Parky

I hate Dunga's system with a passion. Howay Holland!!

Well nobody is questioning the quality of foreign players at Man Utd or Chelsea. My point was that English players like Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard are in the team on merit. That's a fact. And the likes of Scholes and Beckham before them. The suggestion seems to be that they are not as good as their teammates and are therefore carried, and get exposed at the world cup cos they're in fact crap players. This for me is a nonsense argument. Man utd drop points without Rooney, Liverpool drop points without Gerrard. They're in the team alongside foreign stars totally on merit because they're good enough. Most foreigners I speak to agree that they are top players. I do agree with your last two paragraphs. England will never beat Brazil playing their game. But we can beat teams like that, of course we can. We must find a way to maximise Rooney's strengths and minimise his weaknesses, and the same goes for our other top players. Equally we need balance, we need players who are willing to do the dirty work and let the stars take the plaudits, like Darren Fletcher or Park Ji Sung at Man Utd. You look at every Brazil squad and there are often one or two more average players in there. Remember Kleberson? Often a team can't accommodate too many stars, as I thought happened to Brazil four years ago. For that reason I'd have Milner and Adam Johnson on the flanks, young players who don't see themselves as bigger than the team, who will put balls in the box and work for the team. I'd also give Carrick a run in the team, he might lack Barry's engine but he's a more gifted footballer. Another thing I think we lack is a settled team. Going into the world cup we had no idea who was playing on which flank, or who would partner Rooney up front, or even what formation we were playing. This is a mess. Experimenting new formations days before a world cup is insane. You always had the feeling Capello had no idea what his best team was. Scholes and Beckham imo were much better at international level than Lampard and gerrard. With the turn of the century, Scholes became a prominent player in England's midfield, becoming a first-choice selection for the 2002 World Cup. However, after the tournament, Scholes saw his opportunities in the national team decline due to Sven-Göran Eriksson playing him out of position on the left midfield to accommodate the pairing of Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard in central midfield.[31] Scholes announced his retirement from international football in August 2004, citing his family life and his club career with Manchester United as being more important.[32]

On a slightly related note, and I've already posted this earlier in the thread but fuck it, while I don't think there's anything wrong with having a foreign English coach per se, I think hiring foreign coaches who've never worked in the English game is silly. It's definitely a concern, but it would depend who it was for me, I think some would be able to get to grips with it faster than others. Have to say that I'm getting increasingly worried about how Fabio's level of English is affecting things having seen some of his press conferences when he obviously didn't understand some very simple questions. Terry: Can-the-lads-have-a-beer.....biero...? Capello: Yes we play four four two oo...

Aye, and you're the most underperforming nation of them all! Zing!

Tempted to give meself a goal for that.

It's not as much of a problem for Italy though as their style of football is similar to international football, so they can get used to it playing at home. The English style of football is totally different from international football, so our players can look world-beaters in the Premiership, but look lost when they're at the world cup. I think that people have identified that we're not going to win anything playing English football in international games, but unfortunately they've only managed to use that realisation to make things worse, not better. We now ask our players to carry on playing English style week after week, in the Premiership, but somehow flick a switch and play international style football for England. The idea is well intentioned, but it's a total waste of time if the Premiership doesn't change, which it won't because that's the reason it's so exciting and therefore successful. It seems to me that the only realistic option is for young English players to go abroad and learn how to play international style football and once they have they can come back if they want, as it doesn't seem to do players who already know how to play it too much harm when they go back to their national teams after having played in the Premiership. Basically it's not about players playing abroad as such, although that would obviously be beneficial, it's about players learning how to play in a more controlled and technical manner, which is something they won't get in this country - other than at Arsenal, perhaps - the way things are at the moment. ...and therin lies the rub, how many Eng players start for Arsenal?

Apart from the bit about Germany I think that's pretty much spot on. It's not too many foreigners in the English league, it's too few Englishmen in the foreign leagues. That's a good read. It's what I was trying to get across earlier when I talk about pitch intelligence. IMO it's the biggest advantage the Germans had over us, they seemed to know where they needed to be on the pitch with regard to what phase the game was in, so I'd argue it is not only technique but reading the game. All the Euro leagues are slower with more focus on posession and positioning, ironically I'd argue the Bundesliga is closest to us with regarding tempo and physicality but they also know how to keep posesssion ande how to play in bursts. Eng on the whole play at one tempo and the play is predictable. Look at Spain and Holland how they think ahead when they have posession, how VP cycles out wide or deep to take the ball or create space for the others, straight away although they play with one striker it feels like they have two on the pitch.

Shall I sneak one up?

I see no reason why we cant be like Holland. It's all about their system and how they are taught imo. Fairenough Brazil because our society is totally different, but Holland or France there's no reason we cant replicate what they do. In Holland the 2/3 top clubs have really fantastic academies and IMO France with their national academy is a decade ahead of us. The Man Utd and West Ham academies I guess have been the most prolific in England. Jérémie Aliadière Nicolas Anelka Habib Bamogo Sébastien Bassong Habib Bellaïd Hatem Ben Arfa Jimmy Briand Garra Dembélé Cheik Doukouré Abou Diaby Issiar Dia June William Gallas Thierry Henry Jacques Faty Ricardo Faty Jirès Kembo Ekoko Jonathan Martins Blaise Matuidi Mourad Meghni Gabriel Obertan France U21 Grégory Sertic August 5, 1989 (1989-08-05) (age 20) France ES Viry-Châtillon 2003–2005 France Bordeaux France Bordeaux France France U21 Jérôme Rothen March 31, 1978 (1978-03-31) (age 32) France Versailles FC 1991–1994 France Caen Turkey Ankaragücü France France Louis Saha August 8, 1978 (1978-08-08) (age 31) 1991–1994 France Metz England Everton France France Moussa Sow January 19, 1986 (1986-01-19) (age 24) 1999–2001 France Mantes France Rennes Quentin Westberg August 6, 1985 (1985-08-06) (age 24) 2000–2003 France Troyes France Troyes United States USA U20

Isn't it just that more often than not the bigger more aggresive lads get picked up by clubs due to the nature of the PL. I've heard it many talented kids are rejected for being 'too small'.

It is correct. We have more pro-leagues, more pro-teams & more pro footballers than any other country. We have the volume of players. The FA need to work out is it best spunking £5 million a year on Sven & £6 million a year on Fabio or is better to trying to find a way to improve the quantity of players we have in this country. Only 35% of PL players are available for England compared to 50% of the Spanish top league. There are 364 foreign players in the Pl and 230 odd in the CCC even. Where it really matters at the top clubs where players gain top flight experience the data is even worse ie 20% on average.

@ thespence - Good post but the first sentence is factually incorrect unless you are talking about considering league one players for eng etc..?

Yeah, if people want someone to blame who actually deserves it then look no further than Gerrard. He's too thick and far too self-centred to be played on the left as he simply refuses to do it, if I was Capello I'd have torn a strip off him for the way he's performed, whenever he's been asked to play there. Ever time he's dumped the left back right in the shit throughout the game, all of Germany's goals came from the right of their midfield because he simply wasn't where he was supposed to be. He's absolutely not a team-player and therefore should never have been made captain, he's one of the very worst we've ever had. Finally, somebody else agrees with me. I agree with that as well. You could see Capello shouting at Gerrard and pointing down at his feet ie hold your position.

Germany will win it. Would like Holland to.

What South America has: millions of urban poor with no X-Box and but loads of footie which is also seen as an escape route from poverty (rightly or wrongly). Correct.

Klinsmann is shit when it comes to tactics. The "mastermind" was Löw. Klinsmann was only the "motivator". I think the difference between Beckham and Klinsmann is that the later got away from german football for a few years, coached in the US (where he learned about new training-methods) and then came back. International management is mostly about keeping the players motivated, though. You have such a short period of time to work with the players, motivation plays a much bigger part than tactics for "good" sides. Though it's the contrary for "lesser" sides. All Spain seem to work on is those silly little runs from the left while a sqadron of dwarfs tinkers with the ball near center circle.

Messi was referring to Parky, who is the only person that has disagreed with you. I feel there is a quiet majority who get tired of watching 30 odd passes of Spanish peacockery around the half way line. At one point I was hoping Portugal would step up the treading on foot thing they have mastered.

Gayest football post ever. http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,43811.0.html Ha ha...Look at the names on that poll. Happy days. Depressing more like. I was wondering why you included Oscar Cardozo, then I realised it was probably Neri Cardozo, who I remember when he was supposed to be the next big thing... haven't heard of him in ages. Guess he can join the long list of Argentine playmakers who didn't live up to the hype. Have any of them delivered? Nasri didn't make the french side and VDV has faded a bit. Diego is still rated pretty high?

Gayest football post ever. http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,43811.0.html Ha ha...Look at the names on that poll. Happy days.

Gayest football post ever.

Forgot quite how boring it was to watch Spain till tonight.

? That's a whole other level of delusion, winning it and not even being in it. I quite like Roy, but silly to give on Liv just when there are so many sticks to beat them with.

Everyone has their share of deluded idiots. Alright mate.

There is that.

Yeah, five years from now, Hodgson will be in deep trouble.