merlin

This is actually a very good point - Gillespie was never the same after that injury and his loss was crucial. However, my pinpoint of when the title was blown was the March game with Man U at SJP ; we totally out-played them for most of the game and failed to convert any chances...as the game went on it was obvious that the momentum was slipping away and they went from being a shell-shocked side to one which suddenly gained belief that they could get something from the game and, of course, the arch-villain Cantona did the damage.. Had we scored in the first half I reckon we would have won by 2 clear goals and their heads would have dropped for the rest of the season. They suddenly began to believe they could do it, and we started to believe we might blow it, which is what happened. The result at Blackburn especially, was a sign of nerves creeping in - both on AND off the field..

Nonsense - Hamman hated Gullit ; it was because they didn't get on and that the Board was, to quote Hamman, 'Average, therefore the club was average', that Hamman left. Also, people should remember that Dalglish was NOT given the financial free reign that Keegan had in his first Premiership years ; the club became a PLC and had to stick to a budget for team strengthening - that was the reason Keegan quit, he knew he wouldn't be able to spend money in the same way as he had before. Don't forget that NUFC were lying 6th in the Prem when KK went, Dalglish managed to get the side to finish second against all the odds. His bust up with the Board was what did for him, nothing else. He was unlucky with injuries, esp to Shearer because Tomasson had looked great alongside Al in the pre-season games - the injury ruined what could have been a great career for JDT because he was obliged to play CF and he was NEVER that. That he was a good player was proven at Milan later....

You share my opinion on this - the players liked Dalglish but he was hated by the media because he was suspicious of them, with good reason.. He DID buy some excellent players but the problems were off the field. As I have said before, the way the Gillespie sale to Boro collapsed(due, reputedly, to comments by Fletcher to the Press)caused a furious row between Dalglish & Fletcher and it was this which was the reason for his untimely departure. I reckon he would have got the club into a Top 5/6 position again within a couple of years - he was very unlucky that Shearer got injured at Everton before 97-98...those who whinged about 'dour football' were probably like the fans who did the same when Lee took over as manager, yet within 6 months, the team was scoring goals for fun and reached the LC Final & FA Cup quarters, with the fans singing 'Gordon Lee's B & W Army'..... The team Dalglish inherited was beginning to show weaknesses by the summer of 97 with Ginola disenchanted, Gillespie never the same after that wonderful tackle by Neville(P)at Man U, and weaknesses in defence/midfield. He also had to re-start the Reserves/Juniors, disbanded by KK, so it was a bigger job than it looked. Shepherd did as he was told and fired him two games into the season after we had not lost and drawn at Chelsea - we have never really recovered from this apart from the 3 good seasons with SBR and we still haven't won anything ; I am willing to bet that we WOULD have picked up a trophy had Dalglish been allowed to stay another 3 years.

When it comes to hold up play, linking up, and heading ability Carroll pisses on Shola from a great height tbh. Agreed, and he is young enough to get better - unlike said Shola.. Admittedly haven't seen him strike the ball often enough to comment on that part of his game.

Agree with much of this - as the side is currently doing the business in a difficult situation, Hughton is obviously doing a decent job ; the crunch will come when the side hits a bad patch - if he brings them out of it, all well & good but if not and they fall away, then maybe it would be time to think of other options. If the side gets promoted, it would be hard not to wonder whether Hughton would be up to it in the much tougher world of the Prem, and whether he could get Ashley to strengthen the side if he is still the owner ; failure in either direction would be fatal, but I'm not in the camp that thinks its Shearer or nobody - the best man available for the job should be sought.

Haven't seen the game, but a 4-0 result away from home is as much as anyone could ask. Pleased to see that Nolan is at last starting to play as he used to for Bolton and scoring goals ; a midfielder who can get 10 a season is a must for a side seeking to win anything. One has to give credit where its due and praise Hughton & Calderwood for the job they are doing in less than ideal circumstances ; they have at least succeeded in keeping the team focussed on the field and that is no small achievement after the traumas of last season. Credit also to the players who have kept their heads up when it would be easy to feel sorry for themselves. Harewood could turn out to be a useful asset in this league and at least provides much needed cover up front ; all of the front players are now strong physical guys and that is important in this league, but the younger ones have the potential to improve as footballers too. Well done all round, but I'm still not going overboard about the prospects of promotion until I see the team still competing at the top in February - a nice feeling right now though after the gloom of last season.

true and fred has always spoke highly of ruud as a man ever since. ..and Fred is a good judge of character..!?

Absolutely NOT - simply get better coaches for dealing with youngsters, and get better youngsters - that means getting better scouts AND getting the club a better reputation so that the best kids want to play for it because they certainly don't right now ; if you had a son who showed real promise, would you let him join the shambles that is NUFC right now when the likes of Arsenal, Man U etc are competing for his signature ? In the 60s/70s, Burnley would regularly pinch the good NE kids because they had a reputation for bringing them through properly and gradually. Newcastle thought they could just wait until kids wanted to sign for them....Joe Harvey was interested though, and the club brought through Moncur, Craig, Craggs, Foggon, Robson and Dyson - all of whom played a big part in winning the Fairs Cup in 69. We have never had as good a set of youngsters since ; they won the FA Youth Cup in 62 and even though Gazza & Co did that in 85, only Gazza really made it.... KK gave Academy low priority and that was a mistake - the Directors messed around too long also instead of building it up when the club was doing well in the 90s. Continuity is important - without it, you have to spend fortunes on signing ready-made players who are NOT going to have the club at heart - I'm sure you can all think of a few...!

Since when did NUFC ever do anything in this competition? 1976 is a long time ago, and that was the only time we have reached the Final or even LOOKED like putting a serious run together. In this case, it is better that an under-strength squad is out of it if even a small hope of promotion is to be entertained - people are keen to big up the young players, but of all the ones I have seen, only Carroll, Krul and Ranger look like making it. Lua Lua does not impress me and never has - he isn't a patch on his namesake either, and he was highly erratic..Vukic I haven't seen enough of so I won't judge him OR Tozer for the same reason. We can forget about comps like this until back in the Prem - and that will take some doing, esp with the likes of Guthrie and Smith stacking up Red cards....

I've heard plenty about 'Supermac' - like how once the alcohilism that took over his life and he was left penniless came back to the only place that was stupid enough to have him. Spending all his time in the working men's clubs, mooching free ales based on the past and sleeping in the living room of any f***er stupid enough to take him in. A bit like what he's doing on Century Radio right now really. And if you really blinkered enough think that Given had no alternative than to leave his beloved club in the way he did then you're clearly the one showing ignorance. He is NOT showing 'ignorance', and for you to bring up Macdonald's off-field problems - which occurred long after he left SJP - is simply avoiding the basis of the discussion. The club DID want the money for Macdonald and Gordon Lee wasn't sorry to see him leave because he didn't like star individuals ; also, Macdonald, like Given, knew that the club were always going to be held back by the low ambitions of the board which is why he agreed to the move. Lee wanted the money(and more)to replace him with Trevor Francis, but as usual, the board refused to pay more and Francis eventually went to Forest and Brian Clough. The issue on this thread is relating Supermac and Given as being 'ungrateful' or 'disloyal' to NUFC - you , and many other fans, are going to face a lot of disappointment if you think footballers are strong in the loyalty dept., but in both cases, the club had their money's worth out of these players and the club were happy to take the cash - stop treating NUFC as if it was some wonderful institution that is never wrong ; its so childish and reflects a head-in-the-sand attitude.

They are all in Fergie's pocket(scared of him) and they favour Man U - always have done.

Barton has been going through the motions for a few games - he really isn't interested because a player with his ability should be a major asset in this league ; best thing for both parties if he goes(at a time suitable to the club), and I think that WILL happen if Shearer ever takes over as manager.

I've said this for a while, but it is probably expecting too much for either him or Ranger to play as a one-man strike force ; certainly, in home games, or games away which offer a reasonable chance of 3 points, they should be played in a 4-4-2 formation.

Spot on. When you've got no wingers, playing one up front is not going to work. A lone striker always needs support, and with three in central midfield this has to come from the wide players. When he hasn't got anyone who can beat a man and cross it in, or get to the byline and cut it back, and nobody making runs around him, your lone striker has got nothing to do but play it backwards all game. He can play it backwards and wait for the ball to work its way out wide, but he won't see it coming back into the box much when there's no wingers at all! Having no wingers is going to be a constant problem, we badly need Gutierrez back. It is madness that we started the season with 1 winger and 2 centre backs at the club but we're making it harder for ourselves by playing with one up front against these kinds of teams. We have fit strikers, play them and play on the front foot, we're playing for promotion not mid-table. This - haven't seen the game so cannot comment properly on the performance, but it was clear last Sunday that the side would struggle with just one main striker and no wingers. Not too surprised as we were second best for much of the second half at Cardiff and as I said after that, the squad is too small and has weaknesses in vital positions. Too many questions around the club and I won't make ANY comments as to whether the side is good enough for promotion until after Christmas. Pleased for Carroll though - hope he continues to improve.

This

Seconded.

Yes, you are right - remember it now, he turned quickly and smashed the ball into the roof of the net..yes?

hells teeth, yes we did we actually won 11 out of 11, then lost to Grimsby at home with a stupid long rang effort from a lad called Jobson or Dobson. Dave Bessent was in goal and had a canny game From the top of my head it was Jim Dobbin and it was at home as well. Also, Beasant not Bessent - overrated. I was at every match as well cp40, the best footballing memories of my life were contained in that season..... ...mackems singing where's your record gone at 1-1, then Liam'O stepped up.... ....filling half of the Peterbrough ground with about 9,000 of us in the record breaking run... ...Notts County away watching a lad take 5 steps at a time, hurdle the ad hoarding and jump into Peacock's arms after his goal (one of our most underrated players ever, was wor Gav)... .....dodge a good kicking at Miwawl..and somgside in the CC Cup.... ....watching the Anglo-Italian cup game at Grimsby eating fish and chips on the terrace with literally another 20 people and offering giving Quinny a chip when he scored... ...being first in the queue and camping overnight for FA cup Blackburn ticket (spoke to John Hall who came to see us and KK) ...returning to Grimsby on that Tuesday night to watch us win it... and THAT Leicester game (revenge for the disgraceful scenes down at Filbert St the season before which Bill Borrows the f***ing t*** blamed us for, Man City supporting cock end)...at which, I believe the Andy Cole made it's full debut. That was a complete one off, memories that could not be recreated - any young'uns reading this create your memories and treasure them, I was 16 then and loved it. I think Cole had played quite a few games by then - I remember his first goal at SJP being on a Saturday afternoon(was it Brentford, when Rob Lee had that amazing 'goal' from the half-way line ruled out !??). Cole also scored at Grimsby I think(with Kelly getting No 2). The Leicester 7-1 was the first game that the 'Andy Cole Song' was really heard at length('He gets the ball and.....!!!')

Thanks for the comment, Macca - on reflection, your comments about Barton also ring true because he WAS isolated on the left at times. As you say, Smith playing in front of the back 4 has been a major element in the team's results so far - it will be interesting to see how they cope without him. As you are also in Oz(Melbourne, I believe), what did you think about the TV broadcast times ? Maybe a bit late for you guys, but perfect for us in WA - kick-off at 9pm our time, ended at 10.45 - just in time for a decent night !!

A good result but the team lived dangerously in the second half. The ball was given away too easily far too many times, with Barton the main culprit ; he is starting to look lazy/casual, and you cannot do this at this level because you will be hustled into errors. Ranger did a sterling job up front on his own - even when Lovenkrands came on, he received little support and therefore attacks broke down easily ; hopefully, Carroll's presence will make a big difference to being able to keep the ball when it is played up front, because although we got away with it today, there will be times when the opposition score first, and when that happens we will struggle to equalise without getting caught on the break.... Whilst Taylor didn't deliberately handle, I have seen pens awarded for those sort of ball-to-hand incidents in the area, notably when Beresford was penalised in a game after promotion in 94 - there was no way he could have got his hand out of the ball's path, but the ref still gave a pen...... Enrique(and the whole defence) did well, but he did make one mistake near the end which could have been costly - otherwise, he is looking very composed at this level as a defender. Great goal by Coloccini, esp as he won the ball ,played it out to the wing and then ran in to meet the cross, Still have questions over his defensive play at times. It was his error that forced Smith into a rash challenge on the edge of the area second half... 3 very valuable points and very welcome, but I still feel we will have tougher challenges - they seemed a bit wary of us for the first 20 mins of the game and we will have tougher battles at places like Boro and Sheff Utd in my opinion. Just hope that Ashley's lack of spending(esp for forward players) does not come back to haunt us - no question that Smith will be sorely missed whilst he is suspended.

I wouldn't say the situations were comparable, in 95/96 we paid £2.5m for Ginola and £6m for Ferdinand while Liverpool paid £8m(?) for Collymore and Arsenal paid about £7m for Bergkamp. Obviously Shearer a year later was a massive amount of money but he was arguably the best striker in the world at the time, or at least one of them. Man City broke the British transfer fee record for a player who isn't even in the top 10 players in the world, then over £25m for a defender who doesn't even play for his country. The situations ARE compatible - don't forget the 4m for Barton(Jul 95) and the 7m for Asprilla in Feb 96; we were well-known for being the biggest spenders at the time. Good post. I think you're right that many sneering at Man City right now really are just doing so because they're being childish and envious. Blackburn had Jack Walker and won the Premiership. Chelsea have had Abramovich, ditto. We had Sir John Hall, he two Freddies, loads of wonga, but we blew it and we've been in gradual decline for a few years now, accelerated by the current Ashley regime. Citeh are one of the few clubs who rival NUFC for recurrent melodrama and intrigue off the pitch. Over the past few years Citeh fans have had to endure various highs and lows including two relegations, the excitement of a Keegan promotion, the lows of Stuart Pearce's amateur hour, the media frenzy around Shinawatra's arrival and the accompanying political farce, Sven coming and going and now they're in total fantasy football territory courtesy of their current Abu Dhabi owners having splashed out silly money this summer. They've spent years feeling like the Premiership's media whipping boys, frequently ridiculed and undermined. If they buy the title, then they won't be the first, and I certainly wouldn't begrudge the fans a bit of joy from that either, but I can't say I feel comfortable with where this scale of spending is taking the game of football more generally.

No. Money has already corrupted the beautiful game and I don't want my club to add to that. You'll be quite happy to watch the club being also-rans, then...?

I'm well aware of that, but the point that most City fans are from the NW is still valid and Man U DO have more fans from outside their region than most clubs do - that is undeniable.

So they are - but where does that leave NUFC after we failed to beat them last season(in more than 2 attempts as well..) ??

Cannot understand how some people show such childish envy of Man C by sneering about 'buying the League' etc. Isn't that exactly what KK tried to do back in the mid-90s, when we bought Ferdinand, Barton, Ginola, Shearer and Asprilla ? Nobody who supports NUFC would have complained if we had pipped Man U in 96, even though at that time we were out-spending them... It is just NOT possible to win trophies these days WITHOUT spending a large amount of money on players, but that doesn't mean you should ignore your own Academy system, which is where I differed from KK who placed far less importance on it - spending doesn't guarantee success(witness 96..)but in our case, it should have done. Once we stopped progressing as a club, we fell behind the others and OUT of the top 4, and once that happened we started losing revenue, which meant we fell further behind because top players no longer saw us as an attractive destination ; that HAS to change in future years if the club is to get anywhere NEAR challenging for trophies. I'm pleased for the Man C fans because, as most of them will tell you, they are mainly composed of Mancunians or people from that locality whereas we all know that their rival neighbours are followed by people from well outside the NW - also, they have lived in Man U's shadow for many years and , as younger fans on here will discover if the Mackems make progress and we fail to get promoted, that is not a pleasant feeling...