Wandy

But if the PL lose the arb then they are on record as saying the takeover will definitely be passed. Ashley then has no incentive to drop the CAT after that. If they settle before ARB though they can avoid the damages.

2 minutes ago, Dokko said:

If I say nufc aren't going to win every week then I'm going to be about 71% correct.

 

He's just hedging his bets, which tbf is logical enough. There is no inside info or journalism involved  though. Let's not confuse those points.

Yeah he's just doing the same as everyone else and looking at MBS' role within PIF and drawing a conclusion. But really, how can our legal team show separation when  MBS is so intrinsically linked with the PIF? It look nigh on impossible to me.

He's a complete prick but unfortunately, apart from Mauriss, he's got everything correct so far. And he's very likely to be correct about our chances of winning the arbitration too. We really are up against it.

Ah, we might as well forget about what happened yesterday as Simon Jordan says its still not going to happen... https://talksport.com/football/953778/newcastles-takeover-saudi-arabias-public-investment-fund-simon-jordan/

14 minutes ago, TK-421 said:

 

But surely if the burden of proof is on the PL, then we would have had even more ammunition to blame the PL for the delays, if they were supposed to prove a direct link, and couldn't, yet still hadn't made a decision on the takeover?

 

That's why I thought it has always been on the buyers to prove the separation, and the PL have not been satisfied with the evidence (or whatever was submitted), hence the non-decision?

Or maybe we do have the ammunition for a legal dispute, but we can't do anything or protest about anything to do with the actual ODT itself whilst undertaking it. It's their test and they can do what they want with it, unless we challenge it legally.

2 minutes ago, deejeck said:

Still chuckling at the judge totally pieing off and laughing at Lewis' argument of not having enough time to prepare both cases.

Jowell was absolutely pissing himself at that. Wish we could have got a snippet of it as it would have made for a canny meme. 

1 minute ago, BennyBlanco said:

Really? 
 

Surely though if the premier league accused the Saudis/PIF of colluding in piracy, for example, then they would have to prove this accusation. Seems arse backwards that you can accuse someone of something and that the accused has to be the one who has to fuck about refuting the accusations.

 

If the premier league think that the Saudis and PIF are de facto the same entity it should be on them to explain why they think this.

Agree. They surely can't just say "we think MBS will be the person running the show, now prove to us that he wont". They have to be the ones that prove that MBS would be controlling things.

The whole thing is so fucked up though that I wont be surprised if the burden is actually on the buyers. 

22 minutes ago, TK-421 said:

 

I believe its the former, PIF have to prove they are separate from the Saudi State. Its not on the PL to prove the link, They are happy just to sit and keep saying they (PIF) need to prove separation, and the can gets kicked along again.

 

However, had there not been claims over the last year or so that declarations had been hand delivered from the Saudi Royal family, stating as such, which clearly hasn't been enough to satisfy the PL (yet).

 

 

 

Is it not simply the case that the burden of proof was only on the Saudis to get past the ODT? But when in court the burden of proof switches to the PL?

With Beloff on that panel I still think the PL will fancy their chances and won't be backing down....unless the burden of proof falls to them.

With the arbitration...is it a case of the Saudis having to prove to the tribunal panel that the state is separate to PIF?

Or is it a case of the PL having to prove to the panel that the state and PIF are one and the same?

In other words, who has the burden of proof?

Jowell did well there IMO. Fingers tightly crossed this gets the go ahead now.

They really, really dont want the CAT to go ahead. If this gets put on hold until arb happens I can actually see the arb going our way.

Nice rebuttal from the judge there. Jowell enjoyed that, lol.

Can this run on into tomorrow? It doesn't seem like our team will have much time to present their case?

Lewis stating that if the PL lose the arbitration then the takeover will go ahead. Of course, they would say that though.......

Daniel Jowell is not impressed like. 

Lewis is arguing that SJHL and NUFC are one and the same and, to be honest, it sounds convincing. I hope DeMarco has got something good in his locker as he is going to need it.

22 minutes ago, Scoot said:

It's the disclosure of evidence stage that could see the PL looking to settle the case. That stage comes much quicker than the actual hearing itself. 

I don't understand why that is a reason for hope. All that will happen there is the club claim "we have evidence of the PL doing X, Y & Z. The PL then respond with "we refute all of the club's allegations, see you in court". Meanwhile, the national media will barely give the story a paragraph of exposure.

3 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

The Athletic article is missing a trick though. Ashley will go ahead with the CAT case regardless of whether the Saudi’s have walked or not, this is his insurance policy to get paid.

 

So even if the case won’t be heard for a while, if the judge rules that the court does indeed have the jurisdiction to do this, the PL will suddenly be exposed. The disclosure of evidence will happen much sooner and that will be things the club can use in early 2022 in the arbitration while also being something that PL can’t allow to happen as it’s clear they have something to hide.

 

To say it’s over is jumping the gun in my opinion. It’s about risk assessment, would allowing the Saudis into the club pose less risk than all of this potential info coming out?

The arbitration is merely about separation. What could be used from the CAT that is relevant to that question?

The arbitration does not deal with anything to do with the PL acting anti-competitively.

2 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

I think we're stuck in purgatory for the foreseeable, Ashley doesn't back down, he known for "parking the tanks" until he gets his way. It either plays out or it'll take something like the CAT judge refusing to throw the case out for the PL to fold. Like a staring contest between two snakes, no one wins here, least of all us.

Even if it goes ahead, the PL will not fold until right at the death. Which could be years away. The Saudis will not wait that long, we just are not that important. They will move on to the Italian league.

1 minute ago, Doctor Zaius said:

Anyone got that Athletic article? Need something to hammer it home how dead this is.

 I can paste if allowed.

1 minute ago, Bishops Finger said:

I'm not putting another penny into football when/if this takeover falls through. Ashley hasn't had a penny out of me since Rafa left and I haven't had sky or bt for ages. I'm already 99 percent out. Just need that final push. Won't even watch the world Cup. I need to wash my hands with the whole lot

Likewise. I'm hanging around here for a few weeks more in the faintest of hopes that a deal is done before the summer window closes. Not going to happen of course, but may as well hang on for a few weeks more.

If the CAT gets the green light I will check the thread updates in page 1 from time to time for any developments. But really, there is nothing to discuss on this topic anymore. The only thing either of the two threads on here will be good for will be Twitter ITK bullshit.

3 minutes ago, Kanji said:

But the league have no interest in allowing Newcastle United become a powerhouse with the arguably the deepest pockets in football. 

Yes. And for that reason I don't know how any longstanding NUFC fan can continue to follow the game after this.

Below is from The Athletic....

"Could the CAT break the logjam?

In theory, yes.

In practice, nobody knows because sports disputes very rarely end up in CATs. This partly explains why the judge has given the league two extensions to gather evidence for its request to have the case thrown out because the tribunal does not have the jurisdiction for disputes such as this.

We await the judge’s ruling on this matter but if anyone thinks this tribunal is a shortcut to a takeover, they could be in for a further disappointment. As of today, there is only one hearing scheduled in July before a summer break. The next set of dates for case management conferences are in October and the three cases in question started in 2018.

There are 105 active cases on the tribunal’s diary list — only one is newer than Newcastle’s.

What does this mean for Newcastle on the field in 2021-22?

In all likelihood that Ashley will remain owner for the vast majority of the season. At least."

104th in a list of 105 cases.  This will take years to resolve and the Saudis simply won't wait that long. It's over.

The article in The Athletic is grim. This is simply never going to happen. Consider me fully back in the pessimistic camp.

If a supposedly "simple" process like arbitration can be continuously kicked down the road so often and for so long, then it's not unreasonable to assume that the CAT could literally be years away.