Unbelievable

Based on what? A relegation campaign where he was ordinary at best, or the few run-outs he's had at Arsenal where he's been found wanting? Poor footballer who if he was on the books at Charlton or Fulham, nobody would go near him. Nut, I think this might be an interesting read for you: http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=476901&CPID=8&clid=3&lid=1490&title=Wenger's+right-back+collection

And now for the core question of this thread, do you KNOW this for a FACT or are you, as I suspect, just PRESUMING..? Yes - I'm PRESUMING - just as I'm PRESUMING that the sun will come up tomorrow..! None of us know that for a fact, but its a reasonable assumption - just as reasonable as assuming that a VERY successful modern businessman, who has just paid a king's ransom for a football club with prospects, will allow his managers to do the job themselves - failure to do so will result in the sack but I am willing to bet that Ashley WILL allow Allardyce a crack of the whip...its a matter of personal opinion whether you think he will be better than Shepherd - I happen to think he WILL, but you, of course, are entitled to your own opinion - WHICH IS...! I don't have an opinion, but we've not been given much to base an opinion on, which is my point really. A lot of people put a lot of faith in Ashley because he's made a lot of money. In one of the very few articles I have read about him that contained quotes from the very media-shy man himself he admitted to having made bad errors of judgement with the floating of his company, mainly due to the lack of having wanted to do everything himself rather than leaving communication and public relations to the professionals. I would think more fans of this football club would want some assurance that he has learned his lesson, and would want to know how he sees NUFC as a part of his business portfolio. I have read discussions here in the past in which people were all complimenting Barcelona and Schalke on the way the clubs were run, almost as a democracy and certainly with respect to and input from the fans. As it stands, with Ashley we seem to be at the complete opposite of the scale, yet people are happily giving him the benefit of the doubt just because we were so desparate to get Shepherd out, it can't be any worse.. I don't share this optimism yet, not until I see or hear what the plan is anyway. which I think is a more sensible and cautious approach..

And now for the core question of this thread, do you KNOW this for a FACT or are you, as I suspect, just PRESUMING..? I'd be perfectly justified asking you the exact same thing about your recent complaining posts. I'm not presuming anything.. Just looking for some clarification. Do you agree with Merlin (and with him the majority on here it seems, it's just merlin has made the point very explicitely) that Ashley WILL give Allardyce a free rein, WILL have a more professional approach than the previous chairman and WILL NOT be interested in personal gain as he's already got plenty? Or do you agree with me and a few others that WE DON'T KNOW any of this, and we will either have to wait and see what happens (in which case I reserve the right to question developments that seem contradictory to what most people just presume will happen) or Ashley will have to come out and communicate directly with us about what his intentions are..?

Embarassing, tbh. In your other thread, you were crying that we weren't linked with Deco any more in the papers. Now we're linked with UBERDECO and you're upset about that. You're just a whinger at the moment. Also, it's the NOTW. It's not true. Relax. Yes, you're right.. It's embarassing to ask questions about what´s happening. Real fans can be perfectly happy with the potential signings of such average players as Quedrue and Young one day, than without a second thought indulge in us going after arguably the best football player in the world the next. You´d have to be crazy to find all these rumours strange and wonder what´s really going on behind the scenes.. No need to know what Ashley´s intentions are.. A lot of mindreaders on this forum apparently. Alternatively, maybe... none of them... are true... Rather than accusing me of being a) not a real fan and b) crazy, maybe you should acknowledge that papers are full of s*** and pipe down. Err, I wasn´t accusing anybody of not being real fans or being crazy, just pointing out that if me and a few others were asking for Mr Ashley to come out and make his intentions clear we were being treated like WE were crazy.. I acknowledge the papers are full of shit, but I'd say that's all the more reason for the new owner of the club to communicate with the fans and let us know his intentions. I find it mindboggling that there are so many people who aren't interested in hearing this and have decided to just wait and see what happens without questionning it, even if that means targetting crap one day, and superstars the next..

And now for the core question of this thread, do you KNOW this for a FACT or are you, as I suspect, just PRESUMING..?

Embarassing, tbh. In your other thread, you were crying that we weren't linked with Deco any more in the papers. Now we're linked with UBERDECO and you're upset about that. You're just a whinger at the moment. Also, it's the NOTW. It's not true. Relax. Yes, you're right.. It's embarassing to ask questions about what´s happening. Real fans can be perfectly happy with the potential signings of such average players as Quedrue and Young one day, than without a second thought indulge in us going after arguably the best football player in the world the next. You´d have to be crazy to find all these rumours strange and wonder what´s really going on behind the scenes.. No need to know what Ashley´s intentions are.. A lot of mindreaders on this forum apparently.

Nah, much more to it than that.. It´s not about spending silly money, it´s about targeting and bringing in the players that will take us up a level, rather than Carr and Babayaro Mk II It's the second week in July. Doesn´t really matter when you make bad buys does it? Whether you buy them in May, July or end of August, you have to pay their wages for the full length of the contract also when they are of little value to you anymore (Babayaro and Carr are prime examples in our current squad).. Dave, are you happy with our current transfer targets?

Nah, much more to it than that.. It´s not about spending silly money, it´s about targeting and bringing in the players that will take us up a level, rather than Carr and Babayaro Mk II

It's not like you don't know what his answer will be, isn't it? It's not really relevant anymore either.. Better concern yourself with the question of what Mr Ashley will want to do with this club.

Very much so, but even if we do make it into Europe with this calibre of player they are still going to be holding us back when we try and make the next step up towards where we seemingly want to be.. We need to look for players who are good enough for us now and have the potential to get better as we get closer to fulfilling our supposed ambitions. Baines would fit that mould, as would perhaps Hoyte.. If we make it into Europe we buy a top class left back who is here for the right reasons, bumo Quedrue to back up and Babayaro leaves as his contract will have run out. Sounds like a good plan at first sight but: a) will Quedrue be prepared to be a squad player? b) will buying the "finished article" not be far more expensive and risky than buying a very proming young player now who is available relatively cheaply and can develop along with the club? c) in a year's time, will Quedrue not just be the new Babayaro? Do backup players really need to be older and less motivated than the first team players?

Ajax.. No interest in him currently I believe. Mind, if Ajax can sell Babel for 11,5 million, they won't let Emmanuelson go on the cheap..

Very much so, but even if we do make it into Europe with this calibre of player they are still going to be holding us back when we try and make the next step up towards where we seemingly want to be.. We need to look for players who are good enough for us now and have the potential to get better as we get closer to fulfilling our supposed ambitions. Baines would fit that mould, as would perhaps Hoyte..

Err.. what would our defense (first team and subs) look like? Do you think this would be Premiership standard? If finishing higher is good enough, will 12th do? Is that why we're all so upbeat: we've finished so low last season statistical chances are much bigger we will finish in a higher position?

Possibly not. Personally I think it is possible if we get the right players in, and yes, they are going to cost money. With Roeder we finished 13th. With Allardyce and (hopefully) a fully fit Owen we should be looking at top 10. We're not that far off challenging for Europe, but attracting the players we are currently being linked with will not help to reach that objective. That's why me and a few others are getting a bit restless about what the new owner's plans are with this club. Other clubs are strengthening as well, and are using the extra TV money to fund this. So far, we have hardly opened our wallet, and the way I see it is if we don't invest we probably willl not be in Europe. If that's not where we aim to be, I don't understand why everybody is so over the moon after recent developments, because that's where we were only a few months ago.. Maybe people have been overreacting when things weren't going well this season past (and the one or two before), and as a result are now overly happy at the fact that there is CHANGE, without even questionning if the change is actually for the better or the best we could do..

How many back up DR's do we need?

What are your expectations if I may ask?

Now this is actually quite funny, because your amusement is probably similar to the amusement fans of other clubs get coming on here nowadays.. They probably do find it amusing that a forum is full of moaning c***s when we are at a very exciting phase in the clubs history. Or they actually engage their brain and see that we're not the only club that has been taken over by a billionaire recently, far from it even and at these other clubs money is actually being made available to strengthen the squad. They could see we've just finished 13th, could lose our two best players for a pittance at any moment, yet we talk as if we will challenge for European football next season like it's our godgiven right to do so. They probably know by looking at our state of affairs that it could be done, but a lot of hard work and good decision making will need to take place. They might ask themselves if chasing the likes of Quedrue and Fanni constitute what we need right now and if there is not a bit of a discrepancy between our ambitions and our current actions.. You don't seriously think most football fans of other clubs see us finishing in the top 5 next season at this point in time, do you?

Now this is actually quite funny, because your amusement is probably similar to the amusement fans of other clubs get coming on here nowadays..

What, have you missed the 130 page raveparty that was the `Ashley now owns .. % of NUFC` party, not to mention all the other mainly (as yet) unfounded optimism about our future in his posession? Are you telling me you knew all about Beye, Diarra etc before we became interested? If it would have been Roeder looking at them would you have been as enthousiastic about them possibly joining us? Are you not worried in the slightest that we do not seem to be able to persuade this level of player and now need to resort to the likes of Young and Quedrue? Do you really believe that this level will help us getting back towards the top 4, or could they become a hindrance in very much the same way that average players such as Carr and Babayaro have been a hindrance to us in the recent past?

Or, alternatively: * Allardyce is doing excellent in the transfer window so far. None of these signings could have or would have materialised under our previous managers and chairman * Our squad just needs a bit of finetuning and we'll be right back where we belong. There's plenty of time left to get in what we need and there's no reason for concern when players that we've never heard of until a month ago turn us down * Ashley is God and although we don't know his motives there is no reason for concern as he only wants the best for Newcastle United football club. The facts that he is a businessman in it for the money, he previously owned part of Tottenham Hotspur and has no real feel for the club and region and has not come out once to tell us what he wants with the club are minor details that we won't let ruin the party atmosphere. Anybody questionning this line of reasoning is a moron * Players like Quedrue and Young are exactly what we need right now. The fact that they will hopefully be surplus to requirements and are on the way down careerwise are irrelevant. Rome wasn´t built in a day, so why would we expect better than midtable team players. It´s not like this will keep us from getting back in Europe, is it. Sam can take a turd and turn it into a gold nugget, so no worries.. Thats probably about it, well throw in a fanny/Fanni joke and you are up with current events.

Hit the nail on the head. I couldn't give a crap about prices, it's the quality of players we're (apparently) chasing. Gradually we're after poorer players and that's reason for concern in my book. Are we struggling to attract the players necessary to improve us? Is there no money in the kitty? Why are we looking at midtable players like Young and Queudrue? Young and Queudrue would be very much like the signings of Babayaro and Carr. Indeed. I've said this before and got attacked for it, but I'd like us to at least be linked with some younger players whose best days are in front of them, not behind them. Rather take the risk on them than extremely average players in their late 20s. To be fair though I'd rather we had a decent squad right now then we can bring in the "potential" players. Baines is already a better player than Quedrue is at this point in time however, yet he has the potential to become even better.. That is what we should be looking for in youngsters.. At 6 million he isn't overpriced either..

I don´t think the `fans being fickle` argument is really valid seeing as we are in the aftermath of a major event in our club´s history with Mr Ashley taking over and taking us off the stock market. The club is (almost) completely his now. He can do whatever he wants with it. It's amazing that so little fans have been asking questions about his motives and plans for us. Everybody seems happy enough without much to base that optimism on. Some people are now seeing us target the type and level of player that would have got everybody up in arms when Roeder and Sounness were here. This is leading some of us to ask questions as to what is happening as these players will essentially be tomorrow's dead wood holding us back if we have as ambitious plans as everybody seems to believe.. I don't think this is being fickle, it's being cautious and sensible rather than just joining the party and putting complete faith in people we hardly know..

Why? Some of the best left backs this league has seen, I hadn't heard of or knew little about before they came. Is it too much to ask that our club find one of these? We'll never unearth a top player with this kind of attitudes, that a 28 year old cheap left back becomes available from a club much smaller than ourselves, so we buy him to fill a slot because he's a proven average Premiership player who will 'do a job'. This is how we ended up with Steven Carr. Since the Premierships inception, we've never found a good full back who grew with the club. The closest we came was Bernard but he didn't make it, and that was under a manager who, for all his flaws, saw the potential value in taking chances on certain players and letting them grow with the team. I'm not even convinced Queudreu and Young are better than Babayaro and Carr, just a lot less injury prone. I won't suggest a realistic alternative, I expect my club with its massive resources to find one, or try at the very least. Other clubs manage it. I think there's far too much blind faith in Big Sam at the moment, and I can see the bubble bursting after the transfer window slams shut. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't share all the excitement in the moves we're making. I think calling these moves "sensible" depends on who we are and where we're going - if the objective is club profits then they are very sensible indeed. SAY WHAT?!!! He's right you know. Carr and Babayaro had better pedigree when they came here than Quedrue and Young as far as I am concerned. Both Quedrue and Young were ok a couple of seasons ago, yet their careers seem to have gone the wrong way recently. Much the same as our very own Carr and Babayaro. I can deal with having two of these players here as squad players, not four of them competing for first team football for two crucial positions in our team..

Hit the nail on the head. I couldn't give a crap about prices, it's the quality of players we're (apparently) chasing. Gradually we're after poorer players and that's reason for concern in my book. Are we struggling to attract the players necessary to improve us? Is there no money in the kitty? Why are we looking at midtable players like Young and Queudrue? Young and Queudrue would be very much like the signings of Babayaro and Carr. Prepare for some abuse ohmelads.. You´re not allowed to ask questions or be worried about what´s going on around these parts nowadays..