nistelrooij, Kluivert, Bergkamp, Robben, Van Persie, Babel, Kuyt, Hasselbaink and the likes.

did really well for Boro after the initial first few months of adjusting. but he always looks incredibly raw to me, like an 18 year old kid needing to work on his technique and tactical awareness. My Smog mate really doesn't rate him at all. He's scored a few good/important goals for them but he never has above about a 7/10 when I've seen him. Just goes to show how far overrated some players can be when they come from lesser footballing countries (but then we already knew that). Like from England you mean..? No. Oh, sorry. Could have fooled me seeing as one country has qualified and the other hasn't..

did really well for Boro after the initial first few months of adjusting. but he always looks incredibly raw to me, like an 18 year old kid needing to work on his technique and tactical awareness. My Smog mate really doesn't rate him at all. He's scored a few good/important goals for them but he never has above about a 7/10 when I've seen him. Just goes to show how far overrated some players can be when they come from lesser footballing countries (but then we already knew that). Like from England you mean..?

Good goal Portugal..

Should have been a red tbf

Anyway, all this is for another time, back to the match.. Turkey could have scored..

sounds like a t*** tbh Why, because you don't like his opinion? We are widely perceived as a graveyard club in Europe unfortunately.. if an english commentator said similar unprovoked comments about a foreign club i'd think it was a stupid thing to say. i don't even agree with it, and emre's problems here have been 100% down to him, not the club. i dont care if morons who know little about us think we are a 'graveyard' to be perfectly honest. most english people who know f*** all about us and get their opinions from tv or from the papers think our defence has been s*** for 15 years and that is a similar, unfounded stereotype. anyway, pepe scores for real this time. What do you mean by unprovoked? It certainly isn't unfounded, and I believe it is also pretty relevant as this is the image that our club has abroad, which obviously influences our ability to get foreign players in.. Anyway, as you say, good goal. How come we managed to attract Beye last summer then, & Cacapa (to a lesser extent). Graveyard club, who more seasons that not play in Europe. The rest of the clubs in this country must have a shocking reputation. It's not me saying this, it's the commentator on Dutch television. It's the way we are perceived abroad, like it or not. I get a lot of ridicule these days for supporting Newcastle, mainly because of our uncanny ability to turn good players into shit players, and our spending compared to our achievements. Other clubs have other reputations, i.e. Chelsea a club that bought success, Arsenal a club that buy and nurture talented youngsters, etc. A lot of clubs people are just indifferent about, but not us, we actually have a pretty bad reputation at the moment, and it won't make things easier for us.

So, who else is on your scouting list this match?

sounds like a t*** tbh Why, because you don't like his opinion? We are widely perceived as a graveyard club in Europe unfortunately.. if an english commentator said similar unprovoked comments about a foreign club i'd think it was a stupid thing to say. i don't even agree with it, and emre's problems here have been 100% down to him, not the club. i dont care if morons who know little about us think we are a 'graveyard' to be perfectly honest. most english people who know f*** all about us and get their opinions from tv or from the papers think our defence has been s*** for 15 years and that is a similar, unfounded stereotype. anyway, pepe scores for real this time. What do you mean by unprovoked? It certainly isn't unfounded, and I believe it is also pretty relevant as this is the image that our club has abroad, which obviously influences our ability to get foreign players in.. Anyway, as you say, good goal.

Bloody hell. Brazilian class..

Aurelio is class in defensive midfield for Turkey..