merlin

From NUFC I reckon Geoff Allen would have been one of the best Left wingers in the game - only older fans will remember him. He was a bit of a late developer, really blossoming aged 21 against Feyenoord in our first Fairs Cup game at SJP- he took Van Der Heide, Feyenoord's international right back, to the cleaners that night ; his twists & turns, acceleration & crossing were the architects of our amazing 4-0 win. He was hammered down by Peter Hindley, Notts Forest R/back at the City ground not much later that season - the side were winning 4-1, and Hindley couldn't cope with Allen. His Cruciate ligaments were damaged(a'la Gazzer), and in 1968, that was it. He tried to come back at least twice, but it was no good - 20 years later, it could have been different.. Went to his Testimonial and he still looked great that night, but he was in real pain after every game. Joe Harvey always said it was the club's greatest loss.

This. People didn't simply turn on him because of that, Dyer had a lot of detractors way before the Robson incident. The reason being that his performances never matched the hype. Dyer strolled his way through long parts of seasons living off his “promising youngster” reputation and the imaginary transfer to Leeds. His lifestyle and personal choices don’t exactly make him appealing to most supporters. He alone sums up our failures as a club in the past 10 years. A serial injury prone underachiever who is on ridiculously high wages, yet produces virtually no end product. Someone loves the celebrity lifestyle and took advantage of those who helped him get to where he was. Despite all the money and the all the potential he and we as a club have done nothing since he joined. Top Post - sums it all up.

Its all very well to laugh.....! Here in Australia, Emu Oil(NOT S---)has been used by the Aborigines for years, both as a treatment for aches/pains etc and other ailments. In fact, I buy it from a guy who breeds them about 20 miles away - he is in his 80's and uses a drop on his breakfast every day - it has reduced his cholesterol from 6.3 to 3.8(this happened within 2 months of taking the stuff).His face & skin have very few wrinkles, so I've started doing the same(not EVERY day, mind..!!)and no probs so far. Sam might just be on to something here - at the very least, it will give Dyer one less excuse for not being fit....!!

There may yet be someone signed who warrants the job - lets wait & see...

I just wish everyone would forget about Beckham AND his ridiculous wife - if ever we needed someone NOT to represent English Football its him (AND her). Most overrated England Captain of all time in my opinion, would not even have got into 66 side if he had been available then. Would never have attained the number of caps he has if ; a) Someone other than Eriksson had been manager b)There had been a greater choice of English players Should never have played in 2004 Euro Champs - was a disgrace. I bet the Yanks soon suss them both out...

Couldn't agree more with this, however, the buck always stops at someone. Now it is the owner. I don't know if Ashley will be your chairman or will appoint someone else, but Lerner is ours, so strictly speaking our chairman can't be sacked. He doesn't report to anyone but himself, has no shareholders to consider, and does what he wants. For us, Ellis did the same in practise, but even with his sycophant and relative-stuffed board, and other shareholders, there was at least *some* element of control. With people like Ashley or Lerner, I don't think we have any real reason to be overly suspicious of their motives. The worst they can realistically want to do is make money ... and to be honest, in our case, any Villa fan who doesn't think that the first thing Lerner thought when he started buying the club was "f****** hell, that's way undervalued" is naive. What is now apparent in our support, and I am intrigued by your situation, is that further down the line, we now have a situation where we're so f****** relieved to be rid of the old guard, and the new guard are looking excellent in (almost) all they have done, that there is a culture of "how dare you complain, how f****** ungrateful" which surpresses anyone criticising or questioning the new regime, however valid or constructive that criticism. Faith is excellent, blind faith is naive and dangerous, and that, for me, is why we need to maintain this healthy scepticism. Would agree with most of this, Brummie.

I reckon everyone is just going to have to get used to a very different attitude at NUFC now. Ashley has a reputation for doing things quietly and keeping a low profile whereas NUFC has always been a high-profile club - for the WRONG reasons.That has been all too clear to most fans during the past 3 years... It IS frustrating when you see other Clubs signing good players, but look what happened at Villa when they got taken over last year. The time to worry is if we start the season with no MORE new signings, esp in defence - there is no doubt we will be weak there, but if we get 3 more decent defenders, we should be OK ; not Top 4 material, but OK; the squad is too weak at present if we get injuries. Personally, I am sick of hearing the club linked with this player & that player without any real foundation in the rumour - it will be much better if we get back to the situation we had when KK was in charge ; they went out & signed someone without the Press etc knowing it was coming(Andy Cole, Tino, Batty, Shearer etc). I've always thought this season would not be a dramatic transformation, but as long as progress is being made(we DO need at least UEFA Football at the end of it), I will be reasonably satisfied - anything less than that will be disappointing.

All this is VERY VERY interesting - I sincerely hope that ALL the guilty parties(if any, of course..!!)are exposed and receive the appropriate punishment for any activities which may have resulted in loss of money to both fans & shareholders.. I really look forward to hearing some on this site trying to defend culprits, should there be any - I believe there has been some interesting behind-the-scenes activity since Mort took over... If we ever get to know the full story(which I doubt)its going to make brilliant reading ! It looks like there may still be some justice in this world....

And now for the core question of this thread, do you KNOW this for a FACT or are you, as I suspect, just PRESUMING..? Yes - I'm PRESUMING - just as I'm PRESUMING that the sun will come up tomorrow..! None of us know that for a fact, but its a reasonable assumption - just as reasonable as assuming that a VERY successful modern businessman, who has just paid a king's ransom for a football club with prospects, will allow his managers to do the job themselves - failure to do so will result in the sack but I am willing to bet that Ashley WILL allow Allardyce a crack of the whip...its a matter of personal opinion whether you think he will be better than Shepherd - I happen to think he WILL, but you, of course, are entitled to your own opinion - WHICH IS...! you have the same faith in Ashley as in the Sun coming up? I think that says it all tbh It doesn't actually say ANYTHING other than what is written there, Mr Kent Man ! YOU can't guarantee that the Sun will rise any more than I can guarantee Ashley's success - you go to bed EXPECTING you will get a sunrise, but as sure as hell one day there WON'T be... This is probably the only time I'll reply directly to one of your posts - you spend a great deal of time winding people up on this site but I've got better things to do than get involved with pratting about in tit-for-tat exchanges with you or anyone else on here ; you've got your opinion - that's fine by me ; I've got mine... We'll soon see what Ashley does - if you really ARE a fan of NUFC, you'd better hope its going to be better than before - or would you prefer to see Shepherd in total charge once again....!??

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind. Eh. believe it or not we were. We hae never liked Pareira or his team, in fact the 94 champions was elected as Brazils worst team ever to play in a World Cup. Brazil have the two best teams of all time the 1970 world champions and the 2002 world champions. Its a fact! '58 was better than them both. No they were not my friend. 1982 was supposed to be best team with at that time best players in the world like Falcao, Socrates and Zico. Oh god, what a team they had. Problem was they only attacked attacked and attacked. They lost to Italy because they couldnt play defensive football and cause Dino Zoff was a monster that day. 1970 was though the proof that magic does exist. 58' team was good no doubt with players like Vava, Pele (only 17 years old) and Garrincha (better then Maradona and all these other guys, even Pele i would say). 2002 was the example of a team which grew by everygame and had a brilliant attacking football as well as a modern day built defence with big and stron but also technical defenders. COACHHTT/// Honestly ive never heard that much b***s*** in my life. Africa will never overtake Brazil, remember that Africa for many years have been using false info for their players during Olympic games. theyre all 4 years older then what you think. Martins is 28 remember Some great points here, Felipao - agree with nearly all of this. TOTALLY agree with your assertion that Africa will never overtake Brazil - this has been an old chestnut for years(ever since 74 when Zaire qualified)and all the pundits have been saying this at every WC since - we're still waiting, and we still will be in 20 years' time....!! I'm a great admirer of Brazilian football & hope they always try to play as they can - its great to watch!

And now for the core question of this thread, do you KNOW this for a FACT or are you, as I suspect, just PRESUMING..? Yes - I'm PRESUMING - just as I'm PRESUMING that the sun will come up tomorrow..! None of us know that for a fact, but its a reasonable assumption - just as reasonable as assuming that a VERY successful modern businessman, who has just paid a king's ransom for a football club with prospects, will allow his managers to do the job themselves - failure to do so will result in the sack but I am willing to bet that Ashley WILL allow Allardyce a crack of the whip...its a matter of personal opinion whether you think he will be better than Shepherd - I happen to think he WILL, but you, of course, are entitled to your own opinion - WHICH IS...!

Said before - not going to be easy to get the really good players ; I understand how impatient fans are to see some really decent signings, but you just have to look at what has happened so far - only Man U & Liverpool have really made a few top class signings and this is because ;- a) they are in a more settled situation than NUFC right now b) they are perceived by players as clubs going places. Does anyone honestly believe that we could have competed for either Torres or Babel against Liverpool at this time ? No, thought not - and yet, 5 years ago we were perceived as the club with better prospects... It will take hard graft & time before we are in that position again - if ever, although we have to believe we can do it....the last 3 years have left NUFC's reputation in tatters and even before THAT we hadn't won anything since 1969 - players look at those things when making decisions about where to go ; those of you who don't want 'results-based' football should remember that when ANOTHER top player goes elsewhere...

That wasn't me quoting myself, I was quoting Shepherd who was complaining that HE couldnt run the club, HE not THEM. He also said that HE wasn't prepared to put up with it. Are you calling him a liar? If Allardyce is successful, who will you credit ? If he isn't, who will you blame ? Why don't you answer ? Are you stupid, can you read mackems.gif the answer to both are ashley. Correct - because Ashley will give Allardyce a free rein(within reason)to run the team as he wishes, and that INCLUDES recruitment /disposal of players which was a privilege NOT granted at ALL TIMES to his managers by Shepherd ; note I said ALL times....! I doubt that Ashley would enforce a player on Allardyce simply because HE thought it was an eye-catching deal, but that remains to be seen - what is NOT in doubt is that Ashley is going to have a more professional approach and personal gain is not a major issue with him - he's got more than enough already.

Regarding the signature of Pele in the 70's - of COURSE we would have been delighted..we signed Supermac in 71 for what was then a record 180,000 pounds and to be honest, I wondered where the money had come from! Go forward 25 years and Shearer arrives for a record 15m, and the whole place goes berserk - quite rightly as he was probably in the top 3 CFs in the world at the time, but this time , I DIDN'T wonder where the money had come from because we were a top 3 side, earning millions from off-field activities and we knew we'd get it back. The difference with a deal like the pie-in-the-sky piece in the NOTW is that we WOULDN'T get the money back - even if Ashley used the guy as a promotional tool for shirts etc I doubt whether it would make commercial sense simply because we are currently a run-of-the-mill side - it would be different if we had just won, say, the Prem & FA Cup because it would look as if we were going places & neutrals around the world would be swept up in all the Ronaldinho mania & buy the stuff. There are also other issues - regardless of his great talent, the guy is not going to get any better as he gets older AND he doesn't have the loyalty that a player like Shearer did because of his local connections so the chances are that it wouldn't be a long stay and you would need at least 5 years to try to even attempt to make economic sense of the transfer. At this point in time, there is almost NO WAY this guy would sign for us - another year or two, who knows, but would you want him then..? Better in my view to take a chance on an up & coming player like Huntelaar for less than half the cost - less injury-prone(younger),no problem with climate etc(remember Mira's hamstrings..!?) Pele in 1970 would have been brilliant - we had just won the Fairs Cup , he had just been part of Brazil's best-ever side and there wasn't as much difference between top div clubs in England as there is now. However, he was then 29 and had had loads of injuries - it wouldn't have lasted long, but boy, what a player he was ! If you watch some of his flashes of genius(the shot from well within his own half during the 70 WC game with the Czechs)and his outrageous dummy against the Uruguay goalkeeper in the same tournament, which would have been the goal of all time had his shot gone in)just show why he was a really great player AND he gave no problems off the field - my all-time choice as best forward in the world. All nice dreams, but we have reality to face, and a hard slog to get back to even the top 5 - luxury players are not going to do that for us..

Brazil will ALWAYS be the most consistent WC winners and the most entertaining National side - its in their blood. May have down spells , but like the Terminator - 'they'll be back!....'

Shepherd is Chairman in name - for NOW... Probably given the position as an agreement with Ashley to sell his shares quickly without a battle in order to salve ego - will be astonished if he is still there after Season's end. His son's expulsion indicates how much power Shepherd actually has now...

Until we show consistent ambition by results & performances, we are not going to attract the top players - I've said this before, but it continues to amaze me that people think the best players are going to fall over themselves to come to SJP at this point in time. We have, over the past 3 years, become a mid-table side AT BEST - all caused by bad Direction & bad management ; nothing more, nothing less. No Bad Fairy has suddenly put a curse on us and swept us into the underworld - it has all been self-created. The fans are NOT to blame for this(other than being too easily conned by the people running the club), and there is no reason why they shouldn't have had high expectations - IN THE PAST.. We now have to face a period of regaining the club's self-respect and this will take time - it would be a help if we had a good crop of youngsters coming through whose loyalties are with the club, but we haven't enough. That being the case, Sam has to get the best he can obtain in the circumstances, and I believe he is doing that - does anyone seriously doubt that Gudjohnsen would be hesitating about joining us if we were in the CL..?? The fans have to give Sam & the team time, but I defend them totally from accusations of fickleness etc. How can ANYONE who purports to be a NUFC fan accuse his fellow-supporters of that ? They had EVERY right to complain about things in the past because they have consistently been the most loyal & supportive of all the well-supported Clubs WITHOUT seeing any success on the field - all these complaints about the fans are from people who are ; 1 Too easily-satisfied 2.Have a Boys Own vision of misplaced Gang-loyalty. People pay BIG money for Season Tickets , Merchandise etc and when they see themselves being exploited they have every right to complain - they ARE the customer, and you can bet your last penny that Ashley, of all people, will be well aware of THAT... It will all take time, but given a couple more decent signings, a place in the Top 6 IS achieveable.

With the story about Tevez & Manure, it seems to me that only Huntelaar falls into the 'shock the football world' category - Ronaldinho & Eto look unbuyable at this time... Unless Fergie is going to replace Rooney with Tevez...!!! Of course, it could be a defender.....

Agree, Guiness - will be difficult to prise him away from Chelsea but would be a great signing, even at 8m ; LB is our No 1 problem position now, and we cannot have Babayaro there next season ; opposition managers would target him as a weakness in every game. I suspect that if we get Bridge it will be because Mourinhno suspects his long-term fitness will not hold up, but his signing would give Sam time to work on Edgar...

Half-right - you need BOTH, but the team takes precedence ; anyone who doubts that should look at Sheffield Weds & what happened when they put ground before team... Personally, I wouldn't care if Ashley had to move to get a much bigger stadium once things start rolling & success arrives - we lost hugely when the Leazes Park project was downed, and even if it meant going over the river(which would concentrate the Council's minds hugely.!!)we should consider it if it means keeping up with Man U, Liverpool etc.

The appointment of Allardyce has given me more hope for the success of the team than any since SBR. The bonus is that Shepherd's power has been stripped from him, and that Sam will be give a real chance to put his thorough methods into action, together with some signings which look 100% improvement than those of the past few years - certainly in value for money. It now looks as if the Club will have a totally professional approach both on & off the field - something that was even lacking in KKs/SBRs day(KK would not allow any training except 5-a-side, SBR allowed too much licence to players), and once Ashley is satisfied things are going OK, we can expect to see one or two really exciting signings. However, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will NUFC be, even with Ashley's money..

I agree with you 100% - it will sour the whole takeover joy for me if this overrated , overpaid, spoilt and petulant trouble-maker remains at SJP - UNLESS Sam plays him in the Reserves....

I wish people would stop saying that - Shepherd only ever denied a clause allowing Owen to leave after 12 months - he actually confirmed that there were 'clauses' in his contract, like most other top players - even commenting that Shearer had clauses in his. Though obviously he has never said what these clauses were for. No-one (Shepherd, the managers, or Owen himself) has ever denied the existence of a figure/european qualification fee specific release clause. These are just weasel words - you are not a Lawyer, by any chance....!! Why not just say that he HAS an escape clause of we fail to qualify for European football ? The reason is, that its STILL an escape clause - if it walks like an elephant, trumpets, is greay & has big ears, it IS an elephant....!!! True or false? Just a one word answer pls, PM - I mean......

Nobody has tried to argue about the wasted money theme of this article. Mainly because its utterly futile to argue about such a completely flimsy concept. "Why are people getting there backs up"? Because the article is full of complete bollocks and bias, if you can't see that then you haven't read it.. The article ISN'T bollocks at all - most of these players have been a complete waste of space, AND - much worse - an insult to the supporters with either their attitude or lack of talent. You have to question the reasons why some were signed in the first place - the phrase 'accommodating Agents' comes to mind.... The only really good player on the list is Hamann - and he WAS good ; problem was that he fell out with Gullit , and as the writer says, found out most of the others were'nt good(although when he left, he stated that 'the Board was average, so the club was average' - take your pick. Sorry, but 'shooting the messenger'doesn't cover up the shambolic way the club made sigmings in the past - hopefully, that is mostly behind us now....

These clauses - denied by the Chairman when asked at the time of Owen's signing - remind me of Blair's recent sell-out to the EU at his last fling there last week - he denies he's given anything away, then you find out later that he's done EXACTLY that, but its too late to do anything about it(except emigrate, in the case of the EU thing..!!). We all knew these things would come back to haunt us, and if BOTH of these opt-outs happen, it makes it a much harder job for Allardyce to put together a team capable of achieveing UEFA Cup football slot next season. I wouldn't mind much if Martins went provided Owen stays, as I think Owen would do really well beside Viduka, but if BOTH go, we've got a problem. Even a front 2 of Viduka/Smith, ir Viduka/Gudjohnsen(slightly better)would not br full of goals, so we would need midfieldersto score at least 20 between them to make an impact...