merlin

There is a nagging doubt in my mind after all the twists & turns in this saga, and that is that clubs such as Birmingham and Pompey have been bought quickly whilst nobody with REAL money seems to want to touch NUFC with a barge-pole. Yes, I know all about being relegated, big debt etc etc...BUT - neither of the 2 clubs mentioned should be mentioned in the same breath as Newcastle United when it comes to what can be achieved in terms of support(including International potential)or recent success in terms of CL qualification etc. Birmingham have never been a regular Prem side OR been in Europe as often as NUFC - their crowds don't approach ours, and neither does their stadium ; the same comments could be made about Pompey and yet both these clubs were bought by people with big money - in Brum's case, a Hong Kong businessman who paid 80m for the club.. The only conclusions that can be drawn from this are ;- 1. The Off-balance sheet items are worse than we think 2. The debt is worse than is believed 3. Potential buyers think that the club is too 'provincially clannish' and therefore only manageable by a local acceptable to the fans(NOT totally true, but there is SOME truth in that - witness those who are pleased the club is relegated so that 'glory-hunters' stop supporting it) 4. Potential buyers are being 'warned off', either by people in the media, influential people in the City of London because of their strained relations with Ashley, OR - worse still - by so-called 'influential' people in the game... There are other factors which could be drawn into play, but these seem the most likely - after all, if you had a chance of buying NUFC for, say, 15m more than Brum, logic dictates that anyone wanting to make a success of the club would plump for Newcastle - even though Brum(and Pompey) are currently in the Prem. Has nobody really asked themselves why such a situation exists, and if they have, has anyone been honest enough to try to accept that, for some reason, these innocuous clubs are seen as more attractive than NUFC..? I have tried to look at this question as a neutral buyer would, and even without any hint of bias, Newcastle seems a better buy than either of those clubs - indeed, there are several clubs currently in the prem who are dead-beats when compared to Newcastle's potential and draw - it would be easier to understand IF - IF NO clubs were being bought because of caution over the financial situation, but this is not the case.. Doesn't this all seem a bit strange to you guys....! There is something wrong here...

With posts like that you make Newcastle United sound like the perfect club for emos, sadsacks and nutcases. ..Now you come to mention it....!!

Have said before that I rated this boy - will be surprised(but pleased)if he is still at SJP by the end of January. Too good for this league and will still improve.

It may well appear to be a "piss easy" league to us right now, but let's see if folks still feel that way when the threadbare nature of our squad combines with fixture congestion, injuries, fatigue and the onslaught of a potential Cup run as well. All of that will take its toil, and if you add in the possibility that we could also be facing all of that without the services of Taylor, Coloccini, Ameobi...whoever else that may be sold... Don't let's go counting chickens just yet, eh? This - the side have done all that could be asked of them so far, but if any more essential players(like Taylor) leave, or we get injuries/suspensions, then the side could struggle. The off-field situation needs sorting out ASAP and a couple of decent recruits brought in before there can be any degree of smugness or complacency about winning promotion ; this is a long season and another 42 games are left, which is plenty of time to slip up. Even if 4 other sides manage to finish better than Newcastle, it will all be wasted...people need to remember that. I will start thinking about trying to tie up promotion IF we are in the same position on the 1st of March....

This - there is no comparison between the situation of the club in 92-93 and today ; we started 92-93 in a settled situation both on AND off the field with a popular manager, motivated players and a settled board under a good Chairman. Nobody needs reminding how different things are today, with at least 3 players in the frame for a move if the right offer comes along and the club's future up in the air.... If indeed we are only 2 points worse off than we were after 11 matches in 92-93 , that will be the time to start some CAUTIOUS optimism... Incidentally, we DID finish as Champions in 92-93 AND with a record points' goals total at that time. Have some people forgotten that game with Leicester on May 9 1993, when we topped it all off by being presented with the Trophy and won 7-1 !?

This game will show just whether this team can be serious promotion contenders. Warnock's sides are renowned for being physical and competitive ; some of our players will get a shock if Palace play anything like Sheff Utd did whilst Warnock was in charge - Coloccini and Jonas in particular will be in for a rude awakening... An away game against this type of opposition is what this league is all about and the team's character will face a tough examination - will be an interesting day.....

I know you were primarily thinking of how to obtain promotion, but when we got promoted in 1993, KK made comparatively few changes to the side and we still managed to finish third in our first season in the Prem - this was because the basic play and ability in the side were good enough to make an impact with the introduction of a few players . David Kelly left(much to many people's surprise and disappointment)but was replaced by Peter Beardsley, whose extra skill was instrumental in creating a record 41 goals for Andy Cole...there were very few other major signings until later in the season. You cannot imagine the basis of THIS team doing anything like that even if they scraped promotion this year, without major signings in some numbers.... The point I am making is that a team CAN play fast, effective football in the CCC - we did in 92-93, going 11 games on a winning streak from the off ; the football got better as we went along(I seem to remember the Luton game at SJP as being the start of really flowing fast passing) until we started to hammer people(Barnsley 6-1, Brentford 5-1, Tranmere 0-3 away and, of course, Leicester(unforgettably)7-1 at SJP as we were confirmed as Champs in May 93. It was obvious that we wouldn't struggle in the Prem although we did better than most imagined before it started), whereas this team would come straight back down unless drastic improvements were made. The reason we played so well for most of the season was that KK was/is a great fan of 5-a-side in training(many fans will confirm that as we used to get more fans watching training at Maiden Castle(Durham) than many Lge 2 sides ever get !!). This sort of training naturally improves movement/passing. KK also signed players like Cole, Venison, Bracewell and Beresford who he knew would adapt to the Prem without any trouble. As to the Large & Large question, it is worth remembering that Kelly and Peacock(then Cole) who were our first choice front 2, were NOT particularly big guys or especially good in the air - it is more a question of all round ability in the side than any particular system. However, I tend to agree that Xisco will NOT be the answer although we need to see a bit more of him at this level - probably as a sub.

A very interesting post, Calimag and you make some good points. Firstly, your friend is correct - in the modern game, pace(combined with good close control)is vital in ALL parts of the team but especially in attack. You need fast forwards but also, good midfielders who have the pace and endurance to burst into and around the penalty area as well as linking with their defence; Terry McDermott was superb at doing this when he played for us and then Liverpool back in the 70s - in fact, he was probably ahead of his time as a player(which is why Liverpool employed his skills so well) although the Dutch sides of the period(Ajax, Feyenoord and their national sides in WC 74 & 78) also had players able to do this(Neeskens was a great example). The time-honoured way of getting past a defence was by using wingers to pull the ball back from the by-line(still the most effective and dangerous play in the game if done correctly), but managers have found ways of negating the impact of specialist wingers by employing more players in midfield to stifle supply to them. In the late 60s/early 70s after England won the WC WITHOUT specialist wingers, their use began to fade so there were less and less players keen to develop specialist wing skills even though Shankly's Liverpool side of the period had TWO in Callaghan and Thompson. Because managers were less keen to play this type of player, they became more & more difficult to find . Eddie Gray of Leeds was possibly the last famous instance of a classic winger's display at a major final when he destroyed Ron Harris in the first Leeds-Chelsea FA Final of 1970... If you come further towards the situation that now prevails, Rob Lee was probably the nearest thing we had to a winger in KK's sides of 1993-97,until Gillespie came along, but he was used more as a 'withdrawn' winger/midfielder from the time we got promoted ; Lee possessed a great shot AND a good engine to support the attack and defence, whereas Gillespie was more of a 'typical' winger who beat defenders on the flanks with pace and got crosses in. Regarding Gullit's use of two big strikers in Shearer and Ferguson, some of this was down to Al himself who felt that Fergie would take some of the weight off him, which he did to some extent but we never really saw the best of Ferguson and neither did Everton. Had we signed him directly from Rangers BEFORE he got involved in off-field controversy and injury, he would have been devastating with Shearer ; I once saw him terrorize the German defence whilst playing for Scotland as a 21 year old.Not only was he good in the air, but had good control for a big man as you rightly point out by using the game V Man U in Feb 2000 as an example. His goal, the first of our 3, was brilliant, controlling a right W cross on the edge of the box with his right foot and flicking it over Stam to volley in with his left....but it was probably his best performance in a B & W shirt overall. The two DID tend to get in each other's way, but Shearer was injured when Fergie first arrived as far as I remember(and Fergie was too, quite often..). On to today;s side - I reckon they are using Carroll & Ameobi together because they have little choice - Owen and Martins have gone, so there is really no-one else who fits the nippy-striker role. As your friend says, I do not believe the two have enough complementary skills to make it a success at the top level but they will do a short-term job until other managers work out their weaknesses and mark them with players who will nullify them. Of the two, I rate Carroll the best prospect despite Ameobi's hat-trick(the only one of his career, incidentally)because Carroll works harder, has a better first touch(although that needs a load of work!) and is more threatening in the air.....unless we sign a proven striker who is more mobile, Ranger will probably get his chance alongside Carroll as he seems more mobile than Ameobi.Carroll is still very raw but has time to improve, which is probably why W.Ham were interested in him. However, we WILL never be a top side until - 1. Our movement/passing improves AT SPEED 2.We start REALLY getting behind defences to create chances - high balls lumped into the box from a spot half-way between the half-way and bye-lines are meat & drink for defenders ; this is why Jonas frustrates me so much because he quite often beats a defender on the flanks in a good position to cross early, then tries to beat the defender again, giving the opposition defence time to mark our strikers/midfielder(IF any have got into the box....!!) To do this, we need the addition of a pacy skillful flank player(not easy to find, esp at this level), and more emphasis on movement/individual skill improvement - some of the current side will NEVER be able to do these things, so there is a stack of hard work ahead before we can get anywhere near being a decent side to make any impact in the Prem when and IF promotion happens.

I've always rated Enrique - will be very surprised if he is still at SJP by the end of January, and, as I've said before, i wouldn't be surprised if Benitez had an interest as they need a LB ; he would do well in a better side.

We're at home, not Hillsborough Btw when Gutierrez had that one on one chance in the first half Apologies - forgot that we were at home again ; however, my comments re ; Sheff Weds' attitude are still relevant - if we beat them as easily as Reading, then maybe things ARE looking up, but there's a long way to go and we are still in a mess.

You mean as in Xisco...!? Carroll has twice the potential Xisco has displayed since he arrived, and is younger - with the right coaching , esp by the likes of Shearer, he would turn out to be an very good CF.

Agreed - should have had a run out.

An easy win against a young and toothless Reading side who are clearly going to struggle without Doyle and Hunt ; Reading will not be among the league's pace setters until their young players mature - we had so much room today it was like a cake-walk... Having said that, the side deserved their win and the passing/movement off the ball was better than for some time. Credit to Ameobi for his goals(and we have to be grateful for small mercies at this point), but he will always struggle against more physical defenders who mark him better than Reading's did - of the two strikers, Carroll impresses me far more, esp at this level, because he is good in the air(laid off some great flicks which weren't used to best advantage), works harder than Ameobi, and is getting better on the ground too ; at his age, he can only improve UNDER THE RIGHT MANAGER whereas Shola has played under the likes of SBR and still hasn't fulfilled his potential... Jonas did far better than last week but continues to frustrate by not crossing/passing as soon as he has beaten the defender - he will insist on trying to do it again...Nolan tried hard and his effort for the cause couldn't be faulted yesterday, and a great cross from Enrique for the first goal ; he is potentially the best crosser of a ball in the club. Smith gives us a great platform by winning the ball at this level, but his timing will ensure that he gets plenty of cards, which we don't need. Taylor will be missed if he does leave - the thought of Coloccini as main CB is frightening... At least the club now has 4 points and this gives a bit of breathing space while all the off-field fiascos are sorted out - it will be interesting to see how this team perform at Hillsborough on Wednesday and I will be surprised if Sheff Weds don't get in their faces far more than Reading did.

If the fee mentioned is correct, then the club is getting a fantastic price for a player who had 'gone' when he joined NUFC. Nevertheless, the club are getting very thin on the ground for experienced players and if Taylor also goes(some say this will happen next Tuesday), the squad will be paper thin, both in quality and numbers. Very few of the youngsters look ready so there will have to be signings, but with what ? Clearly, these sales are aimed at reducing debt so that Moat(or whoever)can get backing from the Banks by showing the club's finances in a better light but that means that money will be tight for recruiting new players. I reckon that the club is now in as bad a situation as it was after relegation in 1978, and possibly worse ; at least we had a manager(McGarry)who, whilst not being the best around, had a fair bit of experience with success at both Ipswich and Wolves.He signed up players like Peter Withe from Forest as well as Alan Shoulder(a snip) from Blyth Spartans and even Chris Waddle just before he was fired..... Consider the club's position now, with the possibility of Ashley having to keep it and maybe appointing Kinnear as manager again ; even if Moat takes over, there will not be much money for players so I reckon it will be a tough season ahead - whoever is manager will face a huge task in getting the club promoted before 2012.

Yes, this is correct. Also, why anyone is surprised when a footballer - esp a foreign one - shows no club loyalty when the club he plays for operates in such a shambolic way ? Too much naivety shown by some fans - footballers DO NOT CARE about fans, esp if they are from a different country(or even a different region). My only problem with the Bassong deal is that the price was too low but that is the penalty you pay for being relegated, on the market, and in debt....

No, its NOT just you - to be honest, I am amazed that this guy has been at SJP anywhere near as long as he has, and also that managers including SBR, have stuck with him for so long. We all know his failings so managers MUST see them too and I cannot understand this situation. He is slow, ponderous,has a poor first touch, poor in the air(mostly)for a big man and far too laid back in his attitude. Even though Ranger was only on the field for a few minutes, you could see that he possesses far more speed off the mark and willingness to work than Ameobi ; I'm beginning to grasp at conspiracy theories, because I would have had him gone within 6 months of seeing him in action. For all he is 6 years younger, Carroll is a far more effective target man, and I wouldn't play Ameobi if Carroll was fit, although we do need another forward until Ranger gets more experience and develops more physically.

Cannot believe that some people think Jonas and Coloccini 'just need to brush up' on this or that aspect of their game - these guys are in their mid to late 20s, there is NO WAY they are going to 'improve' now. They are ARGENTINE INTERNATIONALS for goodness' sake ; they DON'T WANT TO BE HERE...!!! No wonder Newcastle United fans get a reputation for being deluded(AND easily pleased)....

No he hasn't - his distribution is awful, shooting is abysmal and has had just about no end product since he got here. If we can get a fee for him and get him off the wage bill 100% then I'd bite some teams hands off. THIS - Jonas is a liability, esp in this league, and the side needs a more direct and focussed player on the flanks who can at least cross a ball properly ; Rob Lee made Jonas look third-rate. He HAS to go, as has Coloccini as soon a decent replacements can be signed.

Positives - Krul(saved the point by some excellent stops) ; will be a great keeper if he continues in this vein. Ranger ; has more speed off the mark than Ameobi and deserves more chances this season. Carroll ; always thought he had the raw talent - with the right manager, could become a good CF. Negatives - Guttierez ; far too casual, same old failings with supplying crosses, no good for this div, has to go. Coloccini ; could have cost us the game on a number of occasions, esp when Moore left him for dead and Krul made a fantastic stop with his foot - MUST BE SOLD QUICKLY,DOES NOT WANT TO BE HERE. Overall, the team lacks incisiveness up front, is too slow to build up attacks and will struggle to create real chances with what is currently in the forward line and midfield ; Smith looks as if he will be useful as a midfield destroyer at this level and Taylor also looks the part in the Fizzy Pop but R.Taylor is a bit-part player - reminds me of Kevin Brock just before KK arrived in 92, but with less skill...! Do not agree that WBA will be the toughest test - they, like NUFC, are a newly-relegated side, still attempting to play football as before ; some of the other teams in this div will be far more physical and give Newcastle less time to play, so there will be some shocks along the way for those who think the side will walk through this league...they will have noted how easily Coloccini can be rattled and how vulnerable is R.Taylor at RB as well as how Guttierez can be run into blind alleys.... As some have said, this reminds me of the first game last season - also finished 1-1.......

If Spurs(or anyone else)get Bassong for 8m after Martins went for 9m, then the club has once again been made to look mugs. Bassong has 4 times the potential that Martins has, is younger and can play at the top level for far longer as he is a defender ; Wouldn't have let him go for less that 10m... The club will really struggle at the back if they are depending on Taylor and Coloccini to do the business.

Sorry to hear this sad but not unexpected news. Sir Bobby had a wonderful life as he said and will always be held in special regard for the job he did in saving NUFC from relegation and building a side that reached the CL. A`pity he didn't come to the club earlier - many fans in different countries will mourn his passing.

I thank Kev profusely for what he did in the mid-90's. And there it should have ended. His tantrum throwing got on my tits too. It did in the 90's as well. I still think if we'd persevered with Dalglish he WOULD have got it right. We didn't, and since then has been one cock up after another, bar the good times when Sir Bob was well. And then he lost it, mainly due to the immature turds like Dyer Jenas and Bellamy. A great post - spot on. The Dalglish sacking was a disgrace because we hadn't even lost a game at the start of a season. Carried out by a Chairman who was seeking popularity among impatient fans and not forgetting Dalglish's spat with Fletcher a few weeks beforehand.... Dalglish had his hands tied by the Board/PLC yet still managed some great signings including Hamman, Solano and Given ; if Shearer had not got injured at Everton pre-season, I reckon it would have become almost impossible for the board to fire Dalglish.

Agreed - would snap their hands off for 9m ; I wouldn't have even paid 5m for him.

Hard question - Keegan has the experience and a fair track record but is now probably getting beyond management ; Shearer is 'Today's Man', but has no track record and will be faced with a terrible situation IF he becomes manager - this could either make him or break him. As I have said before, IF Celtic had not snapped up Mowbray, I would have tried to get him ; he is still young and has a proven record of getting second-rate clubs into an improved position and this is what will be required at SJP. In any event, the new owners would have to have decent credibility to attract ANY of the a/m names.....

We are in total agreement - would be best departure from club since Shepherd & Co went....