Dr Venkman

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing. True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in shit-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league. For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that. Immediately, by putting better players on the pitch, howay man, we're talking about replacing Gabriel Obertan with Hatem Ben Arfa. OK man, I'm just trying to explain my argument. Anyone can say Ben Arfa is better than Obertan, it's obvious. But you know that football managers don't always just pick their most talented players, there are more considerations than that. I know mate, you talk some sense but you're too understanding, people make mistakes.

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing. True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in shit-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league. For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that. Immediately, by putting better players on the pitch, howay man, we're talking about replacing Gabriel Obertan with Hatem Ben Arfa.

I suspect you're right but I feel like the spirit of his post is correct, at some point as a team you have to try and make the most of your assets, we've got a few players who can pass and move and two razor sharp strikers who don't suit the long ball game at all, we should be focusing on making chances for them.

right, not everyone can be as comfortable under pressure as colo or tiote but if it was capability issue you'd at lease see some variation - passing to midfield when the pressure wasn't as high, launching it when they're really penned in for it to be so consistent suggests coaching/tactics which is the key point often overlooked

I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Two (or 1.5 when Taylor is playing don't) of them don't tbf. Also both central midfielders are to keen to receive the ball with back to opposition goal rather than side on hence why we need a happy medium instead of forcing short play which is necessarily going to work unlike many seem to be insinuating. I would just like to see it similar to how we were doing it last season, it's the same defenders bar Enrique(big loss I know). We have in midfield, Jonas and Tiote, same as last season, Ben Arfa who is a superior footballer and Cabaye who is apparently one of the best playmaking midfielders in French football. Also the most clinical striker in the premiership(this might be shite now but he's not far off it anyway). Not saying it should be short all the time either but I think to say they don't have the ability to find other players around with with a short pass is wrong. Coach it into them, tell them to do it. Give them the confidence to play that way and in turn that might just give the opportunity to the better players around them to play the football their skills deserve and before you know it you have a team full of confidence, mixing up the play. This is a good post. If anyone in our team is incapable of playing a ten yard pass they should be immediately replaced, by a youngster, by Carver, by a fan, anyone. The belief among some of our supporters that Simpson and Williamson CAN'T pass it into midfield when it's on is staggering, of course they can, we just have a manager that doesn't value passing and moving. I don't want to see them playing one twos or triangles on the edge of our box when we're penned in, but when we're in comfortable possession in our own half a bit of passing out from the back would mix things up nicely. We did do a bit of it earlier in the season, it is possible.

The fuck's he doing in Paris?

please don't start the fucking hughton debate again

Look at them all, going MENTAL!

what? sunderland have got average-poor players, they're just being carried along by new manager syndrome atm You were talking about the clubs 'around us' having plenty of average-poor players too. Liverpool and Chelsea are either side of us if you hadn't noticed. Name some of these players from the clubs around us to support you point. Our weak links are far weaker than those of the mentioned clubs, and you know it. Ok, if our weak links are in defence what's the reasoning for basing our entire game on being hard to beat? It worked earlier in the season, it hasn't been working for months and he's doing absolutely nothing about it. every good team bases their work off the ball in being hard to beat, then they become more expansive when they get possession. Yeah I know, I just think with the available players it's the wrong way to go for us at the minute, we have enough quality to beat the majority of teams if we attack them. This is easy to believe in but I'm not sure it's true. Say we loosened up and attacked the majority of teams, we could easily be conceding two goals a game, or close to it. I'm not sure we would be able to score 3. Obviously it's a balance and impossible to prove either way, but it's a tough one to call IMO. Alright then, not the majority, at least half. I can't see us easily conceding two goals a game if we keep the ball well as others have said.

I wouldnt go that far, he's done a good job over the course of the season so far (obviously it's still to be judged where we finish) but for months now i've had a nagging doubt that we could do better. I keep saying it but next season really is crunch time for Pardew if we improve the squad over the summer as much as we did last year. If he keeps on with this defend first mentality he's gonna make us and himself look pretty stupid.

25?

Getting boring now like, we don't have to play it every week for it to be a problem.

They're both razor sharp finishers, as I see it Pardew's using this as an excuse to concentrate on limiting other teams chances over increasing ours. It's daft imo because those two will out score the vast majority of strike partnerships in the league, get Ben Arfa on the left and Jonas on the right and give them some ammunition, we'd score shit loads.

Edit: He can sign a new contract if it means his position is on the bench. Indeed, can't see it though, i'd be really surprised if we signed a new full back and extended his contract.

This is it for me like, as i've said elsewhere. The players he actually puts on the pitch has a lot to do with it as well.

Interesting article in the chron about us having cash to spend but listening to offers for Gosling and Ranger, i still can't figure out hot to post a chron article properly without it being a major fuck on

Sunderland away was comfortable?

That's what we've been waiting for. (Cissokho)

Stu, i'd love that and am still hoping for it

I'm not surprised in the slightest, our league position is great, our performances are worrying though and have been for some time, simple as that.

This, doesn't matter who we were playing against it's clear he had a very good first touch and passing ability, and he he could run at people and commit them.

It's day three of defensive training, Cabaye will be told at length about the attacking threat of Surman and Howson edit - oh we played on monday, it'll probably be day one, a new beginning!

2 goals in 2 starts and a sub appearance at SJP. Apparently playing Obertan in the hole is a better option. This really should be closely considered by every single person that calls themselves an nufc fan.

Worst post of the year, particularly 'no one has any idea what actually went on in terms of our play'. Congratulations, that's quite staggering. Blows my mind that people can watch football without actually watching it. You've ignored the following discussion on that then yeah, brilliant. As i said before, its not obvious what is specifically down to Pards instructions vs a players individual reaction to a series of events. Many also said we played hoofball in the 2nd half vs Arsenal, rewatch the 2nd half and tell me how many times our defence kicks it long. See if it blows your mind. I read the following discussion after I quoted your post. Its obvious to me that a manager has a massive influence over the way his team plays and the entire performance against Arsenal (I thought we looked just as useless in the first half, we just had more of the ball in the middle and did nothing with it) is symptomatic of Pardews disregard for progressive attacking football that'll open up space. There's a bigger picture to be considered apart from the Arsenal performance and how much we do or don't play long ball.

Lads, we can talk all we like about deflected goals, headers and defensive stats etc but imo there's a more pressing issue. Are we creating enough chances to win games? Against teams like Wolves, Swansea etc, was there anything resembling a coherent game plan that resulted in us scoring enough goals to win? With the players we've got, should we be expecting to beat teams like those mentioned at home? (yes I know football doesn't always work like that). The fact that the Pardew thread has fallen into a debate about defensive stats speaks volumes! Ok so at times we've conceded goals you could deem as unlucky, that wouldn't be such a problem if the manager had spent any time working with the team on how to break the opposition down would it? Because we could potentially go back and have another go, with an idea about how to score again. While I agree with Madras that long ball hasn't been our main tactic this season, I think there has been one. 'dont concede and give it to Ba'. I've been saying this for months and the stuff from Carver sort of backs it up doesn't it, 80% on defensive training ffs. I'm still holding onto a bit of hope that he'll reasses our priorities next season when we've got better ball playing defenders but it's fading fast, some are in for a shock I think.