KaKa

Owen is a decent player, he's just not what we need right now as he offers little to the cause. Take Viduka, he's big and strong, he'll hold the ball and bring other players into play. Martins is quick and good in the air he frightens defenders if nothing else. If I was a defender playing Owen at the minute I'd be rubbing my hands together.

 

Owen's game is about movement. He's the man who's always in the right place at the right time to tap in the easy chance. He isn't physically strong or quick, but he's good at what he does. In a team like Stoke where the ball is constantly in play in the box he'd thrive. Crosses, long balls, second balls he'd have a field day, sooner or later he'd get on the end of one of them.

 

The problem with Owen now is he's lost some of his sharpness probably due the immense amount of injuries he's suffered. This means if he's getting regular service he'll get you a goal but he'll probably waste two or three good goal scoring chances. This is the problem for Newcastle. Because our midfield has zero creativity the strikers get very few chances so they have to create their own. Both Viduka and Martins have the physical attributes to do this but Owen doesn't. So when the gold nugget of a cross finally falls out the midfields arse he's been spaffing it away.

 

Another problem is because the crap-tastic midfield sit so deep and provide no service for the strikers they are forced to drop deep. You see Martins and Owen do this reguarly. Now where as Martins has a bit of pace and can take someone from deep Owen can't. His only real attribute is his movement in the box, if he isn't in the box what good is he doing?

 

At the end of the day Owen's goal scoring problems arise from poor service and a lack of self sufficiency. He's a good player if you have a creative midfield but we don't. Add this to the fact that he's fluffing the rare chances he is getting and he's nothing more than a one dimensional passenger who contributes little to the team, one who'd I'd drop at this moment in time (even if it would boil piss paying him the money he is on to sit on the bench).

Very good post.

Yes you can say in an ideal world Owen would score goals under the conditions youhave spoken about and this may well be the case. However, my argument is that this type of striker in today's game is just not good enough and will not be accomodated by any of the top teams. Way too one dimensional.

You never take such a player as Owen over any of those Arsenal strikers who will all score just as many goals as Owen in a greater variety of ways and will also throw in an abundance of assists also and a greater contribution tot he teams play.

Kaka do you think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

Imo its composure, technique, awareness, intelligence, ball control.

A top finisher is someone who can put the ball in the back of the net in a variety of ways. The more ways a player is able to do this consistently the more dangerous they are and the more of an accomplished striker this person is. Perfect example Alan Shearer.

Owen right now is only capable of occassionally putting away chances in the box. Not a top finisher.

Seriously your annoying the piss out of me.  How many times can i say it!

 

Owen is a different kind of striker to them.  He IS in the 6 yard box when they cross into the box and no one is ever there.  Your right they shoot from everywhere.

 

He has intelligence, off the ball movement in the penalty area.  Knows where the goal is, scores 1 in every 2 games his whole career.  Given the chance he will score.

 

How many games have Arsenal dominated and barely scored as tried walk it into the net.  Over the last seasons.  Lots!

You said Owen would be a boot cleaner at Arsenal, well imo as they create so many chances =  He will be an ASSET to them.  He thrives on service

 

Understand?

So you don't understand then?

And you know what that's okay.

You are entitled not to.

I will end with this ... it is not intelligent to only attempt shots inside the box if you claim to be a top striker. It is down right incompetent and quite moronic. Particularly in a team that will hardly ever provide these opportunities.

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

owen's goal record in the league this season is going to be something like 7 goals in 30 games, that's a shocking statitistic and look at the teams he's scored against

 

He has score 10 or 11, and dont think he has played 30 games for us this year.  How many were sub appearances.

 

I been proving to you, with stats, links everything.  Given a chance will put it away more than most in the league, proved that with the supposedly 'light years ahead with finishing' van Persie/Adebayor records for the year.

 

What are you arguing?  Put Micheal Owen in a team create chances for him - he aint had many.  He has had 50, van Persie 180 shots.

 

I love your passion dude but it's badly misplaced.

 

You will find that in general the best strikers and goal scorers  take a hell of a lot of shots and miss a hell of a lot also but ultimately score the most.

 

 

FFS it all started with you!

 

You said Arsenal dont need someone like Owen in the side, when in fact they dont have a striker in the 6 yard box, they miss a fuckload of chances, they draw 0-0 when dominate games soo many times recent seasons, have lost games they dominated.  Then you said outright lie that van Persie, Adebayor, BENDTNER, DIABY was more clinical as a striker.

 

When proving they miss a "HELL OF A LOT" (your words) and Owen does in fact score more from LESS chances he gets.  You try to shift it onto general play.

 

I was only arguing about the word you used 'finishing'.  Owen finishes more chances.  Fact.

Okay lets stick strictly to clinical finishing.

Everytime Owen misses he misses from 5 yards out when he is one on one with the goalie. These are the only times he shoots.

When the Arsenal strikers miss chances they miss from 30 yards, 20 yards 10 yards etc however they test the goalie and force saves also and they also occassionally score from these distances too. If these strikers also only limited themselves to waiting in the box to score from 5 yards and nothing else (like Owen does!) then they would score with a much better ratio than Owen.

Do you understand?

Shearer needs to take Owen to the side and spell it out to him.

"Look mate, this side is utter crap and there is no point waiting on them to create chances for you, you have to find a way to get more shots on goal in and be more of a goal threat"

Put more of an onus on Owen because in this side this is the kind of mindset he needs to have.

I think it has been a mistake all the constant talk about needing to create more chances for Owen. Although this is obviously the case, the striker also has to be encouraged to go out of his way to make things happen also.

Owen needs to take more responsibility. he's been given an easy out with all this not enough chances stuff.

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

owen's goal record in the league this season is going to be something like 7 goals in 30 games, that's a shocking statitistic and look at the teams he's scored against

 

He has score 10 or 11, and dont think he has played 30 games for us this year.  How many were sub appearances.

 

I been proving to you, with stats, links everything.  Given a chance will put it away more than most in the league, proved that with the supposedly 'light years ahead with finishing' van Persie/Adebayor records for the year.

 

What are you arguing?  Put Micheal Owen in a team create chances for him - he aint had many.  He has had 50, van Persie 180 shots.

I love your passion dude but it's badly misplaced.

You will find that in general the best strikers and goal scorers  take a hell of a lot of shots and miss a hell of a lot also but ultimately score the most.

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

In this whole league, just think about every team in this league right, even the very worst of them ... is there any striker who is so reliant on service that he never ever even has an attempt on goal unless he is handed a chance in the box?

The current Owen is a dinosaur of the game.

owen has never scored against a top 4 club at newcastle

 

shows you he can't play against good opposition, only scores against the lesser sides

And yet Martins despite all his flaws, and I will admit he does have some, has scored against them all except maybe Chelsea and he came damn close.

dmck let me ask you this.

 

If by some miracle we could swap Owen for any of the Arsenal strikers for the run in till the end of the season would you switch him for any of them? Or keep Owen?

 

Swap him for any of Arshavin, Adebayor or van Persie without question.

They create and score chances, be more important to the team.

 

So why on Earth would Wenger show any hint of interest in our grubby, pass it's sell by date striker?

Owen is too one dimensional and too slow he wouldn't be able to keep up with those kids at Arsenal.

Those Arsenal kids are the future of the game. Young, fresh, exciting and sexy football.

Owen would be so out of place. He would be the guy no one wants to sit next to at lunch.

dmck let me ask you this.

If by some miracle we could swap Owen for any of the Arsenal strikers for the run in till the end of the season would you switch him for any of them? Or keep Owen?

We are talking about the Owen of today playing at Arsenal and being more clinical than all of their strikers???

 

You are either a major WUM or monumental WUM.

 

Erm no he is in my opinion,  his record throughout his carear has been.  He is a striker plays on coinfidence and service, a concept i dont think you understand.

 

If you look at how much chances Arsenal create, they are super wasteful he is more clinical then all of them - look at his carear goals/games ratio.  It's a fact.

 

When Arsenal cross the ball through 6 yard box, most of the Arsenal players are on the edge of the area if you have ever seen them play, Owen would be right there.  Arsenal are without this player.

 

Can't believe you put Diaby, Vela and Bendtner in that list btw shocking, Vela has had about 2 good games, Diaby is DCM and Bendtner has been shocking most games.

I put Vela, Bendtner and Diaby in there because my regard for the Owen I see out there for Newcastle this season is that low.

You can talk about his record all you want but he is never a better striker today than Eduardo and Adebayor in particular or any of the others I have mentioned.

Bearing in the mind the multi faceted games all of the Arsenal strikers have and the variety of ways they can score goals and create chances.

Owen is a nothing player in comparison.

Sorry.

The key to this working last season was the insistence in keeping the ball on the groound.

Nowadays a number of our players too easily and often play the ball in the air to no one in particular and no one in the coaching staff seems to give a damn about it.

Owen at Liverpool scored a fair number of goals with his left-foot as well.

Shame this version of Owen has been extinct for what? 5 years now?

His right foot is just about serviceable right now never mind his left! His left doesn't even register anymore.

We are talking about the Owen of today playing at Arsenal and being more clinical than all of their strikers???

You are either a major WUM or monumental WUM.

Jay Simpson on loan from Arsenal.

30 goals next season alongside Carroll who will get 20.

he could do a very decent job at arsenal. they've needed a striker like him for a while now.

 

An unbelievable statement!

 

Eduardo is everything Owen was and more.

 

Adebayor, Van Persie, Carlos Vela and even Bendtner are far more useful.

 

The likes of Arshavin, Nasri and even Diaby can play as second strikers also.

 

Unless they are looking for a boot cleaner Owen need not apply.

 

Arsenal create chances left, right and center.  How many times have ALL the players you have listed tried to walk into into the net and either draw or not even score at all!

 

Owen would be a great addition, imo more clinical than all those strikers, certainly more intelligent.  A crap side, and a forward who relies on service isnt going to make him look good.  A good side + confidence and his ability in front of goal, great match-up for him.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus Lord please have mercy on this man for the blasphemy he has spoketh!

Owen more clinical than who?

What football do you watch? Are you seriously joking?

Owen whose shots generate less power than a newborn's would? Owen who cannot shoot from outside the box? Owen who cannot shoot with his left foot? Who can no longer go past anyone? Who can no longer finish one on one with the goalie?

Owen is now a midget striker who occassionally scores headers from 5 yards or less or tap ins from 5 yards from less. 95% of his goals come this way. Outside of these he does absolutely nothing else in general play.

How dare you compare this player to Eduardo, Adebayor, Van Persie, Arshavin, Vela etc.

How dare you man! I am flabbergasted.

he could do a very decent job at arsenal. they've needed a striker like him for a while now.

An unbelievable statement!

Eduardo is everything Owen was and more.

Adebayor, Van Persie, Carlos Vela and even Bendtner are far more useful.

The likes of Arshavin, Nasri and even Diaby can play as second strikers also.

Unless they are looking for a boot cleaner Owen need not apply.

The sad thing is even if we go down we'll need a very well thought out overhaul of the squad because this team, funnily enough, would be worse in the championship than the premiership in my opinion.

They'll just get pushed around and bullied to all day and will crumble to bits.

Maybe we should go with Viduka and Owen as our front two again...although they have looked too slow and static to be effective in the past. It's not like Oba is offering as much movement as before anyway due to the groin injury.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

I'm sorry but this will never work.

If I saw these two upfornt I would push my defensive line all the way up to the edge of the Nedwcstle United box.

An attack without Oba does not work, whatever you think about him.

When is Loven back? We could do with him upfront.

We can't have any complains, completely deserve to go down, definitely one of the 3 worst sides. Really think we needed that last night, if we can't beat them in our most winnable match why would we beat Boro or Fulham who have more to play for. Shows how bad the standard has been this year that we can still stay up by winning 2 games (IMO 37 will be enough) which we really should expect to be able to win.

Honestly we are the worst footballing side in the league.

Stoke, Blackburn and a few others play disgusting brands of football but they at least have a plan and stick to it.

We don't do anything well. We don't have a style of football because we don't even play football. I'm still not sure what they do out there because it isn't football. Just a bunch of random actions between some really cluelees players' feet and the ball, while hoping something comes out of nowhere.

West Brom play better than us, Boro do also and God forgive me even Sunderland figure out the occassional passing sequence a couple of times a game.

We are the worst team in this league and if we go down we really can have no complaints at all.

               Harper

Beye Coloccini Bassong Duff

    Barton Butt Jonas

               Owen

    Viduka          Martins

 

I like Guthrie, but he was poor yesterday and I really want Barton back in the team, as he is without a doubt our best midfielder when in form (which he probably won't be, still reckon he's the best even when not match fit). Think we'll need Jonas to carry the ball for us, he'll help us take a bit of pressure off the defence. Might be a bit harsh on dropping Smith, thought he looked one of your best players yesterday, he even took a couple of shots, more than he did all of last year tbh.

 

Put Smith in for Butt and that team would be the closest to any chance we have the rest of the way this season.

We went to complete s*** when Butt went off and Smith moved in the middle. Butt knows how the play the role, Smith doesn't. For all his faults, Butt did what he was supposed to do yesterday, if you can forget all of his misplaced passes.

You really think that was all down to Butt going off do you? Ridiculous suggestion. Had more to do with Viduka going off and the players alresdy tiring and losing hope.

Start the game without Butt and you will see the closest thing to coherent football at the club this season.

The man has been i n the team all season at the age of 34(?) and we have been crap all year. get him the hell out of there for a change and let's see if someone else can make a more positive contribution for goodness sake.

We've totally mishandled this situation the whole bloody season.

It's tough to watch when he tries to drop deep and get involved in the play.

 

Destined to forever be and incredibly frustrating player to have on your team, just hope one of those moments of rare unpredictable quality gets produced in the next few weeks.

It will always be his nature. His real value is in the mayhem he creates for defenders when he is full of confidence and buzzing around the place. He will score you goals but is not exactly a clinical guy that you can count on every single time.

With no one else around him even looking a goal threat and with him trying harder and pressing more and more he will only look worse. He's not someone you want trying too hard to do everything as it can really look messy then.

Its a sad reflection on football when you have to have a ring master starting songs before kick off.  Oh how football and its fans have fallen. 

 

I said that. It was cringeworthy as f***. I felt like a Bolton or Wigan supporter.

 

...but with fewer points.

Yup, saw that coming. We are in no position right now to take any kind of cheapshots at any other team or their set of fans because we'll only get it back twice over and it will be a lot more painful.

Trotter things are really crap right now so go easy on us folks.

               Harper

Beye Coloccini Bassong Duff

    Barton Butt Jonas

               Owen

    Viduka          Martins

 

I like Guthrie, but he was poor yesterday and I really want Barton back in the team, as he is without a doubt our best midfielder when in form (which he probably won't be, still reckon he's the best even when not match fit). Think we'll need Jonas to carry the ball for us, he'll help us take a bit of pressure off the defence. Might be a bit harsh on dropping Smith, thought he looked one of your best players yesterday, he even took a couple of shots, more than he did all of last year tbh.

Put Smith in for Butt and that team would be the closest to any chance we have the rest of the way this season.

Its a sad reflection on football when you have to have a ring master starting songs before kick off.  Oh how football and its fans have fallen. 

A stupid gimmick to "get the fans going" because "we need the fans to get behind us and be the 12th man".

No.

What was actually needed was a decent 11 players on the pitch who had some idea of how to play football and the guts to go out there and actually try to put in a performance.