merlin

Looking for positives from relegation is like saying that at least you get a sensation of flying as you fall over a cliff... The end result of both can be totally disastrous and a club like NUFC should NEVER be in danger of relegation with PL status being so important. Relegation clauses are usually balanced in the player's favour anyway to persuade them to sign in the first place - I wouldn't sign one at NUFC UNLESS it guaranteed me an escape route should the club go down because Ashley's desire to invest in the club when necessary is far from guaranteed.

The answer to that is that it would depend on who was brought in to replace Pardew - which probably means Cabaye would be on his bike, but I reckon he will anyway, whether its Jan or Summer.

You say this like they haven't spent over a £1 billion in the last few years. Them beating us today means nothing in the bigger picture as they've cheated while we've tried to do it the right way. Of course, with this being football, cheaters always prosper but we gave them a good game today which few expected. Did you actually read all my post ? I actually stated that the match illustrated the change in fortunes between the 2 clubs over the past 10 years....that also includes their takeover and subsequent investment. And just how do you justify the statement that NUFC are doing it 'the right way' whilst they are cheating ? Did you think KK and SJH were cheating when we were outspending Man U and Arsenal in the mid-90s ? I bet you felt like chucking your ST when we paid a record fee for Shearer...! I hope you feel vindicated then, if we don't spend a fortune on players in order to stay up next month...

I don't care about all the stuff he gets stick for - he could walk down Northumberland St with a daffodil up his a--e for all I care if he was managing NUFC and doing as well as he did with Spurs. Before we get all holier-than-thou about Redknapp's personal drawbacks, it should be remembered that Pardew isn't exactly whiter-than-white when it comes to personal failings...allegedly...!

This match could and should have been over as a contest after 35 minutes. They sat back, waited for the initial gust of wind(I won't say 'hurricane..!)to blow itself out and then picked us off like Man U did. Nasri absolutely tortured us down the right and frankly, it was a delight to see the quick passing, tight control and constant movement off the ball by their forwards and m/f when they came forward at us....reminded me of how we used to play under KK and how the fortunes of the 2 clubs have changed since we beat them in the FA Cup under SBR nearly 10 years ago. We have lost to them in 6 PL matches and Pardew has never out-witted Mancini. We only really began to have a go at them with any conviction once Nasri went off because they lost a fair bit of forward guile and movement after that. Even then, they should have been out of sight by HT and the goal we pulled back through Ba being first to Colo's return punt into the area bore no comparison to the ones they crafted after tearing us to shreds. The difference in investment between the 2 sides was obvious, but even worse was the way they set about playing football as opposed to our pedestrian efforts ...only Anita could say that he had a case for getting into their squad, let alone the first team, because he at least tried to play passing constructive football. Aguero and Tevez put Ba and Cisse to shame with their speed of thought and contol..neither is a big guy but they caused our defence far more problems than our statuesque pair up front did to theirs. The worrying thing about all this is that City are not generally playing as well as last season but even allowing for that, they had far too much for us. Cabaye, Saylor and HBA in the side might have made it closer, but we would still have lost - they were NEVER in danger of losing and we never really looked like getting an equalizer. We have fallen a long way as a club over the past 10 years and this match just highlighted that fact....we have better attendances than City as a rule, but their fans won't care about that. At the moment their future looks assured whereas ours will look very tricky indeed if we fail to beat QPR next week. Football has a habit of surpising people, but as a general rule, you end up in the league position the club deserves....the fans, of course, are excluded from that. The next 3 weeks promise to be VERY interesting......

Pleased for Hughton - had my doubts that he would ever be a really top manager, but he didn't deserve to be fired when he was....people on here keep claiming that Pardew needs 'more time, finished 5th last time'..blah blah, but they forget that Hughton brought us straight back up and we were in a respectable position in December...has Pardew got the club into a respectable position this December, 2 years after he joined ? Not sure whether Hughton will do really great things with Norwich but they certainly won't have any complaints about him right now and they are a club with far lower expectations that NUFC should have so if they finish top 10 they will be delighted. How many on here would be gloating about Hughton if Norwich were now in our position ? Seems to me its the Norwich fans who should be laughing...

Despite all of the undeserved mockery Redknapp gets on this site, he has undeniably made a difference to QPR...yes, there is the new manager syndrome, but no-one can deny that his record over the years is generally good with most of his clubs. This will be far from easy and the only thing going for us is that we are playing them before Christmas....there is no doubt in my mind that Redkapp will be allowed to spend money in Jan and we have no such guarantee at SJP. Redknapp will sign some decent players and in cases where they have to, they will pay higher wages to get their men than we will. If we do anything less than pick up 3 points, we are well and truly in the relegation scrap...if they win, we will be a fair bet to be in the mire right up to April because we aint going to pick up many points in the month after this game and we may lose players in January...it will also now be doubly hard to sign quality players, even if Ashley is willing to pay the necessary, because they won't want to join a side likely to go down. It goes without saying that we need to win this - this IS a make or break game in my view and bearing in mind Pardew's unwanted record of never having managed us to a PL win after being behind, you can see why... As Fergie once famously said...'its sqeaky bum time..'!

Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious. Is it? Which players? You tell me which ones are......Ba and Cisse clearly aren't, neither was Cabaye before his injury, Tiote is shadow of the player he was when he arrived and Colo is a pro but doing just what is professionally necessary...need I go on ? No doubt you see things differently, but we aint going to agree.

Many of them clearly aren't playing for him - that much is obvious.

The main problem is two-fold ; Pardew has demonstrated,at least for me, that he isn't going to cut the mustard as a topclass manager - that much is obvious by the constant below-par performances he gets from players who should be doing better added to the one-dimensional style of play which doesn't produce many chances. The second part of the problem is that the people above him clearly have NO idea of how to run a football club the size of NUFC - they have demonstrated this time and again by their stupid decisions and a transfer policy which has been myopic at best and niggardly at worst. Pardew is performing to type if you look back at his record with other clubs, but the crux of the matter is that very few fans trust the owner/MD to be able to replace him with anyone better....that is why he still hasn't really come in for flak from the fans, but I have no doubt that a series of bad performances/defeats over the next few games is going to change all that. Given that both manager and board suit each other for differing reasons, we are unlikely to see him fired unless we are rooted in the bottom 3 by mid-Jan...even then, there is little chance that anyone decent would be either available or want the job, esp if the Jan transfer money has been spent so I reckon we are stuck with the situation for the foreseeable future. There is a chance - a good chance - that this mess will lead to relegation and at the very least, the better players wanting to leave the club...some of them undoubtedly do already.

Depends how long it takes you to learn....West Ham, Charlton, Saints, NUFC.... Definition of madness is repeating the same ineffectual action over and over again....

As I said on another thread, he would do well at a bigger club with more resources after getting his experience at smaller clubs, but the fact that he turned Liverpool down probably means that we would have next to no chance of getting him if Pardew went....apart from the fact that he would face the same parsimonious budgets as Pardew, Whelan would do everything in his power to thwart such a move because of his history with Ashley - he won't have forgotten how he was stitched up by him... Unless things pick up at the Emirates, I reckon he has a good chance of taking over from Wenger if the latter decides to call it a day, or is eased upstairs ; Man C is another possibility if they fall away later in the season and even a return to Spain if, for example, Mourinho leaves is not beyond the bounds of possibility.

Very much this. Despite us having better players it suprised me how much wigan tried to play it on the floor even with ten. Anita had a very good game for me and looks better with every game. This - good post. Anita will become a real asset once he totally adjusts to the PL game and pace...look how poor Colo was in his first season. Anita has good control, finds space off the ball and never stops trying. Marveaux is comfortable in possession and that's why he looks better than most of the players. I am still to be convinced that he will be a regular because he is not keen on the Physical side of the PL and he is older than Anita but he did well tonight. Better approach to the game in first half and we were somewhat fortunate with the pen...I don't think we'd have had a chance of it if we'd been at most away grounds, and the sending off for their player clearly took the pressure off us. Second half was getting tediously close to the crap stuff we have watched in the past few games, but Bigirimana's fine goal took the dross off it - this boy is going to be a good player and the way he created the space for the shot was excellent. Not convinced by Ba and Cisse together, and one will undoubtedly be on the move before long, most probably Ba and I think that with the right replacement we could look a different side. Neither of these players can hold up the ball when its played up to them and both prefer to try and blind-side defenders by their runs so we need a good target man. Pleased we got the points but there are tougher battles ahead and we need to be out of trouble by mid-Jan or Pardew will be under the cosh again. It was obious to any watcher that Martinez' teams play better football and that with better players, ours included, he would be producing quality sides. You can see why Liverpool wanted him but the fact that he turned them down(and other factors)mean that he is unlikely to want to leave Wigan for SJP.

Try and catch Adrian Durham one day If there was an award for the biggest prat on Radio, Durham would win it every year - I have yet to hear anyone spout as much rubbish whilst getting paid. He even gives Peterborough fans a bad name by being one of them....what a jerk.

Easier on the eye, and far more effective than the hit and hope stuff being dished out in previous games....why has he had to come under so much presssure from fans and results before taking action to utilise the players' skills better ? I never thought tonight's result would decide Pardew's fate unless we took a real tonking because the board are in a corner ... for now. Even so, we have a tough programme between now and mid-Jan, so I reckon the jury is still out on his fate. Get bombed out of the Cup again by Brighton and hovering near bottom 3 by mid-Jan and I reckon the pressure will be back on big-time. In the meantime, we can be grateful for small mercies and enjoy a few days breathing space...

A better game to watch with more constructive football instead of the hoofing from the back as has been the case - why has he had to be put under so much pressure by fans/results before any action to correct the route 1 stuff was taken ? I n

I agree - see what I mean about how easily the board have managed to reduce fans' expectations ? I would never make that comment in a million years - but then, I am old enough to remember us finishing 2nd twice AND actually winning something....

This - I made my mind up finally about Ashley after he skimped on the summer transfers and then added insult to injury by throwing money at the Scottish lower division side who had been demoted through financial irregularities. This is just about his level - a chancer and bluffer who capitalises on others' misfortunes. He will be sweating buckets now because once again, as with the KK saga and the sacking of Hughton, it has come back to bite him on his very generous posterior - he appointed Pardew for reasons not entirely clear, then, when the guy managed a decent season with some players spotted by a good scout, he fails to build on that success and leaves his 'manager of the year' high and dry. The players, who had given everything to finish 5th, see that the new arrivals they expected fail to materialise and some are no doubt disappointed.... He then gives him an 8 year contract and is rewarded by the team going into freefall, some of which is undoubtedly down to a parsimonious transfer window and a manager proving to be tactically limited - you couldn't make it up. I supported his policy of signing young quality players - but NOT at the expense of building on a side which had just finished 5th and qualified for Europe - the investment in Glasgow Rangers just topped it all off. I was grateful that he took over from Shepherd and stabilized the club financially - but that is the past and he didn't stand still when building his OWN business...ask Whelan ! If we lose on Monday, I reckon we'll see how good a chancer he is !

I speak as I find, we were unlucky tonight because we did enough to get something from the game. I'm not bothered about what has happened in the past because that's gone. We need points and for the first time in 4 games we looked as if we could get something from a game. I couldn't give a s*** about Pardew, I only care about the club and I'll slate him when it's needed but not for the sake of it. Tonight I'm positive and gutted at the same time. I think that's fair enough Mick. I think he's a clueless manager, but we can cling onto the hope he's still got the dressing room. Lets get behind the lads on Monday. Yep, both fair comments - we will find out if he's lost the Dressing Room after Monday... I reckon Ba could be some part of the problem but I am not convinced that Pardew will be a success long term........

We know what you think - you already posted this same comment on the thread for the match.... 'Grateful applause..?' Was that from the Stoke fans !?

Haven't seen the game yet, so won't comment on the performance - fact remains, though , that its another defeat and to a poor team after being in front. This sort of result, coming on top of the bad run already seen, can only end up one way unless stopped quickly and that is in relegation. The Wigan game is now absolutely crucial and if another defeat occurs in that, action is going to have to be taken to stop the rot, although what Ashley will decide to do is anyone's guess...he probably hasn't a clue himself !

Bad spell i can deal with, bullshit statements and complete contradiction of himself, and the putrid football, i bloody well cant and wont put up with. He needs to stop blaming everything and look at his tactics which are woeful, yet he ploughs on with them regardless. Set Penises........explain them to me......18 months and he has done nothing about them at all. I'm not saying I can explain everything, or that he doesn't deserve criticism. I'm just saying that a lot of stuff that has happened this season (not just to us) has shown me just how extremely short-termist a lot of fans can be. Obviously we should be discussing what he can/should do better, but it shouldn't be in the context of sacking him IMO. I get the short term kneejerk stuff but thats not why i've had my fill of Pardew. It was his Radio Newcastle interview and the "you need to control the midfield" and "we will be doing something about our set pieces". Both of those have turned out to be utter bullshit, and everything he has tried to do with the team, system, formation, tactics have been the complete opposite of what he spewed out. I'm worried as he seems intent on not changing from what isn't working. That and telling us we didn't play 4-4-2 against Swansea as if we are thick as pig s***. I mean after playing and watching football for the last 35 years i know nothing of a formation or tactic. Mind you i'm supposed to grateful according to Pardew, aren't i ? Thing is, if he played this "system" because he believed in it, he would have come out and said so by now. He would have been brave enough to ask the fans to be patient and trust that this "system" will bear fruit eventually. There's no "system" to speak of though, and even commentators have struggled lately to figure out what it is we're trying to do. There isn't any part of what we do, that we actually do well. If we were coming out with 0-0 draws all over the place, one would think "Well at least we defend pretty well". Alternatively it's not like we're creating bucketloads of chances that we simply can't finish. There is the absolute sum of ZERO about our play at the moment, and this is the most worrying thing. This is something I have been meaning to ask those who actually go and see NUFC; Can they identify something that he is actually trying to achieve?? I haven't heard one comment which tells me there is something he is attempting to get the team playing, despite the poor performances. Speculation is that there will be a lot of clauses in his 8 year contract. Perhaps one of those clauses could be he is on thin ice if the team loses four league games on the trot? Just a thought. One thing I reckon Ashley and Dekka are doing now is looking around for alternatives. With the blinkers they will be wearing and the criteria they will use, I think you'll find that their choices will be somewhat limted - probably to Championship hopefuls.....

He's always been good at talking a good game - the proof of the pudding will be in the eating....

They really should read what they type, one mentions somebody having a go at them which is probably me and I wasn't. I was saying what was said when I lived near Stoke, they then go on to admit some want Pulis out which backs up what I said. They then call us deluded because some want Pardew out then claim that he's basically a crap manager. Stoke fans are hardly the brightest tools in the box - let's face it they haven't had a decent team since Matthews was playing for them....sort of OK in the 70s when they had Greenhoff ,McIlroy and our cast off Eastham playing for them as well as Gordon Banks until he got injured, but they could never match our support and, like many PL teams who draw less than we do, they are jealous of the fact that at least we had a spell in the 90s when we really WERE a top side and they were - and still are - crap. Not that we are any better right now, and probably won't be until Ashley sells to someone even richer, but we will always have the potential of being a regular Top 6 side....they never will.....

I bet he isn't. That was an interesting debate. Many managers are, or were - they negotiate a percentage of any profit mad on a player signed under their regime. Clough had this, and the Radio Newcastle phone in team were once asked by a knowledgable caller whether KK was after he sold Huckerby. They huffed and puffed, saying it was 'none of the fans' business' about KK's contract, but they never actually tried to deny it.....