merlin

We need Ericksson like a hole in the head - would make the club even more of a joke with the media, has not got the necessary motivation(too much dosh), would be soft on players like Dyer, Ameobi etc., and just would NOT appeal to the majority of fans(not involved enough, too clinical, and his teams play awful football). This next appointment will be crucial for Shepherd - any cock-ups, and he can start packing his bags(see my post on the 'Quinn/Keane doing us a favour' article).

I have long thought that Sunderland being successful under Quinn & Keane would put a huge boot up the backside of a complacent Newcastle United. As a fan for more than 40 years, it gives me no great pleasure to see the mackems being successful, but fans of our generation can at least give credit where its due - and it most certainly IS due to the current SAFC outfit. Both chairman and manager have done wonders there in a very short time , and , unlike the Murray days, they now have a realistic chance of attracting good players and building the club into a real threat to NUFC's standing as top NE club. Futhermore, they will aim to achieve MORE than this, which in itself is a greater target than the current Board of NUFC seem to want. The days of complacency for the Board, Management AND supporters of Newcastle United are coming to an end - and not before time in my opinion. The club has under-performed for a few seasons now, and a successful Sunderland will put huge pressure on the Board - Newcastle supporters can take anything as long as SAFC are below them, but any reversal of that position for an extended period would have the riot police being called to SJP..!! Bring it on, I say - the fans of Newcastle United have been taken for granted for too long, and the club has thrown away many chances of becoming truly successful - it is ironic that I , as a former Magpie Group member, am having to rely on the success of our traditional rivals to shake the club out of its self-imposed slumber. Shepherd is now about to find out how tough life can be as a Chairman of a club under pressure, and we are going to see just how tough he actually IS, instead of hearing him brag about it. Now that Roeder has gone, he MUST get the next appointment right - any more cock-ups and he will be gone faster than snow in June - the mackems got it right with Keane, but it was a gamble that paid off ; will the same thing work with Shearer..?? Finally, those who take pleasure in slamming O'Neill should wait until this time NEXT year before passing judgement - my bet is that he'll prove you wrong; he spent a fraction of the money Roeder has, yet is above NUFC.....

I've said this before - judge O'Neill NEXT season ; he didn't get to Villa quick enough to make major changes before the season started. Roeder, on the other hand, had a FULL Close Season to get 'his' signings bedded-in, but despite 15m being spent, NUFC are only 7 points from a relegation place... If Villa are in the same position as NUFC this time NEXT season, then yes, I'll hold my hands up and say O'Neill isn't a top-notcher - as the article says, he has been successful at the vast majority of clubs he has managed. Roeder could yet get into the Guinness Book of Records as the first manager to finish 7th in his first season with 3 different clubs, then get them relegated in the following season...!! If anyone is trying to take some comfort from Villa's position now because the got MON and we didn't, my advice is DON'T - wait until next season. Remember the saying - 'He who laughs last laughs longest'.....

Lowes is partly right - a few humiliations at the hands of a Keane-managed Sunderland MIGHT - MIGHT- just cause enough anger and outrage among the blindly-loyal to cause them to boycott SJP for a season or two. Maybe THAT would force Shepherd out, because nothing else will, and it will take something like that before NUFC is in a position to shake out of the downward spiral. Oh, and before anyone says it couldn't happen - don't kid yourselves - NUFC are JUST as capable of becoming like the Mackems were because they are run badly - end of story..

Well, Gentlemen(and Ladies),it doesn't matter HOW sick you are of NUFC, you had better get used to it. The club had its opportunity of Domestic glory(the first in 40 years)back in the mid-90's and sadly, the moment passed without success being grasped. Had the club won its first Championship since 1927 in 1996, I believe that it would now be firmly established as one of the powers in the English game.For a variety of reasons, this did not happen, but what has transpired since is nothing short of tragic, but also a disgrace. As England's second best supported HOME side(until the building of the Emirates stadium)NUFC should at least have been able to compete for Champs Lge football every season. The club's potential was wasted at a crucial time, and the 'New World Order' of the English game now has an almost unbreakable stranglehold on both power-broking and honours. I do NOT want to drag up all the 'well, we had a crap Board in the 70's/80s' arguments - the indisputable truth is that NUFC reached a position where those days should never have been repeated, and now they ARE. When I was a younger fan in those days, we 'kept the faith' as some euphemistically call it, by hoping that someone would eventually come along and take the club over from the people who were holding it back, BUT - we didn't have any doubt that the club could take its place among the top sides in the country - even the legendary Peter Robinson, C.E.of Liverpool in their great days acknowledged on a TV programme, that NUFC had a greater potential support than Liverpool themselves.. The situation today is totally different ; even if a takeover was to occur(very unlikely, given the amount of debt & Shepherd's unwillingness to sell), it would take a mammoth effort to unseat any of the top 4 now - they are too well entrenched. I also believe that there is a real chance of disillusion setting in among many Premiership fans, as the league is now similar to Scotland - only a very few clubs can win it - and prices ar very high for Season tickets(esp if Interest Rates go up,which looks likely in May..) Whatever certain people on here think of Sir John , he DID give us the chance to be a top club again - that chance was not taken, and until someone else comes along with a new broom, the chance will not be there again. If you are happy with that, then keep the faith - if not... However, don't complain, because even if you don't want to admit it, you can see the writing on the wall. Not that I don't understand - I remember back in 1969, after we won the Fairs Cup, visiting a customer in Langley Park(SBR's old home), and waxing lyrical about Newcastle - he stunned me by saying ' You don't go to watch NEWCASTLE, do you !??' When I asked him why not, he said that he used to go in the 50's('They were a GOOD side then..!'), but the club's decline & Directors had finished him.. Don't forget, this was just after we had won a European Trophy..!! Naturally, I thought he was crackers and 'kept the faith' , but look how long it took even to change the Board - another 22 years..!! Yes, go if you want, hope you enjoy - but don't expect any miracles .

This is a pointless debate - NEITHER of these guys would even LOOK at NUFC as a job in the present situation. You actually ought to be debating who would even TAKE the job at all.. The man whose team defeated us on Thursday would have been tempted some years ago, but I doubt that he would now. Cannot see Roeder surviving beyond this season, but best hope for a replacement is possibly someone like Houllier - not my preferred candidate, but the best the club is likely to get.

If you believe that, you'll believe anything - Shepherd doesn't need ANYONE to jold him back from running the Club properly - he's quite capable of doing that on his own...

Some members of the Magpie Group(including myself)would have liked the club to try for Van Gaal after KK resigned, but he was virtually on his way to Barcelona at the time.Strangely enough, SBR was in charge at the Nou Camp then, and SJH asked him to come to SJP to take over.Robson knew that Barca were after Van Gaal, but wouldn't resign.He was sacked shortly afterwards, and we had appointed Dalglish by then. I think the guy would, overall, do a good job at SJP - he is very knowledgeable about the game and his experience/trophies speak for themselves. If he has a weakness, it is that he IS very attack-minded when caution may be a better option, but many NUFC fans are like that. Also, many players are not exactly cerebral, and his tactics may go over the heads of some of our squad(no names mentioned..!!!) He would NOT tolerate any interference from the boardroom etc., so I cannot see him being at the top of the Chairman's list to replace GR, and if the club finishes in the top 10 after reaching the semis of the UEFA, GR will still be there next year...... In summary, an interesting idea, but one that doesn't look likely at present.

Eh? People are calling him a fat aussie because he's fat and from Australia, not because we think all Australians are fat. Also, you might be interested to know that Australia isn't in Europe. He'd have been extremely poor value for money if we'd have signed him and if that was also at the expense of Milner going as well, that would have been a disgrace. Australia not in Europe? I would never have guessed....!! Tell you what, son, I'll let you into a secret.....THAT IS WHY I MOVED THERE ! Don't want to be run by a bunch of unelected parasites form the EU - YOU pay their Road Tolls, Recycling taxes if you want...I don't. And as for sticking up for them - I'm merely reporting what was stated in a UK NEWSPAPER(NO Not the Chronicle..!!).

Viduka would have been a great signing, but NOT at the expense of Milner going. Viduka is great at holding up the ball and laying it off - would have benefitted the likes of Martins and Owen(once fit). He also gets a decent number of goals, some of which are skilfully-taken. As for those calling him a 'Fat Aussie', let me remind you that the UK OFFICIALLY has the largest waistlines in Europe...methinks the pot is calling the kettle here !

Agreed - has pace, a good shot and can jump well for small striker, BUT - cannot control the ball quickly enough,does not have the mobility to pull defenders out of place, looks disinterested at times.Will always get a few goals, but will NEVER ne atop striker like Henry, Shearer etc.

The way things are going at SJP, the club have about as much chance of signing Tevez as they have of getting Ronaldinho,Henry,Ashton et al - i.e. NO Chance. Tevez is still young and has great talent but it will probably take a move to Spain to see the best of him. People like Huntelaar are also complete non-starters ; get used to it - NUFC are now seen as second-raters and will be scrapping amongst the rest of the also-rans for top class players. I would bet that we wouldn't even win a contest with Allardyce over a proposed signing, let alone O'Neill - that's how far the club has dropped in 4 years . P.S.Changed my mind over Ashton - we MIGHT have a chance, but only if he looks like carrying his ankle injury for a long time....! Remember the comments of Hamman, when asked why he left Newcastle -'The Board was average, so the Club was average...'

AGREED !!!

Shepherd must be thrilled - at least TWO Season Tickets he's sure of selling....

Those with a brain knew he was not the answer before he was appointed full-time - NUFC fans are too easily satisfied and put up with anything the Club dishes out to them. The Chairman wanted Roeder because he would fit in with his plans - nothing else. No point in sacking him until season is over at the earliest - even then, it will be very hard to find a quality replacement - the Chairman's reputation goes before him..... Unless a boycott forces Shepherd out(as likely as me winning the Lottery, and I don't buy a ticket.!) only a takeover will change anything. The club is in a real mess now, and next season will not be much better - AND the Mackems are coming up.... Roeder or Keane - which will it be !!

Any pretence (or effort) to being a club aiming at the top 6 of the Prem disappeared in the summer of 2003 when Robson was refused cash to build on a successful Champs League campaign. You can use your own judgement to assess the reasons why this happened(I have my own views...). The choice of a successor to SBR was woeful, and done in desperation(a successor should have been lined up months previously, and SBR moved upstairs). The repercussions of this decision will be felt for many years(we've already had 2) - the only solution is a complete takeover of the Club, and no-one seems willing to pick up THAT poisoned chalice(too much debt). Roeder's team selections have been poor and lacking in courage(what can one expect ? He's there to suit the Chairman), so up & down results will always happen in such circumstances. The current side's results are similar to those of the 70s teams - WITHOUT the entertainment ! We would beat Leeds Utd(top dogs of the day) one week, lose to Stoke/Sts/Leicester etc the next. Also, we were hopeless away from home, but would get the OCCASIONAL shock win(like the one at Spurs this season).....see any parallels!! Fans kept turning up, but eventually, Cup humiliations forced Joe Harvey out and Lee came in. People knocked him, but he got the Club to the Final of the L/Cup(v Man City) and the quarters of the FA Cup despite the team being hit by a Flu epidemic at the time. The team had a good team spirit, and scored plenty of goals.The following season, we were doing well in the league(even after Macdonald was sold), but the Board refused Lee the money to replace Supermac(he wanted Francis), and when Everton came calling, Lee was off. Player Power brought Dinnis in, and although it was the Chairman who wanted Roeder, the situation is now the same - except for the fact that Dinnis took over a winning side which qualified for Europe.He wasn't backed by the board over signing - guess who!? - Graeme Souness from M/Bro, and Souness went to L/Pool. A pity - he would have been much more use as a player than he was as a manager... However, until JH came along in the late 80s, we WERE mediocre - two relegations(1978/1989), two promotions(1984/1993 - after JH's takeover & KK coming in). Mediocrity has been the standard at NUFC for most of the past 40 years - only from 1993 until 2003 have the club been anything like a force in the game - despite its large fan-base - and thsi will continue - sadly - for the forseeable future. Being 'top dog' in the NE seems to be all that many fans care about - until they become more demanding and withold cash(i.e don't go) Fred will remain and pick up the cash.IF all you want is a day out on Saturday - fine - its your choice.Misplaced loyalty will NOT bring an end to mediocrity, so get used to it. One day, things may change,but its not going to happen yet.

Keane has done well, and will, I think, keep them up if they get promoted - as for becoming NE top dogs, well, its not such a demanding task, is it !? We may not like Keane but he HAS determination, AND a better Chairman that Roeder...! Both qualities would be enough, given a season or so, to give them Top Dog status. Should a takeover happen at SJP within a year or so, things would then be very different...... As for Mowbray - I'm a great fan of the guy. Would have been happy to see him replace Souness, has done a great job at Hibs, and looks like repeating it at WBA. Met him once, impressed by his honesty, knowledge, and down-to-earth attitiude - will be astonished if he doesn't make a top manager.If I was taking over NUFC, he would definitely be on the list of potential managers.

Would take Ashton like a shot IF his fitness proves to be OK following the ankle injury - Kewell was never the same player after his....Ashton would be a great foil for either Martins OR Owen, though rumours persist about whether one or either of them will still be at SJP next season. Distin would be a good signing for little money, and a decent Left Back is a MUST; Carr/Babayaro to be moved on, more chance given to Edgar - also think Troisi may come through next season, so maybe Emre will go.

Agree with this totally - its just plain stupid to blame kids for wanting to support these other teams/players.At one time, there was a possibility of NUFC becoming as big as any in the land(AND most in Europe), but those days have gone now, and probably for ever. The last few years of mismanagement have occurred at a time when the top 4 clubs were becoming virtually unchallengeable due to the money they were receiving from their success, and like it or not, money and success are what people want in this day & age. Kids get far too much in my opinion - all this crap about 'Peer pressure' etc is just down tp lazy & weak parents not being able to tell a child 'NO', so they get most of what they want materially. Its not good for anyone and makes people very selfish, but to expect them to suddenly be automatic fans of a club which has not won a trophy for 38 years and has suffered humiliation on and off the field, when they get 'the best' in other areas of life is like expecting a fox to keep chickens as pets ! Life has moved on guys - wake up & smell the coffee.Be honest - if you bought a decent holiday & got crap accomm., you'd be on to the Company like a shot.Likewise, if you have a decent motor and it starts giving trouble, you'd(rightly)be complaining bitterly to the Dealer and expect it put right. People have more choices than ever now, in every walk of life - trying to sell a vision of 'Gang Loyalty' doesn't work anymore, and the sooner Shepherd & Co realise this, the better it will be - I just hope its not too late, but I wouldn't bet on things changing soon as there now appears to be no hope of change on the horizon.

I really don't believe that Roeder would be so stupid. That kind of comment would inevitably backfire if he knew it wasn't true. This has Shepherd's fingerprints all over it. I don't expect the club to buy players, but I do expect honesty. don't think Shepherd has been honest to either fans or manager. You're expecting Shepherd to be HONEST with the fans...!!?

Kevin Keegan dramatically revived fortunes of the club, by saving NUFC from relegation to third tier of English football, and then bringing us in next few seasons to the very brink of winning Premier League title. Without him and Sir John Hall, Sir Bobby Robson wouldn't even have a chance to do much for the club, as without him our position would be so much different. Still, Keegan's fame will be overshadowed to some extent if any NUFC manager succeeds in winning either PL or FA Cup in this decade or early in the next one. Sir Bobby Robson is no doubt a true legend, but in most part not for what he did as NUFC manager. Remember too, that SBR was also asked to become manager by Lord Westwood in 1975, to replace the retiring Joe Harvey. Robson was at Ipswich then, but despite his being a 'dyed-in-the-wool' Black & White, he refused. This was at a time when he could have really done well - he was only 42 then. However, Lord Westwood & Co had a bad reputation for lack of genuine ambition(selling top players), so no doubt that had some bearing on Robson's refusal and you can understand that. I have less sympathy with his refusal to take the job after SJH asked him when KK left - he said that it was due to his sense of loyalty to Barca, but everyone and his Uncle knew that Barca were going to replace him with Van Gaal - I reckon Bobby wanted the contract pay-off , but that was his decision.What is indisputable is that we would have been in a much better state at that time, he was a few years younger - there was a load of money for players, and I reckon we might just have grabbed the title within a year or so. There is no doubt he did a very good job during his first 4 years, even though he DID make some poor value signings, but he should have gone gracefully at the end of 2003/4 - had lost the Dressing Room and the Club needed a strong(but RESPECTED!)new broom - NOT Souness. SBR definitely among top 3 NUFC managers of all time, but that is not saying much - he was at his best before he arrived.

It would be interesting to hear the views of those who saw most of these returnees as to whether their second spell was as good as the first ; the only one who really stands out for me was Beardsley - had a great second spell at the club under KK. Hibbitt was a limited success, John Craggs hardly played after he signed again. Terry Mac was also reasonable, but not as good as when he played at the Club between 71-74. Elliott nowhere near his best on the second stint(too many injuries).

That's a great post Mick - Agree totally.

Agree. I also think that those who slate Bolton for the type of football they play wouldn't give a toss what Newcastle played like if they were winning. Not that I think Bolton are so bad anyway because I don't. Allardyce may also be a different manager if he had bigger resources. By far the biggest factor for me is the fact that he is a stayer, he's been there for years, and improved them and kept improving them. Put against the fact that he can man-manage players, there are many players at Bolton who have been around and they respond to Allardyce, nobody wants to leave Bolton. Gary Speed has said that he is a manager who players listen to when he speaks. This is massively important for a club like Newcastle, it is huge. It makes me even more convinced that Allardyce would have been the man for us. Having said that, I am prepared to back Roeder which is something I never felt about Souness and Gullit too in fact, personally. Agree with most of what you say, but the title of this thread is a comparison between Roeder & O'Neill, not Roeder/O'Neill & Allardyce.