Parky

That would involve removing Kinnear and bringing in a much better manager long-term and supporting that manager in the jan window. Not gonna happen is it? Our season is already screwed up but the longer JK stays the greater the danger of relegation grows. I won't say it is a real prospect just now because there are still many points to play for but if he's here in jan I for one will be extremely worried and I can't see us climbing that table any time soon. I know he failed to save Forest, but it still needs better players, he can only do so much. I think we would have done better with Keegan, but mainly because of the stability factor as well as Keegans superior management ability. I think he's tough and with a few players could keep us up but not if we don't get a couple of players who will come into the team, improve it and not get hurt. The problem isn't with the first 11. If we played our first 11 we would have probably had a comfortable season, but in the real world nobody plays their first 11 for the majority of games, even a club with few injuries needs 15 or 16 players and we didn't start the season with that amount of decent enough players to improve on last year. How the club ever thought they could get through this season with Viduka as the only credible main front man is beyond me. He might not even play one game, and it was so predictable that he wouldn't be around very much. Or that bringing in Xisco would be their get out. Its crap this, it really is. The club has stepped back 20 years here in terms of their outlook and ambition, and I can't see how anybody can justify it in the slightest Wasn't there some comment from Wise about signing world class players? That he was signing some. do you mean trophy players ?

That would involve removing Kinnear and bringing in a much better manager long-term and supporting that manager in the jan window. Not gonna happen is it? Our season is already screwed up but the longer JK stays the greater the danger of relegation grows. I won't say it is a real prospect just now because there are still many points to play for but if he's here in jan I for one will be extremely worried and I can't see us climbing that table any time soon. I know he failed to save Forest, but it still needs better players, he can only do so much. I think we would have done better with Keegan, but mainly because of the stability factor as well as Keegans superior management ability. I think he's tough and with a few players could keep us up but not if we don't get a couple of players who will come into the team, improve it and not get hurt. The problem isn't with the first 11. If we played our first 11 we would have probably had a comfortable season, but in the real world nobody plays their first 11 for the majority of games, even a club with few injuries needs 15 or 16 players and we didn't start the season with that amount of decent enough players to improve on last year. How the club ever thought they could get through this season with Viduka as the only credible main front man is beyond me. He might not even play one game, and it was so predictable that he wouldn't be around very much. Or that bringing in Xisco would be their get out. Its crap this, it really is. The club has stepped back 20 years here in terms of their outlook and ambition, and I can't see how anybody can justify it in the slightest Wasn't there some comment from Wise about signing world class players? That he was signing some.

WBA. Stoke +1

But before he'd had any impact on anything. did milne have any effect on anything. thats my whole point. each DOF has a differing remit from club to club. it may not be the role that is wrong but the personnel or the remit. Surely right there lies the problem. If no one can put a specific handle on what a DOF does and it can differ whichever club employs this person, then I think that lends itself to confusion from the outset. A person gets a job as DOF at club A and then if he gets a job as DOF at club B but is told his role is different, I cant see how that just isnt going to cause problems because we all get into habits in their job and get used to being able to do certain things - its always difficult adapting to different criteria in a new job Benitez himself says he prefers the English system.

The DOF more often than not is an exrta cog - second guessing the manager and often siding with the board when things go wrong. The immediacy with which this miscommunication translates to performances and strategic decisions is exacerbated by the intense pressure PL clubs are under. Only under very special conditions or long term relationships can it hope to work and do what it promises which is to take some of the pressure off the manager.

So it's more the personnel than the system, then. It's also about the football culture in the PL where most managers (bar 4/5)are immediatedly under pressure if they lose 4/5 games.

My feeling is that it is very difficult in the PL without clear accountability, the pressure on resources (money and personnel) is so high and unforgiving. In Spain or whatever you might muddle through (most games for the top sides are strolls in the park) and you have time to hone and iron things out...In the PL every tactical or operational blunder seems to be punished very quickly. What do you mean when you say "most games for the top sides are strolls in the park"? Many foreign players have said how only the top 4 clubs in england can play football whereas the same isnt true in other countries and every game is more difficult. For me there is far less pressure and intensity currently in other Euro leagues compared to the PL. In the last 4/5 years the strength in depth aided by the importing of most of the best players from around the globe IMO has made the PL very unforgiving to any system that isn't working well.

Very good point.

It is just a coincidence. The DOF system wouldn't suddenly turn Joe Kinnear into a tactical genius which is arguably his biggest weakness and thus a big area preventing him from being a really good manager would it whereas it would devalue a manager like Kevin Keegan or Harry Redknapp whose biggest strengths are in spotting talent or wheeling and dealing in the transfer market. I don't think the lack of quality English or British managers is down to there being not so many DOF style setups in our game nor do I believe such systems make our foreign counterparts any better. Both Arsene Wenger and Rafa Benitez are on record saying the English traditional system is the best and has made them far better managers. As to why it doesn't work in this country, that's a good question. Which I've already answered.

Not sure what you're saying. The core of the debate is about group decision making against one man laying out and pursuing his own singular vision (see Wenger, KK, Red nose). The DOF system works at clubs in Europe also cause the general culture is more tuned to group decision making.

My feeling is that it is very difficult in the PL without clear accountability, the pressure on resources (money and personnel) is so high and unforgiving. In Spain or whatever you might muddle through (most games for the top sides are strolls in the park) and you have time to hone and iron things out...In the PL every tactical or operational blunder seems to be punished very quickly.

We have spent around £175m on new players over the last 3 years. The purchasing of players is a critical aspect of our Club and, given our current position, it is essential that we go into the January transfer window with absolute confidence in the advice being offered to the Board. Following a meeting of the Directors and a full review of our football management structure, I can also inform you that Damien Comolli has left the Club with immediate effect. Damien will not be directly replaced. In my opinion, and with the benefit that comes with running our Club with and without a Sporting Director in the past seven years, the successful management of a football club is not about structures or job titles. As in most businessess, it's about people: their personal qualities, their knowledge, their experience, their relationships, communication skills, interaction with colleagues, leadership and, of course, their ability. In Harry, we are also accepting with his appointment that now is the right time for us to move back to a more traditional style of football management at our Club. one which we believe will be capable of initiating our climb back up the Premier League table...... [Ne5/]

In Harry, we are also accepting with his appointment that now is the right time for us to move back to a more traditional style of football management at our Club. one which we believe will be capable of initiating our climb back up the Premier League table and to maintaining our challenge in the UEFA, Carling and FA Cup competitions"..Levy The end of this DOF lark?

Aye, it's almost as if some of us are from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. What a stupid f***ing thing to say. What? Now that was a stupid thing to say. Blaming the system, the owners, Kinnear etc is bloody stupid and pointless. They pretty much had their strongest team out and we didn't even come close. I think we would have beaten them easily otherwise. We played alright on the whole and they played well. But hey let's play the blame game all over again! That's so much more fun! I blame Owne for having muscle tissue made out of tissue paper! I blame Freddy Shepherd and John Hall for selling the club to that evil non-Geordie Mike Ashley! I blame Keegan for being a stroppy little man! yada, yada, yada, yada bollox. Two players (Owen, Viduka) from our best team. Sorry, but you can't blame injuries on this one. Jonas got 15 mins because he only just returned, as did Barton. If they are fit enough to play the 90, we win this game easily imo. Beye still isn't quite right either and Martins doesn't look very sharp. How would we win it easily? When they'd both probably be bypassed anyway with the ball being aimed far beyond their reaches. Did you watch the match? Did you see what happened after they both came on? You don't have the first clue what this means to people from this area so why bother offering comment? f***s sake What's your problem? Kaka thinks I'm overreacting. I say that when he's actually seen the Tyne Bridge, he'll have the right to tell me I'm overreacting to a derby defeat. Until then, he should keep his f***ing nose out. you're telling him he shouldnt even bother having an opinion because he's not local? classic. He's not allowed to tell me I'm overreacting, no. Fairly f***ing obvious iyam. mackems.gif Look mate - do you think Keegn would of lost that game? With players he bought? No. Not what i asked. Squirm as much as you like mate - but you know your way off with this one. f***ing disgraceful result, i know but JK is responsible for this one. The quality of the squad is not to blame for this result. Squirm? Of course Keegan would have won this game, like he did last year at a canter. So your point about Wise and the quality of squad is f***ing invalid if Keegan would of got a better result witht he exact same squad. Not rocket science like. Not really. The reason Ashley backed Wise instead of Keegan was because he thought the squad was so good that the manager didn't matter. Not rocket science like. Is that a reason or a wild guess? And what exactly has that got to do with this match?? If the squads the same yet you think you;d get 2 different results with different managers then the only variable here is the manager and therefore the manager is repsonsible for the loss. Rocket science is probably too much for you so how about we move it to "join the dots". Are you dim or something? Ashley is to blame for the squad situation, the manager situation and our first defeat off this lot for 8 years, first away for 28 years. Does that clear things up? mackems.gif Oh my god. that is embarressing logic, so Ashley is responsible for every single result we have this season be it good or bad? Thats borderline idiotic i'm afraid. You admit that another manager would of got a better result with the same squad but still go on to say the squad is the reason we're losing, scratch that, that is idiotic. So, same car, different drivers different results yet the cars and the builders of the car are the reason for the loss. Credit to you for being this passionate though, feel free to let that get in the way of logic. Honestly haven't got a clue what you're gibbering about now. The squad AND the manager both make a difference on the result of a football match. This is not a difficult concept. f*** me - this is impossible. do you even know how you started this debate, by blaming Wise and Asley for the quality of the squad and therefore this loss. Then you go on to say that Keegan would of got a result with the EXACT same squad. So how can you say the quality of the squad was the reason we lost this result. I've even simplified it for you and you still dont get it. Squad A + Keegan = Win (in your eyes) Squad A + JK = Loss The only variable here is the managers so that can be the only thing responsible for the differing results. That is scientific fact you bamp. :lol: I'm going to assume that the people who matter on this forum are able to understand how dim you look. Even if the managers were the only variables (which they're not), Ashley forced Keegan out by backing his slimey mates. So it's his fault. Right? Keegan wouldn't have lost against a dismal lot like these scumbags but even he wouldn't have been able to work miracles with the squad he was offered by Ashley and his chums to make any significant progress. Agreed...And further Kinnear left Guti and Barton on the bench too long and should have had Zog on as well IMO. The general malaise is the fault of Ashey and Co. further exacerbated by the fact that JK isn't really the man we need (despite his best efforts).

mackems.gif Parky loves a bit of anti-semitism. Just thougth it topical as Spurs are bottom is all. Er, that's the point. I know.

mackems.gif Parky loves a bit of anti-semitism. Just thougth it topical as Spurs are bottom is all.

mackems.gif

You narf talk bollocks sometimes.

Good question. I think it comes down to different companies however. So we'd be safe on that score. Not totally up on this however.

Yeah his title is: I'm the cunt that hounded Mourinho out.

Well I hope you're half wrong.

Strong rumour of sale. Yes. That is all.

"Time will be the great teller but one thing I do know is that I'm sober and I've not had a drink for ten months - since Dec 27," said Barton who may return to action in Saturday's Tyne-Wear derby at Sunderland. "I've had problems with alcohol in the past and the thing I went to jail for was alcohol-related. I'm not using that as an excuse. It was my own stupidity." JB