Yorkie

Me and Mr Optimistic share our love in many more romantic and intimate ways than that, i can tell you now, bitch.

Outscored your record signing tbh.

FUCK OFF WITH YOUR FUCKING CAPITAL FUCKING LOCKS FOR FUCKS SAKE.

mickey martins ? No, Mickey Owen actually.

I'd like Owen to stay, but if one of him or Martins were to leave, i'd rather it be Mickey.

And will remain about a £zillion over-priced.

fuck me. I hope THAT is sarcasm You're just jealous. Baggio's a right smarty pants tbh, he's annoyingly right most of the time.

From the way Owen's played since he's been back from injury I wouldn't get my hope's up about him this season. Jesus Christ. Was that sarcasm? He looks like a player who's lost a yard of pace in the games for us and England, he won't be back to his best. Agree that he probably won't be the Michael Owen of old again, but he hadn't played a football match for something like 15 months before he came back. Jesus Wept.

Baggio, if what you said about Owen wasn't sarcasm, then you need to take a look at yourself mate. I think you're a top poster, arguably the most intelligent on here, but that comment is utter, utter shit.

From the way Owen's played since he's been back from injury I wouldn't get my hope's up about him this season. Jesus Christ. Was that sarcasm?

His touch is shit, i won't deny that. But the guy's got talent - he scored 17 goals in his debut season for a shit English team. Something that is mega different to anything he's ever played in before. He was effectively playing a more offensive position than normal, cos he was the only striker we had. Yet he still put a decent shift in. Movement can be worked on, and that was my major gripe with him, or it was last season as he was a centre-forward, but he was unlike one and was static. But it can be worked on with good teaching. Teaching a striker to move is hardly something that can't be done. And when he establishes causing the defense trouble with running without the ball, he'll come on in leaps and bounds, cos only a miniscule percentage of Premiership defenders can even catch teh bastard. Sorting his touch out is down to him, though. We know that it's there, it just needs to be utilised. A good team/good staff will help that. And our staff, at the very least, will be 100% better this season than what it was last. Movement is pretty instinctive imo, it can be improved yes but his is awful and he's been playing in the most tactical league in the world before now so if you think he's got potential in that sense, you might as well argue any young striker with poor movement has imo. He's got something about him, i.e. the ability to do the extradinary but, imo, his basics are so lacking that he'll always be inconsistent. Anyway, as Dave says this has been done to death and it's all about opinions, eh? Fair enough, if that's what you think then i can't really argue with you mate. I think movement can be taught, you don't. Besides, as a sort of coutner-argument, there was a few goals last season where movement in the box was key. Header vs Levadia, Header vs Watford, round-keeper vs Liverpool, 1st and 2nd against Alkmaar to name a few. Still, i'd definitely agree that his movement isn't good. But like i say, i think it can be taught, you don't. Would love to see the product of a Martins/Shearer football love-in.

How, when he's not playing with them/often enough in general? Plus - other strikers are hardly coaches, are they? He'll have picked up stuff, i'll bet that he was a better player leaving Inter than when he first joined them. Allardyce turned Diouf and Davies, two fairly shite Premiership players, into either very good or generally very effective ones - cos they talent was there. He even got an enigmatic Anelka playing excellently week-in, week-out. The same goes for Martins, but you can multiply the hidden talent/potential significantly.

Won us some too, Spurs away, being the most prevalent. Anyone who says Martins doesen't have potential is being overly harsh imo, and making a misjudgement based on his last 10 games for us in which he, amongst others was absolute shit. IE - every other fucker in the squad.

Alex: His touch is shit, i won't deny that. But the guy's got talent - he scored 17 goals in his debut season for a shit English team. Something that is mega different to anything he's ever played in before. He was effectively playing a more offensive position than normal, cos he was the only striker we had. Yet he still put a decent shift in. Movement can be worked on, and that was my major gripe with him, or it was last season as he was a centre-forward, but he was unlike one and was static. But it can be worked on with good teaching. Teaching a striker to move is hardly something that can't be done. And when he establishes causing the defense trouble with running without the ball, he'll come on in leaps and bounds, cos only a miniscule percentage of Premiership defenders can even catch teh bastard. Sorting his touch out is down to him, though. We know that it's there, it just needs to be utilised. A good team/good staff will help that. And our staff, at the very least, will be 100% better this season than what it was last.

50% are realistic. 25% are fickle. 25% are harsh. I consider myself firmly in the first bracket. Daft what some people expect of him, 17 goals in a totally new/utterly shit team and other such circumstances just ain't enough apparantely.

Absolutely spot on. And i don't think Allardyce is too many millions of miles behind Wenger in terms of nurturing 'neutral'* talent. *IE, the potential's there, but it can go one way or the other, good/bad. Bramble is an example of bad, and i'd say the lack of defensive brain from Sir Bobby cost Titus a lot...

You say that, but what exactly did you see about him that suggests that? He scored 17 fecking goals in a totally alien environment in his debut season, for one thing.

His touch is shit, i won't deny that. But the guy's got talent - he scored 17 goals in his debut season for a shit English team. Something that is mega different to anything he's ever played in before. He was effectively playing a more offensive position than normal, cos he was the only striker we had. Yet he still put a decent shift in. Movement can be worked on, and that was my major gripe with him, or it was last season as he was a centre-forward, but he was unlike one and was static. But it can be worked on with good teaching. Teaching a striker to move is hardly something that can't be done. And when he establishes causing the defense trouble with running without the ball, he'll come on in leaps and bounds, cos only a miniscule percentage of Premiership defenders can even catch teh bastard. Sorting his touch out is down to him, though.

Yup. Masses of potential imo.

if he and owen go(personally if we lose one i'd rather it were martins)we have £22mill extra to spend. And only a few weeks left (given the inevitable lenghty sagas) to sign fill the void's that two top class strikers have left. What's the point when we've got what we have? If Allardyce can get it to click, and i think it's worth him atleast having a go, it could be a cum-worthy-ish-ly good forward line. If it doesn't so be it, but it might.

Worth letting Allardyce have a pop at it tbh.

Aye, and Nut, Gudjohnsen's got no more than two years in him (at his excellent best) at the very most. Martins is lightyears away from his best and is already good.

Infact - that's all i'm saying tbh. Honestly can't be arsed to go into it again. He did fucking well under the circumstances and we're fucked if he goes, cos Owen's off. We'd go from having the best striking line-up outside the Premiership to one of the potentiall weakest, being left with Shola and Viduka. People who want rid were expecting too much too fast and are too difficult to please. Simple as.