Happy Face

Jesus wept tbh. Of course no-one could tell because brother was on a mahogany cross.

So we're all in agreement. If we were run properly and paid a manager properly and weren't seen as a joke we could easily attract a good man and top sponsors and sell tickets/boxes at the going rate. But we aren't so we can't. If Ashley was so inclined there's no limit on what we could do. He's not. So we're a second rate club with a second rate manager, second rate sponsors, second rate prices and third rate dof.

Everton pay their manager 10 times what Newcastle do. Martinez wasn't "available" either, they paid millions to release him from his Wigan contract. Ashley would never show that ambition.

I said as much yesterday.... That view is not mutually exclusive from the one that Ashley is running us as a second rate club, whatever we would like to see him do.

Newcastle in the early 2000s were a big brand with turnover to match. As the decade wore on we kept trying to spend our way to the top but our performance didn't match. Ashley bought a top brand that was struggling financially. Like he does with all struggling brands he buys, he does not try to restore their former glory. Rather he applies his own cheap methods to drive costs down while retaining the name that can sell. Every season that Ashley keeps hold of the club, the brand is chepened more. It is not the brand it was when he bought it. The club as it is could not attract Sir Bobby Robson, it can't attract top sponsors or players or sell it's corporate boxes. We have the cheapest tickets in the country, just to keep stadium approaching the capacity it could have doubled a decade ago. If I went on a diet and used a bit of moisturiser i could be an oil painting. Newcastle could be too, but it will never be while Ashley is running the show.

No, he wants to be a big club, but he wants to do it on the cheap. If he wanted a 2nd rate club he could have bought any amount of smaller London clubs like QPR or Fulham when they were up for sale. He wants the glamour and high profile of a club like Newcastle, but he doesn't want to pay for it. Not that different to what he's done to former big brands under his umbrella at SD with the likes of Donnay and Lonsdale. You say that as if Donnay and Lonsdale are not second rate sports brands. Donnay was quite a high quality brand at one time, especially in the tennis world. Lonsdale I don't know that much about, but generally that's the SD business model, to buy brands that are struggling and incorporate them into his stores. If you look at the other football club he's trying to buy - Rangers - it fits the same profile. Big name club down on it's luck. Why doesn't he buy Luton or Watford if he needs a second rate club closer to home? Because he buys top brands and turns them into cheap tat. People who aren't paying attention think they're getting a good brand, those actually watching know it's cheap shite.

World cup season. No time for le sulk.

No, he wants to be a big club, but he wants to do it on the cheap. If he wanted a 2nd rate club he could have bought any amount of smaller London clubs like QPR or Fulham when they were up for sale. He wants the glamour and high profile of a club like Newcastle, but he doesn't want to pay for it. Not that different to what he's done to former big brands under his umbrella at SD with the likes of Donnay and Lonsdale. You say that as if Donnay and Lonsdale are not second rate sports brands.

TBF, our chairman's goal seems to be that we are a second rate cub.

Do you reckon Pardew's stock in the football world is higher or lower than when he got the job with us? Genuine question. It was on the floor when he started and it's not much better now although having the likes of Remy, Ba, Cabaye and Ben Arfa to work with at a massive club has obviously improved his profile. I can't see him ever getting a job at another big club though, and that's because his limits have been exposed here. Tbf, Mascherano and Tevez are better than any of them players so he had worked with world class players elsewhere....and totally failed.

Not suggesting Carr should be sacked. He's done a fine job at what he's asked to do. But I'm not aware of any other club scouts getting interviewed for telly and radio and getting write ups in the US press for revolutionising scouting.

Do you reckon Pardew's stock in the football world is higher or lower than when he got the job with us? Genuine question.

Wouldn't say he ruins players, he just doesn't get enough of them playing to their maximum potential, holds them back somewhat. The most frustration seems to be about Ben Arfa, but at Newcastle he's outdone his performance at either of his previous clubs in terms of end product. I think he's frustrating more than anyone else around him. Cabaye's slotted back in to the team putting in man of the match shows following what could have been a disastrous transfer fandango. The most frustrating thing with him is his woeful corners. Perhaps 1 day a week should be spent on corner routines to ensure we get a runner in front of the near post defender because Cabaye seems incapable of beating him. Or we should play them short. But I don't buy into the massive importance of scoring from corners that everyone else does. All the new signings are finding their feet in a new league so think it's harsh to judge them. Coloccini has made mistakes but still looks largely class if whoever he's alongside isn't totally losing the plot. Santon is still a bairn and needs to get the attack/defend balance right. Cisse has been provided better this season than he was all last season, he has failed to convert the chances he should be scoring. Anita has looked better than Tiote and kept Tiote out of the team temporarily. Which seemed to be the kick up the arse Tiote needed in the first half against Cardiff which was his best no-nonsense display in months...but which he failed to keep up for the full 90 minutes. Remy has been a beast....

Aye. Arsenal, Man U and Man City are 3 of their next 4. Soz Chris. You're done for.

Interested to hear examples of players that Pardew has ruined?

There is no correlation whatsoever between the needs of the team/squad and the players we buy. it's just not part of the criteria that we would go and chase strikers and pay an extra million or two to make sure we had the position covered. But Pardew knew that when he took the job and has never once complained about it.

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value? Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that. But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? Just Hull and Southampton? Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew? I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke. Have any of his signings been consistent enough? Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them? Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal. No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for. Pardew makes players worse. Very unfair to point the finger at Carr for buying players with extremely good pedigree that the manager is then unable to get the best out of. Thought he got more out of Ba for us than Mourinho has done at Chelsea.

http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/223899/article_df45f78049d4446e_1372162130_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value? Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that. But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? Just Hull and Southampton? Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew? I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke. Have any of his signings been consistent enough? Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them? Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal. No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value? Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that. But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? Just Hull and Southampton?

It's a simplistic view. Half the battle for a Newcastle manager is saying the right things publicly. We often hate to hear it, but someone like Keegan could not keep the powder keg of a power struggle at bay with Kinnear and Ashley or ensure Ashley isn't irked by financial demands being made on him. Call Pardew a spineless, slimy, yes-man, but he does what's required to keep the non-football machinations at bay. On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

Very sensible post! Would we be willing to accept the risk of an up and coming manager (only type likely to take job), not yet proven in the prem (although you could argue quite the same regards Percy), who would accept a shoestring budget and players being sold without his permission and the rest of the bullshift that comes with Fatboy and his sycophant jester? I think it's a massive risk for little reward. The very most it seems people are hoping for is that we push the top 7 and play with a bit more attacking verve, without collectively shitting ourselves once we concede. Is that really a prize worth all the upheaval? The increased entropy a new manager brings to a club, especially an Ashley appointment, is just as likely to worsen the situation (more likely?) as improve it. Obviously if Pardew ever has us hopelessly entrenched within the bottom 5, I would recalibrate the risks/rewards involved with keeping or losing him. But that's never been an issue so far.

Pardew improve? Unlikely. Ashley appoint a good manager? Unlikely. The only question that I would ask is which course of action is more dangerous for the club? Allowing Pardew to plot our mediocre survival or Ashley taking it upon himself to have another go at change? Given the histories of the two men, i still think Pardew's hands are a safer bet than Ashley's.

So if your lass serves a turd on a plate you'll happily eat it without complaining if she has nothing better to feed you with? You obviously missed the analogies I made with my wife earlier in the thread. Absolutely she's shite at some stuff. But I'm no oil painting so I take what I can get.

I don't understand why supporters slag Ameobi off when he's played and we only had the likes of Ranger on the bench. Fair enough to criticise when the alternative is an improvement. Otherwise its just a case of cwying and cwying until you're blue in the face.